prodigy Vs NCE powercab

[lwnameplates]

good evening everyone hope you all had a fantastic christmas.

my grandad has shown me his new SLW class 24 and basically i have also decided to buy one and have since found out it has more functions than my dynamis can offer, been the first batch many years ago I'm not surprised i need a upgrade and im now torn between guagemaster and NCE and wish to know others opinions, i am leaning more one way than the other but i will keep it to myself to see what peoples opinions are on this topic?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Which Prodigy system are you looking at,  Prodigy Advance or Prodigy Express ?

It appears both have been out of stock for many months.

 

 

.

[jcm@gwr]

Firstly, I assume that you've had the opportunity to actually try

both options, on a layout, or test track.

Secondly, the general consensus in my circles is that the tech

in the Prodigy is nowhere near as good as the NCE.

[lwnameplates]

hi in reply no i havnt even see one and with situations I.E covid and my health going out  to have a try isn't really a option, its the prodigy advanced im looking at there as i say i have been using a dynamis for well oved a decade so no matter which system it will be a new experience with my know how with tec a frustrating one no matter which option.

[jcm@gwr]

It's not just tech that you have to learn/get to grips with,

we've had issues with the club's* Prodigy, resetting the

chips, and losing their addresses.

 

*we're upgrading to the MERG system shortly!

[lwnameplates]

Just now, jcm@gwr said:

It's not just tech that you have to learn/get to grips with,

we've had issues with the club's* Prodigy, resetting the

chips, and losing their addresses.

 

*we're upgrading to the MERG system shortly!

that is handy to know, my biggest worry is the problem with the NCE system not having short protection and blowing chips or something along them lines.

i may sound stupid here what is the MERG system?

cheers liam

[jcm@gwr]

Model Electronic Railway Group

You can build their system from a kit of electronic components.

[lwnameplates]

Just now, jcm@gwr said:

Model Electronic Railway Group

You can build their system from a kit of electronic components.

just had a quick google and that looks WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY to over my head haha

[jcm@gwr]

But at least you've checked it, and then discounted it, better than

finding out later, and realising it was possibly what you needed,

and was a lot cheaper!

[lwnameplates]

Just now, jcm@gwr said:

But at least you've checked it, and then discounted it, better than

finding out later, and realising it was possibly what you needed,

and was a lot cheaper!

yeh i looked on there website and no doubt what they are doing is cleaver and a high end way of doing it but a little out my expertise, if it takes more than soldering two wires together i get lost haha. but i take my hat off to anyone taking that route on.

[MichaelE]

1 hour ago, lwnameplates said:

that is handy to know, my biggest worry is the problem with the NCE system not having short protection and blowing chips or something along them lines.

i may sound stupid here what is the MERG system?

cheers liam

 

The NCE has short circuit protection. It is internal and resets itself.

 

Documentation in the manual is a jumbled mess. They should have hired a tech writer to organize and verbally explain the various topics about the Powercab.

 

This site has the best information and I have used it frequently. In fact, I haven't opened the manual since finding this site.

 

The NCE Information Station 

[Ron Ron Ron]

8 hours ago, MichaelE said:

 

The NCE has short circuit protection. It is internal and resets itself........

The NCE Information Station 

The NCE information station reiterates warnings and guidance they give, or have previously given elsewhere.....

 

Quote

You MUST use some form of Protection!
The SB5 and Powercab have built in over current sensing for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected.
They do not have manual breakers that will trip or fuses that will blow.  

 

 

NCE recommend the PowerCab should be be used with additional track short circuit protection.

There are documented examples of PowerCabs burning themselves out, where track shorts have been left uncorrected.

.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

To the OP lwnameplates...

There’s a big difference in the track power output capability between the Prodigy Advance and the PowerCab.

The PA should really be compared against the full (normal) NCE system, the Powerhouse Pro, not the cut down, starter PowerCab system.

 

You need to determine what your present and potential future track power requirements are.

 

Both are relatively antiquated DCC systems, with their origins dating from some 20 years ago, lacking some of the more  advanced features that modern DCC systems can offer.

Both have their pros and cons. In some areas the NCE product is supposedly superior.

Personal preferences do vary and differ.

