RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2020 Hi, I have taken the plunge and bought a lokprogrammer, Recent purchases have all been ESU decoders so I thought I would delve deeper into DCC and learn how to use one of these. I have many decoders from different manufacturuers. My question is will the lokprogrammer only work with ESU decoders, I have several Lenz, a few Hornby, Gaugemaster, TCS etc. Is there a list of decoders it will work with or am I confined to ESU when using this bit of kit? I havent experimented yet as I am a little worried about either messing up the decoder or programmer by trying to read an incompatible decoder. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2020 I'd be surprised if it does handle other decoders although it might read some of the basic CVs. from other make's. I doubt it would do any damage to those other decoders if you did try to get it to try to read them. JMRI's DecoderPro is pretty useful for the other decoders although it does take a long time to read the full ESU CVs whereas the Lokprogrammer fair races through them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Only ESU decoders can be used with the lokprogrammer, like you I do have some other decoder manufacturers and use decoder pro for those. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Get JMRI for the others as well as ESU. You need to connect your DCC equipment to your Computer so might need something special to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 As you'll know, LokProgrammer consists of two parts, the hardware, and the software. Together they have 2 uses: 1. to upload sound files on to ESU decoders, and 2. to update the firmware on ESU decoders. It also makes programming ESU decoders easier, but you don't need the LokProgrammer hardware or software to program an ESU decoder. The LokProgrammer software has a built-in database of the CVs and their permitted values as used by each ESU decoder. That is why a new version ofthe LP software is released whenever ESU release a new decoder. This makes programming ESU decoders easier as you don't need to know the exact purpose of each CV, especially CVs 257 and above. As the LP software doesn't have this database of CVs and their uses for other makes you can't really use it for programming other makes unless you're writing a value to an individual CV. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 The advantage of the programmer when using ESU Sound decoders, is you can get Sound Files sent to you for downloading onto ESU V4 & V5 decoders via E.Mail. Charlie-dckits-Legomanbiffo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 There is a pull down list of supported decoders in the software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) On 31/12/2020 at 22:21, GoingUnderground said: The LokProgrammer software has a built-in database of the CVs and their permitted values as used by each ESU decoder. That is why a new version ofthe LP software is released whenever ESU release a new decoder. This makes programming ESU decoders easier as you don't need to know the exact purpose of each CV, especially CVs 257 and above. The same is also true of DecoderPro (JMRI), with a suitable interface for your system, or stand-alone programmer, it just takes a little longer for DP to catch up with new releases. Just to clarify, I am only referring to basic CV programming. JMRI does not cover ESU specific features such as sound loading. Edited January 4, 2021 by Crosland Clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 One issue with decoder pro is that if you don’t exactly know what decoder you have installed, when you try to identify it in decoder pro sometimes you will get multiple sections within the manufacturer of that decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, Andymsa said: One issue with decoder pro is that if you don’t exactly know what decoder you have installed, when you try to identify it in decoder pro sometimes you will get multiple sections within the manufacturer of that decoder. That's a limitation caused by the decoder maker. If the decoder maker doesn't leave CV's in their decoder to uniquely identify the decoder, then the only way to tell decoder-A from decoder-B is to inspect the decoder hardware with your eyes. Something your DCC system cannot do, regardless of the skills of the software writers. Some decoder makers are very good about having CVs in their decoders to identify the decoder, right down to hardware and firmware running on the decoder. When that's possible, the JMRI developers include it in the code. But other decoder manufacturers are less good, and some have nothing beyond "its made by maker X" (and a few manufacturers even get that wrong!). 46 minutes ago, Crosland said: The same is also true of DecoderPro (JMRI), with a suitable interface for your system, or stand-alone programmer, it just takes a little longer for DP to catch up with new releases. For ESU decoders the "catch up" time is very short - a few months at most because Dave Heap seems to be really on top of things ESU, and in regular correspondence with ESU to ensure what he does is "correct" and covering any new features. - Nigel (occasional contributor of JMRI decoder files, and have extended decoder pro stuff to correctly identify decoder models for a couple of makers) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnfromoz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 On the subject of Lokprogrammers, I purchased one of these in about 2007 and after a flurry of activity to around 2009 mainly downloading files for my Irish stock, it has fallen into disuse. It is so old it’s PC interface is the old multi pin type. is this hardware now useless? Can a Lokprogrammer be used with an I-pad? Any views appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 hours ago, Johnfromoz said: On the subject of Lokprogrammers, I purchased one of these in about 2007 and after a flurry of activity to around 2009 mainly downloading files for my Irish stock, it has fallen into disuse. It is so old it’s PC interface is the old multi pin type. is this hardware now useless? Can a Lokprogrammer be used with an I-pad? Almost certainly works on a modern Windows PC with a USB-serial adaptor (cheap standard item). The LokProgrammer software is written for Windows. No, an old one, or a new one, won't work on an iPad (unless you can write your own software for iPad ....). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Yes but you will need to convert the 9 pin serial to a USB. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 There are two barriers to what you want to do. 1. Software As Nigel has said, the Lokprogrammer software is a Microsoft Windows program that works with all versions of Windows from Windows 7 onwards. There is no Apple version of the LokProgrammer software. So to use it with an iPad you would need to install a Windows emulator on your iPad, and then install Windows. I have no idea if you can install such an emulator on an iPad as I don't own an iPad. You would need to use the latest version of the Lokprogrammer software if you intend to work with ESU's decoders released since 2009, which you can download for free from ESU's website. 2. Hardware You will need to connect the LokProgrammer hardware to the iPad. Now that so few computers have RS232 ports, Lokprogrammer users connect their LP hardware to their Windows computer using an RS232 to USB cable. This cable is a smart cable with a chip in it to bridge between USB and RS232. You cannot simply rewire an RS232 cable so that it has a USB plug on the other end as Norman implies. The RS232 to USB cable that most people use has an FTDI chip in it as the Windows driver for the FTDI cable works without problems. The driver for some other makes of bridging chip were found to be incompatible with Windows 10. The USB end of the cable is a USB-A plug as found on most windows desktop and laptop computers. I don't know if your iPad has a USB-A socket. If it doesn't then you would need to find an adapter from USB-A to whatever port you have on your iPad. There may be a smart cable or active adapter specifically for RS232 to your iPad's port which would simplify matters a bit for you. So, if your iPad can run a Windows emulator, AND you can install Windows on it, AND has a USB A port (or there is an adapter to USB A from whatever port is on your iPad), then "Yes" you can use it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnfromoz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Thanks guys for the info. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 11 hours ago, GoingUnderground said: You cannot simply rewire an RS232 cable so that it has a USB plug on the other end as Norman implies. To be fair, they simply say "need to convert it" - I'm not sure why anyone would translate that to "needing to re-wire it" One does not simply re-wire USB cables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said: To be fair, they simply say "need to convert it" - I'm not sure why anyone would translate that to "needing to re-wire it" One does not simply re-wire USB cables. I thought that "need to convert" was too vague a statement that could be misunderstood as meaning a simple rewiring job by anyone who did not realise that an active converter or bridge was required. People do misread things or make incorrect assumptions at times or do silly things. I once came across a mains extension lead in the attic of a house that a friend of ours had just bought that had a 13 Amp 3 pin plug on both ends.... Edited January 5, 2021 by GoingUnderground clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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