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BR Mark 1 OLE project


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19 hours ago, dmu 156 said:

Thank you, a new video of the Chester layout was posted 20hrs ago by Phil Clark it shows the 86s running with  Sommerfeldt pans up and 87s running with the Judith Edge 'crossarm' pans up.

Just out of interest, what was the main reason for doing pan swaps on these locos?

 

I always used to find the old locos (older Hornby, Heljan etc.) had massively over-sprung pans that would distort or even damage catenary if used in a contact setup.

I have new Bachmann class 85, 90 and Heljan AL6 (planning on a new Horby 87 at some point) and had assumed the new pantographs on these models would be better suited to running in contact with OLE, but I have not actually had the opportunity to test this..  Can anyone confirm or deny this?

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2 hours ago, Northern Electric said:

Just out of interest, what was the main reason for doing pan swaps on these locos?

 

I always used to find the old locos (older Hornby, Heljan etc.) had massively over-sprung pans that would distort or even damage catenary if used in a contact setup.

I have new Bachmann class 85, 90 and Heljan AL6 (planning on a new Horby 87 at some point) and had assumed the new pantographs on these models would be better suited to running in contact with OLE, but I have not actually had the opportunity to test this..  Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

I had one of my Bachmann 90s running at Chester on Saturday and they were just fine :-)

 

 

 

Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD

 

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Yes the older pans are oversprung and quite chunky to be in contact with OLE. The Sommerfeldt ones are designed to be working in contact with the OLE wether live or cosmetic, the Judith Edge 'crossarm' pan is also lightly sprung so will work in contact with OLE. The new Hornby 87 has a plastic pan head so that will wear very quickly, and other Hornby posable pans are usually plastic throughout.  Bachmann's 90 also works well as it still flexes up and down with hardly any resistance once it is raised by the servo. Bachmanb's 85 works well once the pan head control arm has been adjusted to keep the pan head level at the the contact wire height you are running along. I intend to modify the pan on the new APT when its available. Hope this gives an insight into the various pans fitted to RTR stock and their limitations.

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Reducing the springing is definitely needed, the springing on the real things isn't that strong anyway and in model terms you need just enough to hold the pan up. My class 84 Loadbank (now 25+ years old) had a nice fluid action and I took it along to the Cathedral yesterday (with tour polo shirt) to continue its wanderings on various OHLE layouts and it ended up having a trundle around the layout.  :D

 

All things considered I thought the layout was superb and it sounds like it has been well received by the public. Any OHLE is always an added complexity and with just about every other area of modelling there is always a balance between exact scale and working compromises, and to me the end result here is spot on. 

 

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I'd noticed beforehand that the lower arm had a crack in it near the elbow and I managed to break it completely this morning, so is now on the workbench for evaluation along with two other scales of overhead modelling.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

From 1970 - 1988 I lived beside the WCML, very close to Roade cutting which Pete Waterman has represented in his layout, even my school overlooked it so taking an interest in trains was inevitable!

 

I've always wanted to model the WCML of that time but until now, too much has been missing. The two biggest issues being no easily available correct OHLE and no class 310 unless you can build a Southern Pride kit.

 

Until now it appears, as  Britannia Pacific are finally here to save the day! The 312 has arrived, 310 to follow.. 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi I just completed the 1st survey. I have got to say I really do like the 3D designs you've done for OHLE portals and registration arms. I could see something like this to be very popular with modern modellers modelling the 1970s up to the present day. Especially since there are some impressive new model electrics coming out like the Heljan 86/0 and Hornby 87 with Rapido Trains 92 as well.

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The early Overhead AC model locos (such as the 1960 Hornby models) were designed so that they could collect power from an overhead wire. In order to maintain contact they had to exert a noticeable pressure of the collector on the model Pan against the OHLE and this is where you get the out of scale spring strength from. I'm not sure, but I suspect that any of the more recent offerings that collect from the overhead will also be on the 'strong' side. It's the only way they can consistantly collect current.

Ian_B

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3 hours ago, Ian_B said:

The early Overhead AC model locos (such as the 1960 Hornby models) were designed so that they could collect power from an overhead wire. In order to maintain contact they had to exert a noticeable pressure of the collector on the model Pan against the OHLE and this is where you get the out of scale spring strength from. I'm not sure, but I suspect that any of the more recent offerings that collect from the overhead will also be on the 'strong' side. It's the only way they can consistantly collect current.

Ian_B

Yes indeed, but watching Electra spark as it whizzed around in the dark was what got me hooked on model OHLE

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  • 10 months later...

Hey guys,

Apologies for the long absence for anyone who was following this, but finally some good news - I have now acquired my own 3d printer and have been doing some test prints this last few days with reasonable success.

