prodigy Vs NCE powercab

[Ron Ron Ron]

8 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

.....From what I remember (but may not be factually correct), the plus points for the PA2 for me were the lifetime guarantee and it comes with more power out of the box.  .......

 

There is no "lifetime guarantee" on the Gaugemaster Prodigy range of DCC systems.

Gaugemaster provide a lifetime guarantee on their own brand DC controllers, but not on their bought-in DCC systems (they're badge engineered MRC systems).

 

 

.

[jcm@gwr]

1 hour ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

And yet you offer no facts of why this is, so I'd say that's just opinion  

 

 

Firstly, the PA has a default setting that automatically turns off the DC function, 

which is a pain it you wish to use it on different layouts (we have multiple club

members, who like[d] to go to and run on other members layouts, as well as a

few who only ran DCC at the club)

Secondly, there have been a few occasions where the PA has reset the address.

 

We are converting the club layout to the MERG system, which not only has more

functions and ability, it is much cheaper, and (because it's wireless) we can use

our smartphones/tablets, etc.

[Izzy]

Another issue to throw into the pot is that currently it's uncertain whether production of the MRC  Prodigy system has ceased since the recent takeover of MRC. This has implications regarding spares and repairs quite besides the general unavailability of most products. There is a thread here somewhere where Gaugemaster were unable to offer repair of a unit as a result.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Another issue to throw into the pot is that currently it's uncertain whether production of the MRC  Prodigy system has ceased since the recent takeover of MRC. This has implications regarding spares and repairs quite besides the general unavailability of most products.......

Indeed.

Both the MRC and Gaugemaster websites have been showing “out of stock” on most Prodigy systems and accessories, for almost all of 2020.

 

 

 

.

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 01/01/2021 at 16:21, Ron Ron Ron said:

There is no "lifetime guarantee" on the Gaugemaster Prodigy range of DCC systems.

Gaugemaster provide a lifetime guarantee on their own brand DC controllers, but not on their bought-in DCC systems (they're badge engineered MRC systems).

 

Oh, sorry (although did pre-warn it might not be factual).
I mis-understood.  Perhaps it's that Gaugemaster will accept it back for repair but PowerCab maker won't?

Edited January 2, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[pauliebanger]

Of course NCE will accept PowerCabs for repair.

 

Not only that, but it's usually a pretty quick turn around and modestly priced.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

DCC systems are best bought from companies that make their living from DCC, not companies that make a range of products including DCC systems. So, although I haven't used either NCE or Prodigy, my instinct says the former is a better bet. Gaugemaster, as has been said, buy the Prodigy in from MRC, who have been a popular USA supplier of DC controllers for ages. In the '60s I had an MRC Varipower slot-car controller. But DC isn't DCC. 

 

All that said, the systems we are looking at here are both US systems. I have happily used another US system for more than 20 years, but RMweb is awash with happy DCC-users who bought a European system and loved it. Please examine the European offerings, because it is likely they will suit you better, too. 

[boxbrownie]

19 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

DCC systems are best bought from companies that make their living from DCC, not companies that make a range of products including DCC systems. So, although I haven't used either NCE or Prodigy, my instinct says the former is a better bet. Gaugemaster, as has been said, buy the Prodigy in from MRC, who have been a popular USA supplier of DC controllers for ages. In the '60s I had an MRC Varipower slot-car controller. But DC isn't DCC. 

 

All that said, the systems we are looking at here are both US systems. I have happily used another US system for more than 20 years, but RMweb is awash with happy DCC-users who bought a European system and loved it. Please examine the European offerings, because it is likely they will suit you better, too. 

This makes a lot of sense.......the BIG choice is whether you prefer hand held or console based (or a console based with handset for the best of both worlds)....the other is cost.