Have a look at alternatives, even if that means spending a bit more to future proof your purchasing decision.

Personally speaking, what what it’s worth, if I was buying a new system today, I wouldn’t consider either of these.

 

 

.

[lwnameplates]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

To the OP lwnameplates...

There’s a big difference in the track power output capability between the Prodigy Advance and the PowerCab.

The PA should really be compared against the full (normal) NCE system, the Powerhouse Pro, not the cut down, starter PowerCab system.

 

You need to determine what your present and potential future track power requirements are.

 

Both are relatively antiquated DCC systems, with their origins dating from some 20 years ago, lacking some of the more  advanced features that modern DCC systems can offer.

Both have their pros and cons. In some areas the NCE product is supposedly superior.

Personal preferences do vary and differ.

Have a look at alternatives, even if that means spending a bit more to future proof your purchasing decision.

Personally speaking, what what it’s worth, if I was buying a new system today, I wouldn’t consider either of these.

 

 

.

i like you're honesty, out of interest if you where to buy a brand new system what would you go for?

[Ron Ron Ron]

50 minutes ago, lwnameplates said:

i like you're honesty, out of interest if you where to buy a brand new system what would you go for?

Well, my requirements and what I liked or thought suited me, might not be the same for you.

Same goes for the available budget.

So I’m not going to recommend or strongly suggest any particular system, but I will highlight some possibilities, for what it’s worth.

I’ve used Lenz, Dynamis and Piko SmartControl (the full fat ESU made system). I still have the latter two.

I’ve also had limited experience of the now discontinued MultiMaus system.

But if I was looking from scratch today, the Roco Z21 would be high on my shortlist, as would the ECoS, but those might be well above your budget. There is the budget version of the Z21 though, the z21, which is very affordable.

The Z21 has a lot of flexibility and a choice of types of handset and control interfaces, as well as advanced features (if that appeals to you).

It’s also the cheapest way you can have wireless handsets.

At the budget end, I wouldn’t have previously considered the Digitrax Zephyr, but I’d certainly take a look at the new, updated and improved DCS52 Zephyr Express version. However that’s a console based system, which might not work for you.

Another console based system I’d consider, is the U.K. made Sig-na Trak Ace-2.

 

The Piko SmartControl Light is another budget system that should be getting more attention ( p.s. it’s an Uhlenbrock system in disguise). You can pick these up quite cheaply, split from new Piko train sets.

There’s also been a lot of interest around the Digikeijs DR5000 based system, but that involves a little bit of effort in putting a system together and from what I understand, has a few minor issues.

 

The usual, sound advice is to get out and try and get your hands on as many systems as possible.

Unfortunately that’s not possible for most people at the current time and if you’ can’t afford to wait, it’s a difficult call to make.

 

 

 

.
 

[lwnameplates]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Well, my requirements and what I liked or thought suited me, might not be the same for you.

Same goes for the available budget.

So I’m not going to recommend or strongly suggest any particular system, but I will highlight some possibilities, for what it’s worth.

I’ve used Lenz, Dynamis and Piko SmartControl (the full fat ESU made system). I still have the latter two.

I’ve also had limited experience of the now discontinued MultiMaus system.

But if I was looking from scratch today, the Roco Z21 would be high on my shortlist, as would the ECoS, but those might be well above your budget. There is the budget version of the Z21 though, the z21, which is very affordable.

The Z21 has a lot of flexibility and a choice of types of handset and control interfaces, as well as advanced features (if that appeals to you).

It’s also the cheapest way you can have wireless handsets.

At the budget end, I wouldn’t have previously considered the Digitrax Zephyr, but I’d certainly take a look at the new, updated and improved DCS52 Zephyr Express version. However that’s a console based system, which might not work for you.

Another console based system I’d consider, is the U.K. made Sig-na Trak Ace-2.

 

The Piko SmartControl Light is another budget system that should be getting more attention ( p.s. it’s an Uhlenbrock system in disguise). You can pick these up quite cheaply, split from new Piko train sets.

There’s also been a lot of interest around the Digikeijs DR5000 based system, but that involves a little bit of effort in putting a system together and from what I understand, has a few minor issues.

 

The usual, sound advice is to get out and try and get your hands on as many systems as possible.

