Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Cor-onGRT4]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Sounds like the DDP option will favour the big boys then, as I assume there are transaction costs for the seller to offer this?

It looks like we pay the transaction cost by ourselves, yesterday i ordered Hattons to ship my trunk contents, the shipping by DPD courier for under 4 kg has changed now from 9 pounds by road , now only possible by air and amount of 29,- pounds , so three times higher than before, think the handling cost are now included in the shipping cost, but hassle when receiving the goods is gone, this is all taken care for by Hattons. 

[tetsudofan]

During the last couple of years I've been purchasing some European stuff (mainly Piko, Roco and LGB) from Modellbahnshop Lippe and as of December 31st I had one outstanding preorder.

 

Instead of cancelling the order I decided not to cancel the order so that I could see the cost and how such transactions will be handled in the future.

 

On February 4th MSL advised me that the item was in stock so I immediately placed my order bearing in mind that MSL were removing the German VAT and increasing the mailing cost from 

Euros 3.90 (MSL Premium member rate) to Euros 9.90 (the same rate that they charge for shipments to Switzerland).

 

The amount due amounted to Euros 264.40 (which included a MSL Premium credit of Euros 23.00) which later appeared on my credit card statement as £240.72. Adding back the MSL Premium credit the full purchase price would have been about £262.00

 

On February 11th MSL advised that the shipment had been handed to DHL for forwarding to the UK.

 

Later that day I looked at the DHL tracking and they advised that they had the item and that it was being forwarded to the UK where it would be handed to ParcelForce (whereas all previous shipments had gone to DHL/UKMail) for delivery to me.

 

Looking at the ParcelForce tracking they advise that the item has left its origin country and is on its way to the UK.

 

In due course I'll update this message as and when I get further information from ParcelForce to enable me to ascertain the total cost of shipping the item from the EU to the UK.

 

In the meantime I've looked at the Gaugemaster website where Roco 70379 (shown as not yet released) is priced at £355.00

 

Keith

 

 

[Andymsa]

17 hours ago, tetsudofan said:

During the last couple of years I've been purchasing some European stuff (mainly Piko, Roco and LGB) from Modellbahnshop Lippe and as of December 31st I had one outstanding preorder.

 

Instead of cancelling the order I decided not to cancel the order so that I could see the cost and how such transactions will be handled in the future.

 

On February 4th MSL advised me that the item was in stock so I immediately placed my order bearing in mind that MSL were removing the German VAT and increasing the mailing cost from 

Euros 3.90 (MSL Premium member rate) to Euros 9.90 (the same rate that they charge for shipments to Switzerland).

 

The amount due amounted to Euros 264.40 (which included a MSL Premium credit of Euros 23.00) which later appeared on my credit card statement as £240.72. Adding back the MSL Premium credit the full purchase price would have been about £262.00

 

On February 11th MSL advised that the shipment had been handed to DHL for forwarding to the UK.

 

Later that day I looked at the DHL tracking and they advised that they had the item and that it was being forwarded to the UK where it would be handed to ParcelForce (whereas all previous shipments had gone to DHL/UKMail) for delivery to me.

 

Looking at the ParcelForce tracking they advise that the item has left its origin country and is on its way to the UK.

 

In due course I'll update this message as and when I get further information from ParcelForce to enable me to ascertain the total cost of shipping the item from the EU to the UK.

 

In the meantime I've looked at the Gaugemaster website where Roco 70379 (shown as not yet released) is priced at £355.00

 

Keith

 

 

I have had exactly the same experience as you, but parcel force delivered without any issues. Eg no duties paid at all, so I still am none the wiser how things will go. As to the shipping increase I’m unsure about this.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Andymsa

[etendam]

On 12/02/2021 at 16:17, Cor-onGRT4 said:

Hattons is shipping DDP for every amount, because they also collect the VAT below this amount [22,- eu], but this VAT is also obligated to be paid to the dutch tax office if VAT registred in the country they ship to with DDP .

 

Hattons are not shipping ALL shipments DDP. There are examples on other forums where buyers still had to pay on delivery. The shipping costs of these smaller orders were also just £ 5. But when you then have to pay € 46,50 at the courier.........then shopping outside the EU becomes less interesting.