I had used the Digitrax Zephyr system for many years on my N gauge Japanese layout as it was only the size of a door and I didn’t need the walk about facility, I now am building a 4mm version of Bredon (roughly 8x5) and have gone with the ECoS as I love the big screen and ability to easily switch between sound functions and everything is clearly marked on screen, it also has the ability (which I am using) to have a mimic layout for easy control of point motors and accessories, I might even decide to add on a wired or wireless remote with it eventually, but the main  advantage I see with it is it’s made and designed by just about the biggest DCC manufacturer of chips, there’s no way it’s going to disappear overnight or abandon the system.

 

It is presently so difficult but yes the real answer is to get out and handle the systems first, or invest in something cheaper for now just to get your appetite whetted.

Edited January 2, 2021 by boxbrownie

[F-UnitMad]

Although I happily use an NCE, and rate it way above the Gaugemaster/MRC equivalent, I do have to agree with an earlier poster who pointed out that they are now rather old technology as far as DCC is concerned. Even with the NCE you have to do some button-pressing to reach all 28 special functions, and only then after re-configuring the 'Options' button on the handset (don't ask me how, my young friend did it for me!!).

Options that link to mobile device apps seem the way forward now, along with a Sprog/JMRI setup for programing. That is where I'd look now if starting from scratch.

[Sir TophamHatt]

So @lwnameplates - as you can see, very divisive opinions.

I think the only common agreement you'll get is that at the end of the day, it's more the look and feel of the physical controller than anything else as they all do pretty much the same thing.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

DCC systems are best bought from companies that make their living from DCC, not companies that make a range of products including DCC systems.....

.....Gaugemaster, as has been said, buy the Prodigy in from MRC, who have been a popular USA supplier of DC controllers for ages. In the '60s I had an MRC Varipower slot-car controller. But DC isn't DCC.... 

 

 

Ian, you seem to be heavily implying that MRC are not a specialist in DCC ?

Sure, MRC have historically been one of N America's leading providers of DC power packs, but they've also been in the DCC game and producing DCC systems since the early/mid 1990's ....(starting with their Command 2000), which I guess you could say, makes them a "specialist" producer of DCC systems for something around the last 25 years.

 

 

.

[Oldddudders]

I think my take on MRC is not unconnected to their lacklustre decoders, of which I have several as factory fitments in Athearn locos. US decoders as a whole don't find universal favour on RMweb, but I found the MRC sound decoders to be substantially inferior to other contemporary US brands. I see MRC as being bargain basement or mass market, in contrast to NCE or Digitrax aiming for the serious hobbyist.

[lwnameplates]

well i must admit have a lot to get my head around thought this whole dcc malarkey was easier than DC hahaha.

i think for now i will stick with my dynamis and when me and the wife get moved whenever that will be look again hopefully not in a global pandemic and try a few.

one thing i have learnt is how much things have changed since i was into dcc in it early days.

[Geep7]

On 03/01/2021 at 07:32, Oldddudders said:

I think my take on MRC is not unconnected to their lacklustre decoders, of which I have several as factory fitments in Athearn locos. US decoders as a whole don't find universal favour on RMweb, but I found the MRC sound decoders to be substantially inferior to other contemporary US brands. I see MRC as being bargain basement or mass market, in contrast to NCE or Digitrax aiming for the serious hobbyist.

I quite agree with this. I have a Proto 1000 BL2 fitted with an MRC sound chip, and it's not a patch on the Soundtraxx ones. I used to use NCE decoders by default for all my locos, even British outline, but they have become increasingly difficult to get hold off, so i've now started using the more expensive Bachmann, Digitraxx and Lenz chips.

 

To the OP:

As regards actual systems, i've used an NCE PowerCab since circa. 2005, first my Dad's, and then my own which I purchased in 2009. I've never had a single chip blow because of the system. The only time i've ever had the magic smoke escape was when I put a too low amp rated decoder in a Heljan Class 47 (now I know better!). When we went for the PowerCab, then only starter options available were the PowerCab or the Digitraxx Zepher iirc. The PowerCab won hands down for me, as it was a totally one handed system (quiet at the back) and you could move around the layout at ease, which came into it's own at exhibitions. If the Prodigy Advanced had been on the market when we started, i'm not sure which we would have chosen. I quite like the thumb-wheel controller, and just the ergonomics of the hand-set. I can actually use the PowerCab handset without looking at it when operating a train, handy as I use a proper DC control panel for turnouts.