Some of the models will need some tweaking and I may need to reorient them on the print bed to get a flawless result, but by and large the lattice portals are coming out very well.

I am not far off the point of being able to sell them now, and of course having my own printer makes them vastly cheaper to produce.  Price wise I was thinking around the £10 for a pair of the 4-track portals and £8-9 for a pair of two track portals.  Here are my latest test prints from the last few days. There are all unpainted and as they would come "out of the box" so to speak.

Let me know what you think and if you are interested in them. Cheers, Niall

 

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As you can probably see some of the really fine bits like the registration arms and the radiator fins on the transformers didn't come out quite right but I'm confident I can get them to print sucessfully with a bit more testing.  The arms will of course be fragile (strong enough to support wires just about) so not suitable for a contact or tensioned system.

For that, I was thinking I may offer sets of insulators seperately for those wishing to solder their own registration/support fittings from brass wire for use in a tensioned/contact system.

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An example of the 4 track portal just placed together (top), and a 4 track and 2 track assembled and painted.

 

I am undecide yet on what sort of fixing method to employ to secure them to the base board.  I was thinking to perhaps include some small holes in the bases so they can be screwed down with small screws, as gluing them will mean they are likely to get broken if they ever have to be removed or repositioned.  Any thoughts on this aspect welcome.  Cheers

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On my 2mm layout I’ve used N brass OHLE with 8ba bolts on the bottom, sunk through the baseboard and then bolted into place. With the wires - 9thou guitar wire - also soldered on the complete structure ends up being quite strong and fairly resilient. However once or twice I’ve found the soldered bolt joints have fractured and the idea of using neodymium magnets seems a really good one. With the right size they would I think be strong enough to hold things in position but have a bit of ‘give’ reducing the risk of fracturing the masts etc. which I guess with 3D printed stuff might be a concern. 
 

Bob

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I was about to ask about the fragility of the printed OHLE. As some of you may know I was in charge of the MRC's "New Annington" in the 1980s from its inception. We eventually installed OHLE on that using a mixture of Somerfeld masts and catenary wires and home-built multi-track spans. Locos used either the Trix/Lilliput Stone-Faively pan as used on the Trix AL. We had a couple of 86s with cross-arm pan and a couple with the later sinle arm pan. All home made if I remember correctly. 

 

The OHLE was tensioned to a degree and the pans were in contact with the wire, but we had to reduce the spring tension. The OHLE ended in the tunnel mouths with a run-in and run-out section. This didn't give any promlems and dewirements were very few, maybe 2 or 3 a day at an exhibition.

 

I've been a fan of the overhead electrics since they arrived in the London area in the mid 1960s! i ended up secondmanning on them at Rugby in 1974/75. An interesting time. I reckon the AM10s in the original blue livery were the best. Good luck with your project.

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  • 1 year later...

Hey all,

So it's been a while since I last posted but I've made substantial progress since I aquired my own 3d printer late last year, and I've been working on getting the product as good as I can.

I now have a range of mark 1 structures that I feel look good, are easy to construct, and are sensibly priced.  I've been selling on eBay for several months now while making gradual improvements to the design and trying out different resin formulations, and they are selling quite well.  People seem to be very happy with the designs.

 

Due to keeping things as scale as possible, the registration fittings are delicate and therefore suitable for cosmetic use only.

However, the portals themselves are reasonably resilient to minor knocks and bumps and when they do break, it is usually at the joints where you glue them together, so quite often they can be repaired.  Failing that, even the more complex ones are still fairly quick to assemble (like, less than 10 minutes each) and not expensive, so replacing them isn't a big deal.

 

The main questions in my mind now is the longer term properties of 3d resin parts and how they will hold up over time.

It is known that they can warp and become brittle when exposed to sunlight for extended periods, so from this perspective priming and painting them well will be essential for durability as well as appearence.

 

The other question is around production scale limitations.  I'm pretty sure I could sell a lot more if I could make more, and in the more immediate future I could invest in another, larger printer (the first one I got has paid for its self several times over now) but due to the time it takes to print, wash and cure them the quantity is always going to be rather limited. Perhaps that is ok for such a niche product but I can see the limit would be a lot lower than with say, injection molding. But then of course 3d is much more flexible, and these days, cheaper to buy too.

 

Anyway, below will follow a summery of products I am now able to offer to purchase.

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2-track lightweight portals, with ladder type legs.

 

These ones have some flexibility - They can be made up as single or duplex portals and can be made with additional centre sections to cover 3 tracks and platform scenarios.

However I did find that when extended to 4 tracks the boom section due to being so fine, did start to sag in the middle a bit so I now only recommend making them upto 3 tracks, or 4 tracks with additional ladder leg in the middle (like in the bottom photo)

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