 

Ed

[cheekychops]

Postage for magazines etc is increased - e.g. VGBahn for a 'special' edition on BR120 - cost Eur15, postage Eur9.95. According to relatives in Germany postage to the UK is in the same class as the US, and very expensive. It might well be cheaper in future to travel to Germany and 'stock-up'.

[Ian Hargrave]

Interesting thread. A minefield obviously. Since the turn of the year,I have bought items from Berlin,Frankfurt,Milan via eBay (twice) and from both Menzels and Modellbahn Union,two familiar dealers. I have experienced no difficulties until now with a latest delivery from the last mentioned.It has been sent via UPS and has been stalled in their transit deposit in Germany due to “Brexit related issues “ ( VAT issues ? ) for nearly a week. I have also experienced two refusals and refunds of eBay purchases one from Italy and the other from Graz in Austria. Some retailers seem to have deleted the UK from their online list of countries to which they will send. I suppose everything is in a confusing state of flux and is only to be expected until everything settles into a properly regulated trading rhythm.

[Andy Hayter]

Ebay should not be an issue since they are adding in the necessary duty and VAT charges.  I guess the problems will be those sellers who do not subscribe to the Global Shipping Program - which until now I have personally hated.  

[etendam]

18 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Ebay should not be an issue since they are adding in the necessary duty and VAT charges.  I guess the problems will be those sellers who do not subscribe to the Global Shipping Program - which until now I have personally hated.  

Ebay does only take care of the duty and VAT in the US, the UK and a few EU countries. The seller has to register at the HMRC to get an UK EORI number and pay for the VAT for all purchases below £135 done by consumers. More then 80% of the EU business sellers refuse to do this and therefor block the shipping to the UK or they just sell above the £135 (as then the buyer is responsible for the VAT and the seller doesn't have to register) or to businesses as this applies only to consumers. The managed payments are also not applicable in all EU countries. (Not in Italy and Austria)

 

Secondly the Ebay GSP in the Netherlands is more then double the shipping costs when I arrange the shipping myself. My buyers don't like it when the shipping costs are excessive! The Ebay GSP is hardly used in many EU countries and is mainly used in the US and UK. Last year we lowered the shipping prices (by swapping to another shipper with a larger volume contract) and this resulted directly in 30% more sales. As my competitor is located in the UK and having the issues with double VAT (The VAT is handled by Ebay but when shipping with Royal Mail another shipper delivers in the EU and then often they also charge a handling fee and VAT again!) As described on other forums when shipping with one shipper (DHL, DPD, Fedex) then you don't have double VAT but for low value items £ 25 to £ 30 shipping costs isn't an option. This increased our sales with another 200% from January.

From July 2021, the €22 VAT exemption on small parcels being imported into the EU for delivery to consumers will be withdrawn. So for low value items every shipment will have a handling fee of the shipper and VAT. Further reading: https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-e-commerce-vat-package.html

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

On 20/02/2021 at 15:28, Ian Hargrave said:

Interesting thread. A minefield obviously. Since the turn of the year,I have bought items from Berlin,Frankfurt,Milan via eBay (twice) and from both Menzels and Modellbahn Union,two familiar dealers. I have experienced no difficulties until now with a latest delivery from the last mentioned.It has been sent via UPS and has been stalled in their transit deposit in Germany due to “Brexit related issues “ ( VAT issues ? ) for nearly a week. I have also experienced two refusals and refunds of eBay purchases one from Italy and the other from Graz in Austria. Some retailers seem to have deleted the UK from their online list of countries to which they will send. I suppose everything is in a confusing state of flux and is only to be expected until everything settles into a properly regulated trading rhythm.

 
After 11 days stalled at Herne Boernig UPS in Germany,my package finally made UK landfall at Stanford le hope Essex at 15:10 just. Delay such as this is to be expected I suppose.

[Allegheny1600]

Just the luck of the draw, I guess.

One of my friends very recently made a purchase from Lippe and it arrived in Manchester within about four days, no unwelcome extra charges. It was an ESU loco so, well above the £135 mark.

[Andy Hayter]

It has been reported that UK customs will be taking a relaxed view on some imports until1.7.2021.

