RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) On 28/01/2021 at 15:49, pheaton said: They went back out to Europe under the fertis guise of which, most of them are still out there, but only one will theoretically come back, 58050, thats if the NRM still want it. Most of them are now on scrap wheelsets, and have had a visit from the copper fairies so wouldn't expect much more to come back. Unless GBRF grabbed them, took them to Stoke, put a 66 body side and roof panels on them and turned them in to class 61’s... aiui any ex-BR loco has to be offered for sale before disposal, regardless where it is or condition, which is maybe why EWS hasnt yet dumped em and left them to rot. we can dream, but ex-56 now 69001 is load bank testing this week and that was unthinkable a few years ago. stange world we live in, when a preserved 56 becomes a fully rebuilt mainline loco ... The future 69015, formerly known as 56312, formerly known as 56003 freshly preserved from Booths scrapyard and repainted at the ELR in 2008... who would think that Preservation 13 years ago was little more than a mid-life garden leave. I think it makes 56003 a very unique engine in that sense. Given no UK loading gauge euro emissions spec diesel exists, more rebuilds may be the future...intact 58 body shells are still “rebuilds”, still someday have to be sold, and theres precious little else out there anyone can rebuild or new build for UK loading gauge.. thats why GBRF is doing what its doing. Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Having got the two BR era models before Christmas I finally got around to opening these up this afternoon... they look really good and seem to have been finished to a much higher standard than the original Heljan and Olivias releases. I was a bit intrigued as to why there are replacement bogie side frames included in the box though?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Global said: Having got the two BR era models before Christmas I finally got around to opening these up this afternoon... they look really good and seem to have been finished to a much higher standard than the original Heljan and Olivias releases. I was a bit intrigued as to why there are replacement bogie side frames included in the box though?! It's because BR had two bogie styles for the 58, which were very similar. CP3 fitted to the first 35 and CP3a fitted to the final 15. Heljan leave it to the buyer to fit the correct type. The CP3a type have sandboxes at the cab end. The bogie sideframes are push fitted in place. Edited January 30, 2021 by rembrow 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 28/01/2021 at 23:06, adb968008 said: Unless GBRF grabbed them, took them to Stoke, put a 66 body side and roof panels on them and turned them in to class 61’s... aiui any ex-BR loco has to be offered for sale before disposal, regardless where it is or condition, which is maybe why EWS hasnt yet dumped em and left them to rot. we can dream, but ex-56 now 69001 is load bank testing this week and that was unthinkable a few years ago. stange world we live in, when a preserved 56 becomes a fully rebuilt mainline loco ... The future 69015, formerly known as 56312, formerly known as 56003 freshly preserved from Booths scrapyard and repainted at the ELR in 2008... who would think that Preservation 13 years ago was little more than a mid-life garden leave. I think it makes 56003 a very unique engine in that sense. Given no UK loading gauge euro emissions spec diesel exists, more rebuilds may be the future...intact 58 body shells are still “rebuilds”, still someday have to be sold, and theres precious little else out there anyone can rebuild or new build for UK loading gauge.. thats why GBRF is doing what its doing. EWS ? It’s been DB since 2009 ish... How about a large underground bunker where they are building brand new diesels that look just like 56s to get round the emissions palaver....suddenly there’s 250 of them in the rails..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, rob D2 said: EWS ? It’s been DB since 2009 ish... How about a large underground bunker where they are building brand new diesels that look just like 56s to get round the emissions palaver....suddenly there’s 250 of them in the rails..... Strategic reserve ? i’d prefer they pull the Duchesses out if myself, save the 56’s for a rainy day. Now if someone does a ringer, cuts a loco into two halves, and does rebuilds, do both halves qualify for grandfather rights ? Then theres triggers broom.. If Scotsman is still original, then BR locos could be around for decades to come... “sure its a rebuild.. the door handle used to be on a 47...” Edited February 2, 2021 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Valid points. And the NRM is full of steam engines and polish coal is cheap ? GBRF liveried “ cookham manor “ would probably fuel a few heart attacks amongst the more senior copper top fans 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 19:05, rembrow said: It's because BR had two bogie styles for the 58, which were very similar. CP3 fitted to the first 35 and CP3a fitted to the final 15. Heljan leave it to the buyer to fit the correct type. The CP3a type have sandboxes at the cab end. The bogie sideframes are push fitted in place. I wasn't aware Heljan had done both bogies...interesting...they did the same with 33s for some reason....had another set of frames in the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Current situation is 18 or 19 locos broken up (depending on the status of 58022 which is being used as the basis for the recreation of the Ivatt diesel. With the remainder still at alizay in france or albacete in Spain 58016 and 58023 are preserved and are works in progress with 58012 and 58048 not currently started on and stored at shackerstone. the problem with the Heljan one apart from the above observations ,was that on the trainload grey locos the cab doors were supposed to have been painted black. And weren’t on some. I do remember on the Olivias trains site you could pay an additional fee and get them painted black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 13 hours ago, rob D2 said: And the NRM is full of steam engines and polish coal is cheap ? And sometimes has a calorific value near zero... Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) On 03/02/2021 at 08:43, Roy Langridge said: And sometimes has a calorific value near zero... Roy good stuff Polish coal... it helps you spot where the train is when its camoflaged Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielP Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 19:05, rembrow said: It's because BR had two bogie styles for the 58, which were very similar. CP3 fitted to the first 35 and CP3a fitted to the final 15. Heljan leave it to the buyer to fit the correct type. The CP3a type have sandboxes at the cab end. The bogie sideframes are push fitted in place. Thanks, I was wondering the same thing and now I can see the difference. With 58039 EWS they included what appear to be 4 white metal handrails but I can’t see anywhere they could be fitted, am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP82 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 19:05, rembrow said: It's because BR had two bogie styles for the 58, which were very similar. CP3 fitted to the first 35 and CP3a fitted to the final 15. Heljan leave it to the buyer to fit the correct type. The CP3a type have sandboxes at the cab end. The bogie sideframes are push fitted in place. Another case of checking photos as bogie swaps occurred during their service life with BR, EWS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 9 hours ago, DanielP said: Thanks, I was wondering the same thing and now I can see the difference. With 58039 EWS they included what appear to be 4 white metal handrails but I can’t see anywhere they could be fitted, am I missing something? They're not just white metal handrails - the red bits are important too! They are alternative "filled in" handrails to replace the original ones inboard of the cab doors. Again, reference to photographs is important to determine if/when these were fitted on particular locos... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielP Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 20 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said: They're not just white metal handrails - the red bits are important too! They are alternative "filled in" handrails to replace the original ones inboard of the cab doors. Again, reference to photographs is important to determine if/when these were fitted on particular locos... The "filled in" ones were factory fitted, and match all the photographs I can find for this loco, so I guess the simple handrails are redundant in this case. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, DanielP said: The "filled in" ones were factory fitted, and match all the photographs I can find for this loco, so I guess the simple handrails are redundant in this case. Fair enough - I've actually got 58016 (someone was selling off some Olivia's locos off cheap(er)), which is the other way round (simple handrails fitted), just haven't got round to the photo research yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielP Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 33 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said: Fair enough - I've actually got 58016 (someone was selling off some Olivia's locos off cheap(er)), which is the other way round (simple handrails fitted), just haven't got round to the photo research yet... Quick search on Flickr suggests that for 58016 they change from open to closed style when the EWS livery is applied. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 12 hours ago, DanielP said: Thanks, I was wondering the same thing and now I can see the difference. With 58039 EWS they included what appear to be 4 white metal handrails but I can’t see anywhere they could be fitted, am I missing something? Again there are two styles of handrails between the cab and the engine compartment. I believe the simple open type were fitted from new, the taller filled in type were an in service modification as a health and safety change, to prevent the crew from getting to the engine compartment along the chassis. Not all locos seem to have received the mod as there are photos of 58s in late liveries with the simpler open type, so photo evidence is required for the particular loco. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 On 11/02/2021 at 11:49, rembrow said: Again there are two styles of handrails between the cab and the engine compartment. I believe the simple open type were fitted from new, the taller filled in type were an in service modification as a health and safety change, to prevent the crew from getting to the engine compartment along the chassis. Not all locos seem to have received the mod as there are photos of 58s in late liveries with the simpler open type, so photo evidence is required for the particular loco. If anyone is after a set of Heljan door guards I might have a set or two? PM me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellwar Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) On 08/04/2021 at 17:41, gridwatcher said: If anyone is after a set of Heljan door guards I might have a set or two? PM me. @gridwatcher Would you still have these, need a set for Triple grey livery ideally but can repaint if not. Thanks Edited December 22, 2021 by russellwar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 was kinda hoping the EWS version would drop in price but i haven't seen it under £145 at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielP Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) KMS Railtech had it in their Advent sale, and may put it back on sale again at some point. Edited January 23, 2022 by DanielP fix 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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