 

As others have said though, it is very much a personal choice. And although as you have mentioned, during the current situation, you can't visit a model shop, I would really suggest you hold of making a final purchase until you have tried out a couple of the systems.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Geep7

[lwnameplates]

28 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

I quite agree with this. I have a Proto 1000 BL2 fitted with an MRC sound chip, and it's not a patch on the Soundtraxx ones. I used to use NCE decoders by default for all my locos, even British outline, but they have become increasingly difficult to get hold off, so i've now started using the more expensive Bachmann, Digitraxx and Lenz chips.

 

To the OP:

As regards actual systems, i've used an NCE PowerCab since circa. 2005, first my Dad's, and then my own which I purchased in 2009. I've never had a single chip blow because of the system. The only time i've ever had the magic smoke escape was when I put a too low amp rated decoder in a Heljan Class 47 (now I know better!). When we went for the PowerCab, then only starter options available were the PowerCab or the Digitraxx Zepher iirc. The PowerCab won hands down for me, as it was a totally one handed system (quiet at the back) and you could move around the layout at ease, which came into it's own at exhibitions. If the Prodigy Advanced had been on the market when we started, i'm not sure which we would have chosen. I quite like the thumb-wheel controller, and just the ergonomics of the hand-set. I can actually use the PowerCab handset without looking at it when operating a train, handy as I use a proper DC control panel for turnouts.

 

As others have said though, it is very much a personal choice. And although as you have mentioned, during the current situation, you can't visit a model shop, I would really suggest you hold of making a final purchase until you have tried out a couple of the systems.

yes i have decided to hold off its a bit cruel to myself not been able to use all the functions of the 24 when it arrives but im also not going to blow a substantial sum on something i don't like, although i was inclined to hand held like dynamis I'm quiet liking some of the control based systems but again i will wait till i can hold/see one at least see how one operates so i can have a proper idea, as much as YouTube is great its not the real thing.

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, Geep7 said:

......When we went for the PowerCab, then only starter options available were the PowerCab or the Digitraxx Zepher iirc. .....

.....If the Prodigy Advanced had been on the market when we started, i'm not sure which we would have chosen. ......

 

Hi Chris.

For accuracy, the MRC Prodigy Advance (later superseded by the current Advance Squared) was available several years before NCE decided to offer a lower priced starter system, to complement their regular, full system. The Prodigy Advanced line, being a competitor to the full NCE system (PowerHouse Pro).

 

From memory, the story I read at the time was that PowerCab was only released, as NCE's competitors in the US market (note: NCE only sold their products in N. America and Oz at the time) already had starter systems.

Digitrax with the Zephyr, Lenz with the Compact (also sold under the Atlas brand as the Commander) and later on, with MRC introducing the Prodigy Express.

 

The rational was that in the early days, some modellers were nervous or reluctant to shell out large amounts on a full scale DCC system, without being sure it was the correct one for them, our through being unsure about adapting to the new technology.

Starter systems were there to make that leap more affordable and less of a financial risk, if the purchaser decided to change to another brand, or go back to DC.

 

The story goes that NCE got into the game, because they realised that once someone had bought into a brand, they were more likely to be locked in and stick with that brand when upgrading to a full system, when adding boosters, or if adding extra modules to extend their system.

Without having a starter system, they were losing some potential customers to their competitors. Many of those "lost" customers would be lost to NCE forever, being locked into another brand's system.

Hence the PowerCab being launched, with the idea that it would introduce new customers into the NCE camp and help entice, or steer them towards upgrading to NCE's full system.

