Comet LNER TSO Gresley / Thompson

[drgj]

I was hoping to find a Thompson tourist open coach in the Comet range but couldn't see one. There is a Gresley version but I would prefer a Thompson. I wonder if any other manufacturer does one in 4mm ?

 

Thanks

Dave

[Portchullin Tatty]

Try Mousa Models although I think there are delivery problems at the moment.

 

https://mousa-models.co.uk/product-category/4mm/4-coaches/coach_sides/liner/page/2/

 

Bill only does sides, so you will need to source the rest from Comet or MJT.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget they were originally Thirds rather than Seconds. Second Open is a later term.

 

Southern Pride do a few Thompson coach sides. Designed to fit the Bachmann RTR but are a direct fit with Comet parts.

 

There's RTO D350 in both square and radius window forms.

 

Under "Conversion Kits"

 

http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/

 

Some more details on the Third Opens here.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/360-lner-thompson-kitchen-and-dining-cars

 

 

Jason

Edited December 26, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[Mallard60022]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget they were originally Thirds rather than Seconds. Second Open is a later term.

 

Southern Pride do a few Thompson coach sides. Designed to fit the Bachmann RTR but are a direct fit with Comet parts.

 

There's RTO D350 in both square and radius window forms.

 

Under "Conversion Kits"

 

http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/

 

Some more details on the Third Opens here.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/360-lner-thompson-kitchen-and-dining-cars

 

 

Jason

SP etches are truly excellent.

[TheSignalEngineer]

By the Tourist Open I assume you mean the single saloon with 2+2 seating type designed principally for excursion use. The Gresley Teak version was originally Diagram 186 with bucket seats and Diagram 302 for the later batch with more conventional seats. The first Thompson version was Diagram 330 with a similar layout to the D302 but with the seating bays stretched slightly as the body was 2 feet longer. For Dining use the last version was the Diagram 350 which was similar to the Diagram 330 externally but 2+1 seating in two saloons and a single lavatory compartment on the 2-seat side. A few of the latter were built with pressure ventilation for the Flying Scotsman sets. 

I think a good representation of the Diagram 330 could be made from the Diagram 350 with the addition of an extra toilet window vent

[drgj]

Thanks for the two new replies. Yes i noticed that only the d350 Thompson seems to be available and was wondering if there was much difference between the two opens.  Thanks for pointing out the differences. 

 

Dave

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've had a look at the Southern Pride site and their Diagram 350 RTO looks like the ones built for the Flying Scotsman with the underframe skirts. It looks as if they actually made the oval windows to match Diagram 330.

 

There is a picture of one partly built on the website

http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/

 

Click on "Conversion Kits" the "Bachmann LNER/BR Thompson" from the menus on the left side

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer

[micklner]

Easy conversions using Bachmann bases.

 

Scotsman

 

[micklner]

Re Comet sides, I tried one against the lastest Bachmann Thommo's and the sides are 1mm too low , not a lot but a real pain to try and hide.

[TheSignalEngineer]

6 minutes ago, micklner said:

Easy conversions using Bachmann bases.

 

Scotsman

 

The pictures show up the deep sides on the Scotsman version very well.

[Clive Mortimore]

The basic body of a Thomo TTO.

 

Cut and shut from old Tri-ang carriages. A turnunder has been filed on the lower half, the slight curvature of the upper half doesn't show too much. A new roof and ends from plastic card. 

 

There are always many ways to achieve the same thing.

[micklner]

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The basic body of a Thomo TTO.

 

Cut and shut from old Tri-ang carriages. A turnunder has been filed on the lower half, the slight curvature of the upper half doesn't show too much. A new roof and ends from plastic card. 

 

There are always many ways to achieve the same thing.

Have you any photos of any finished and  painted Coaches ? .

One obvious problem with cut and shuts, is obtaining level sides to the finished Coach, without losing any moulded details , such as beading where applicable.

In the above photos the body appears to be  thick ,how will you do the glazing ?

[Clive Mortimore]

33 minutes ago, micklner said:

Have you any photos of any finished and  painted Coaches ? .

One obvious problem with cut and shuts, is obtaining level sides to the finished Coach, without losing any moulded details , such as beading where applicable.

In the above photos the body appears to be  thick ,how will you do the glazing ?

No painted ones as yet, new airbrushes and compressor have been obtained and a paint station along with them. One day they will be used. Plus showing a finished coach does not show what is required to make it.

 

Cut and shuts are my chosen method, I have done coach overlays in the past and not been happy with the out come compared to the amount of work involved. We all have our preferred methods and I will not say that mine is the right way for others to do.

 

Glazing Southeast Finecast SE 48 or clear plastic card.

[TheSignalEngineer]

47 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Glazing Southeast Finecast SE 48

I did my old Bachmann Thompsons with SE flushglazing and a black wash round the inside edges.  I also dropped trimmed the top of the gangway connectors, fitted concertina gangways and dropped the ride height of the body a shade to match the height of other stock when in mixed rakes. I'm not sur if the latter issue was due to the bogie/coach interface or the body being a bit too high.

I think they came out quite well at layout viewing distances. This is one coupled to a Hornby Gresley.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Cut and shuts are my chosen method, I have done coach overlays in the past and not been happy with the out come compared to the amount of work involved. We all have our preferred methods and I will not say that mine is the right way for others to do.