Unfortunately that’s not possible for most people at the current time and if you’ can’t afford to wait, it’s a difficult call to make.

 

 

 

.
 

cheers for that they are systems i haven't heard off (hence why i asked you're opinion).

i would normally have gone and pestered a model shop to have a look and feel of controllers but as you say its difficult to do in the current climate, the big seller for me is functions i am wanting one that will cover the 28 on the SLW class 24.

having used dynamis forever i want to venture away from Bachmann as much as there system i like it just never has sat right having it in my hands, i prefer a more one handed approach 

[ITG]

4 hours ago, lwnameplates said:

cheers for that they are systems i haven't heard off (hence why i asked you're opinion).

i would normally have gone and pestered a model shop to have a look and feel of controllers but as you say its difficult to do in the current climate, the big seller for me is functions i am wanting one that will cover the 28 on the SLW class 24.

having used dynamis forever i want to venture away from Bachmann as much as there system i like it just never has sat right having it in my hands, i prefer a more one handed approach 

If you literally mean “one handed”, then look carefully at handsets. One difference in design between various makes is where/how the throttle wheel is sited. On the Prodigy (which I use) it is “horizontal” meaning you have to hold the handset in one hand, and control the wheel with thumb & finger of the other hand. Other makes may have the throttle wheel vertical and inset at 90 degrees, meaning you can control it with the thumb (only) of the same hand as holds the handset. 
Another aspect which hasn’t been mentioned, and which I think is true of many makes, is having to ‘switch’ between loco control and accessory (Points) control. I find it annoying that the display screen on the Prodigy only shows the loco in use, or the accessory, and then back again. I find that slightly clumsy. For that reason, I have opted to use a (DCC Concepts Alpha-D) LED switch panel for points, so the handset is permanently for loco use. As I say, I think you may find that need to switch between loco-point-loco is common to many makes, but if you think it could be a consideration for you, it may be worth exploring options before making the initial choice.

[Izzy]

I have a Prodigy PA system. It’s good and simple for what it is, and suits my needs. 
 

But....very few systems are capable of accessing all the 28 sound functions that many sound decoders come with these days - -such as the SLW24 - without an awful lot of hassle/button pushing. It is like this with the Prodigy, and isn’t intuitive. And that’s if they can do them all, many can’t. 

 

To activate sound functions you really want to be able to just push the button/tab for that function, on/off. A screen type system that shows them all is best, but apart from apps on phones/tablets these are not hand-held. One of these is the Signatrak ACE 2 about which I have seen good reports. 
 

Not at all easy choosing a DCC system, and especially at present when you can’t go and see/test one physically.

 

Bob

[KingEdwardII]

I too have a Prodigy PA2 system, but I am in the process of moving away from it.

 

The PA2 is fine as far as it goes, but you need to select a system that will work best for your needs. One simple problem is using the PA2 to control turnouts as well as locos. This can be done with the PA2 handset, but I find it very clunky switching back and forth between accessories and locos and there is no display of the current state of a turnout. The standard PA2 handset is also a wired one, which can get a bit clumsy with a 2 metre cable snaking about back to the controller unit.

 

My longer-term goal is to control the accessories via a touch-screen monitor attached to a Raspberry Pi system, and control the locos through a wireless handset - "look, mum, no cables!" ;-) I am also thinking about using the computer to provide further automation of some train movements, which gets me into occupancy detection and feedback.

 

For this, I first need a controller which supports a suitable computer connection. The PA2 system does support a computer connection, but the necessary cable has a hefty price - > £50. The PA2 has provision for a wireless handset, but it too has a hefty pricetag. The PA2 is also a very closed kind of system and there does not seem to be a good approach to adding detection and feedback.

 

So I am looking to replace the PA2 with something much more computer-oriented and supporting detection and feedback. The current front runner for me is the Digikeijs DR5000, although I am aware of a number of other systems that would provide what I need, some of which are considerably more expensive. One advantage of the DR5000 is that it is relatively open and supports the use of equipment from other suppliers, such as handsets. The NCE systems seem more on a par with the PA2 - relatively old school in terms of design and connectivity - and I am not considering them.

 

Mike.