It's no accident that the PowerCab handset has a completely identical user interface and outward appearance to the ProCab handset.

 

 

.

[Izzy]

One aspect in the MRC Prodigy's favour I think is that the (wired) handsets can be used with any system. The Express one doesn't have accessory control, so using an Advance one does allow 'upgrading' of the Express. And the Express handset can be used in an Advance as just a throttle same as in the Express. The wireless handset is bigger (longer to give space for the 4xAAA's, so has extra features such as direct cv/POM button etc. and doesn't plug in at all of course unless you want to charge it that way. A couple of sets of re-chargeables to swop them over is I find a better solution. With the conversion set it can also be used with any base/command station, Express or Advance.

[Geep7]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Hi Chris.

For accuracy, the MRC Prodigy Advance (later superseded by the current Advance Squared) was available several years before NCE decided to offer a lower priced starter system, to complement their regular, full system. The Prodigy Advanced line, being a competitor to the full NCE system (PowerHouse Pro).

 

From memory, the story I read at the time was that PowerCab was only released, as NCE's competitors in the US market (note: NCE only sold their products in N. America and Oz at the time) already had starter systems.

Digitrax with the Zephyr, Lenz with the Compact (also sold under the Atlas brand as the Commander) and later on, with MRC introducing the Prodigy Express.

 

The rational was that in the early days, some modellers were nervous or reluctant to shell out large amounts on a full scale DCC system, without being sure it was the correct one for them, our through being unsure about adapting to the new technology.

Starter systems were there to make that leap more affordable and less of a financial risk, if the purchaser decided to change to another brand, or go back to DC.

 

The story goes that NCE got into the game, because they realised that once someone had bought into a brand, they were more likely to be locked in and stick with that brand when upgrading to a full system, when adding boosters, or if adding extra modules to extend their system.

Without having a starter system, they were losing some potential customers to their competitors. Many of those "lost" customers would be lost to NCE forever, being locked into another brand's system.

Hence the PowerCab being launched, with the idea that it would introduce new customers into the NCE camp and help entice, or steer them towards upgrading to NCE's full system.

It's no accident that the PowerCab handset has a completely identical user interface and outward appearance to the ProCab handset.

 

 

.

Quite right to correct me. I was only thinking from a UK point of view, forgetting that the US market was slightly different. Those constant MRC adverts on the back of Model Railroader should have stuck in my memory.

 

You're right about locking into the NCE system, the only accessory that allows someone to break out of it is the USB interface as far as I'm aware, and I'm pretty sure it's limited in what can connect to it. Useful for using Decoder Pro for me....

[Ron Ron Ron]

10 hours ago, Geep7 said:

..... I was only thinking from a UK point of view, forgetting that the US market was slightly different. ......

 

It wasn't  just in the US market.

Gaugemaster also started selling the MRC systems under their own brand name in the UK, before NCE made it to these shores.

 

.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Brian]

A few days ago I sent MRC in the USA an email asking about their entire Prodigy range which shows most DCC items out of stock on their web site (Except for the 10AMp Elite). I asked was the Prodigy range being replaced or upgraded  or was there some other issues that are causing the no stock issue both in the USA and here via Gaugemaster.

While they didn't say what the cause of their problems were, they replied with the message below....

 

"We will have more Prodigy systems coming in stock. We're looking at around mid to late February for most Prodigy products. We do not have an ETA for the wireless products".

 

So I guess it will take until April ish for GM to regain UK stock? Assuming MRC stock arrives as expected.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Brian

[BromsMods]

On 07/01/2021 at 08:26, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

It wasn't  just in the US market.

Gaugemaster also started selling the MRC systems under their own brand name in the UK, before NCE made it to these shores.

 

.

 

Hi Ron

 

I'm not sure that is quite right as I recall selling MRC systems here in the UK alongside NCE before Gaugemaster had UK branded MRC systems available in the mid-late 2000s