I've used both methods in the past. I can do a cut'n'shut or detail modification quite quickly on a suitable donor. I have recently done a design for a Thompson Diagram 330 TTO to be cut from two old-style Bachmann corridor thirds when we can get out to source suitable donors. Until then I will have to do my LMS 57ft Composite Open, the GWR Ambulance Car/Siphon G reversion and LMS Period 1 BTK/CK to Ambulance Car to 57ft BG, for all of which I have the donors. Should keep me occupied - Tier 4 tomorrow!

Then of course when Matt Chivers has finished moulding his LMS Fish Van besides doing one of those I can stretch my Palethorpes vans to the right length if I can get him to sell me three sets of his chassis sprues.

 I could also do with a couple of Hornby donors to do the 50ft Sausage Vans as the Mainline ones I have in stock are too wide in the chassis. They will probably be refurbed for sale. If all else fails I will have to resort to the Maunsell Buffet Car conversion from the Ian Kirk Restaurant Car kit.

I found that overlays on coaches are OK but can take a while to fit all of the bits. That being said I was dead chuffed with seeing my LMS Vestibule excursion set using Comet sides on a variety of donors take to the rails. I'm now working on an LMS Buffet car on a Replica body, a re-sided LMS 60ft BCK on Airfix donor parts, GWR 60ft non-corridor 3rd on Airfix donor and two more Gresley opens but need another Hornby BTK donor for those. 

2021 could be a busy year in the Carriage Shop.

[micklner]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

No painted ones as yet, new airbrushes and compressor have been obtained and a paint station along with them. One day they will be used. Plus showing a finished coach does not show what is required to make it.

 

Cut and shuts are my chosen method, I have done coach overlays in the past and not been happy with the out come compared to the amount of work involved. We all have our preferred methods and I will not say that mine is the right way for others to do.

 

Glazing Southeast Finecast SE 48 or clear plastic card.

That is the main reason I asked re any finished versions , if they turned out to be a poor result. They look like far more work than a simple  etched overlay to me . I presume using a old Triang type Coach , a new underframe etc are also needed as  well.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

That is the main reason I asked re any finished versions , if they turned out to be a poor result. They look like far more work than a simple  etched overlay to me . I presume using a old Triang type Coach , a new underframe etc are also needed as  well.

New underframe will be needed. It is on a shortened Tri-ang chassis with the undergubbins removed, new bits should be hard to make in plastic card.

[davidw]

On 25/12/2020 at 19:14, drgj said:

I was hoping to find a Thompson tourist open coach in the Comet range but couldn't see one. There is a Gresley version but I would prefer a Thompson. I wonder if any other manufacturer does one in 4mm ?

 

Thanks

Dave

Comet do do Dia 330 it's a new release. You'll need to ring to request it.

[davidw]

On 30/12/2020 at 19:24, TheSignalEngineer said:

I did my old Bachmann Thompsons with SE flushglazing and a black wash round the inside edges.  I also dropped trimmed the top of the gangway connectors, fitted concertina gangways and dropped the ride height of the body a shade to match the height of other stock when in mixed rakes. I'm not sur if the latter issue was due to the bogie/coach interface or the body being a bit too high.

I think they came out quite well at layout viewing distances. This is one coupled to a Hornby Gresley.

 

Can you explain furth how you made the Thompson mods. They look very effective. I've an Elizabethan rake and at least a dozen or so others (pre-retool) that I've resided that need the improvements you describe. I'd also like to improve the under frame.

Thanks

[drgj]

Lots of new posts since I last looked.  Thanks to DavidW for spotting the diagram 330 Thompson open that is new to the Comet range.

 

Dave

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 27/01/2021 at 16:37, davidw said:

Can you explain furth how you made the Thompson mods. They look very effective. I've an Elizabethan rake and at least a dozen or so others (pre-retool) that I've resided that need the improvements you describe. I'd also like to improve the under frame.

Thanks

It was a bit of a faff. Had there been any prospect of the re-tooled version being imminent at the time I would never have bothered, just put them on Ebay or something. 

 

These were early models in the original Bachmann boxes with the Mainline type of couplings moulded on to the oldest style bogies and plastic wheels. I think there were already some differences in the bogies on the later ones of these even before the re-tooling.

The solebar height was 1mm too high. I filed down the plastic of the shoulder of the bogie mounting spigot and the ribs sticking out each side of it making sure that the bogie could swing freely without the side frames fouling on the solebars. I think that made the wheel flanges foul of the floor, as I cut four holes to stop them rubbing. If the wheels hit the solebars on your tightest curves the inside of the solebars need to be shaved down to as thin as possible in the area of the wheels. I really don't think I would have done it had the re-tooled version been available. 

 

The easy bits were trimming the top of the gangway connectors to the height of a Comet Pullman gangway end plate etch with a scalpel and adding SEF flush glazing. Gangway connectors were from MB Model Railway Products, who look like they have disappeared as the website no longer works and the person concerned last appeared on here about two years ago. Others are available, I think 7821 on here does some and several other suppliers on the web. I found the easiest way with this type was to use a connector on one coach and a blanking plate on the other. 

 

The body sides of real coaches were regularly cleaned so I weathered by dragging a bit of cloth with a thin black wash down the sides until it had almost all come off just leaving a thin film and accentuating the bits difficult to clean in real life such as the edges of doors and windows. The underframe was sprayed with hair spray and then coated with a mixture of  black and dark rust weathering powder using a stiff stencilling brush until it got to the desired effect.

 

They look fine on the layout but as I said earlier I don't know if I would bother again as I only have three to run in odd ones in mixed rakes and the cost of glazing and re-wheeling plus any sale proceeds would be offset against some of the new ones.  

Edited January 31, 2021 by TheSignalEngineer
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