[Ron Ron Ron]

[lwnameplates]

4 hours ago, ITG said:

If you literally mean “one handed”, then look carefully at handsets. One difference in design between various makes is where/how the throttle wheel is sited. On the Prodigy (which I use) it is “horizontal” meaning you have to hold the handset in one hand, and control the wheel with thumb & finger of the other hand. Other makes may have the throttle wheel vertical and inset at 90 degrees, meaning you can control it with the thumb (only) of the same hand as holds the handset. 
Another aspect which hasn’t been mentioned, and which I think is true of many makes, is having to ‘switch’ between loco control and accessory (Points) control. I find it annoying that the display screen on the Prodigy only shows the loco in use, or the accessory, and then back again. I find that slightly clumsy. For that reason, I have opted to use a (DCC Concepts Alpha-D) LED switch panel for points, so the handset is permanently for loco use. As I say, I think you may find that need to switch between loco-point-loco is common to many makes, but if you think it could be a consideration for you, it may be worth exploring options before making the initial choice.

hi thanks for the reply, when i say one handed i mean sort of i can walk around with it ect not litteral one handed haha.

i have decided to use dc for point and signals (i find wiring relaxing) so plan to use a old dc controller so the unit wouldn't be used for points ect.

in all honest im not the biggest dcc fan but the lure of sound 37s tempts me to much even more so now i struggle to see the real things due to my health.

so my use for the handset would be for locos only adding accessories would just confuse me.

as i say the biggest reason for upgrade is simply wanting the extra function buttons otherwise i would have stuck with my dynamis.

 

[paftrain]

I have been using Prodigy2 for some years and found it easy to use and covers functions up to 29 if I remember correctly. To be honest, you probably won’t use the high numbers once the novelty has worn off. For points I still use DC with push to make switches which makes choosing a route simple. I would certainly recommend it and it isn’t too expensive. You can also get them secondhand occasionally .

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 28/12/2020 at 23:43, jcm@gwr said:

Secondly, the general consensus in my circles is that the tech

in the Prodigy is nowhere near as good as the NCE.

And yet you offer no facts of why this is, so I'd say that's just opinion  

 

 

@lwnameplates  When I was researching, it depended on stupid things like handset layout rather than anything else.  Here's three threads I read before deciding on my controller of choice:

 

 

 

 

From what I remember (but may not be factually correct), the plus points for the PA2 for me were the lifetime guarantee and it comes with more power out of the box.  I think someone suggested the NCE required a power booster if you wanted to run more than a few (sound) locos at once.  The PA2 doesn't require this.

 

I may be open to selling mine but not sure yet.

 

This thread may also be useful:
 

I've linked straight to @Art Dent's reply to my post (directly above it).

Muchos respect for this guy - they knows what they're talking about and have helped me with many aspects of model railwaying. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[MichaelE]

On 29/12/2020 at 05:23, Ron Ron Ron said:

The NCE information station reiterates warnings and guidance they give, or have previously given elsewhere.....

 

NCE recommend the PowerCab should be be used with additional track short circuit protection.

There are documented examples of PowerCabs burning themselves out, where track shorts have been left uncorrected.

.

 

I would sincerely hope that the short would be corrected as soon as trains stop moving. Other than a derailment, I don't see a short circuit randomly happening unless something metal is dropped or falls onto the track.

[MichaelE]

3 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

And yet you offer no facts of why this is, so I'd say that's just opinion.

 

 

OP:  When I was researching, it depended on things like handset layout rather than anything else.

 

Not sure if you can search back through my posts (the ones I created) - If I can find the posts, I will link to them here.

 

From what I remember (but may not be factually correct), the plus points for the PA2 for me were lifetime guarantee and it comes with more power.  Someone suggested the NCE required a power booster if you wanted to run more than a few locos and things at once.  The PA2 doesn't require this.

 

I don't often do this because they are hard to keep an eye on all at the same time, but I have run up to five DCC sound locomotives at the same time on my layout using the Powercab. One time I ran six for a short time, but as I said it's hard to keep speeds matched on six locomotives so they don't creep up on one another.

 

I usually limit operations to two sound locomotives on one track, a third on another, and a fourth on the third track. Sometimes though, only three at a time when I'm at the bench fiddling with something or other and can't keep tabs on the two on the same track.