 

I read this to mean they don't have the resource to police every item entering the country.

 

Sadly EU customs seem to be better prepared.

[Oldddudders]

I bought a non-railway item from Amazon.uk costing £1k. Amazon correctly deducted 20% VAT, but then added in £10 p&p, which is fair enough, and £237 "Import Fees Deposit" which is a good catchall. Since TVA here is the same rate as VAT in the UK, someone somewhere is making some money. Interestingly my card was not charged until after the item had been delivered! Most galling of all, mind you, was that the item was actually despatched from Italy....

[LimboBrit]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I bought a non-railway item from Amazon.uk costing £1k. Amazon correctly deducted 20% VAT, but then added in £10 p&p, which is fair enough, and £237 "Import Fees Deposit" which is a good catchall. Since TVA here is the same rate as VAT in the UK, someone somewhere is making some money. Interestingly my card was not charged until after the item had been delivered! Most galling of all, mind you, was that the item was actually despatched from Italy....

With the benefit of hindsight would it have been possible to order on Amazon's Italian website?

[Colin_McLeod]

28 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

With the benefit of hindsight would it have been possible to order on Amazon's Italian website?

 

A lot of Irish, self included,  are now ordering from Amazon.de and Amazon.fr and it neatly avoids all this hassle as it's an internal EU transaction.

[Oldddudders]

28 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

With the benefit of hindsight would it have been possible to order on Amazon's Italian website?

It's about methods of payment.  I have an a/c w Amazon.fr, too - but that means paying straight from my bank account, while using my UK credit card with Amazon.uk defers payment a little, and UK prices are generally keener. With Amazon you have no idea whence the item will come. The 200 bird-feed fatballs I ordered on Amazon.fr turned up today from the Netherlands.....

[Ian Hargrave]

On 22/02/2021 at 16:31, Ian Hargrave said:

 
After 11 days stalled at Herne Boernig UPS in Germany,my package finally made UK landfall at Stanford le hope Essex at 15:10 just. Delay such as this is to be expected I suppose.

  
According to UPS tracking it was delivered outside my front door at 13:08 today. Except that it wasn’t. “Proof of delivery “ was a text attached to the track page with “completed delivery “ .  No email announcement of complete delivery or any photographic evidence . It appears to me to be an elaborate way of escaping the fact that UPS have lost it and of avoiding responsibility for it. I’ve scoured the exterior of the property and it’s nowhere to be seen. I shall,of course pursue the matter in the morning but any information and advice would be gratefully received in the meantime.

[Jonboy]

Track it this morning and see if there are any later scans recorded in the detailed tracking. Not sure on the ups scanners but on the fedex ones the touchscreen button for “customer unavailable “ is right next to the “ delivered”  button and the drivers have fat fingers.....

 

Failing that call ups on 03457 877 877 and ask if their log shows further details. If it doesn’t then ask them to contact the local depot, ask the driver where he left it, and call you back....drivers are normally very goods for a couple of days after the event but after that newer delivery’s start to push data from their memory’s.

 

once you have exhausted these options it is the sellers responsibility to chase or claim as they hold the contract with UPS.

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

  
According to UPS tracking it was delivered outside my front door at 13:08 today. Except that it wasn’t. “Proof of delivery “ was a text attached to the track page with “completed delivery “ .  No email announcement of complete delivery or any photographic evidence . It appears to me to be an elaborate way of escaping the fact that UPS have lost it and of avoiding responsibility for it. I’ve scoured the exterior of the property and it’s nowhere to be seen. I shall,of course pursue the matter in the morning but any information and advice would be gratefully received in the meantime.

 

Goes to show what a minefield this is, what if you had paid fees and taxes previously to get it delivered, I bet you'd have great fun trying to convince the government that you hadn't received the package.

 

Mike.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

Track it this morning and see if there are any later scans recorded in the detailed tracking. Not sure on the ups scanners but on the fedex ones the touchscreen button for “customer unavailable “ is right next to the “ delivered”  button and the drivers have fat fingers.....

 

Failing that call ups on 03457 877 877 and ask if their log shows further details. If it doesn’t then ask them to contact the local depot, ask the driver where he left it, and call you back....drivers are normally very goods for a couple of days after the event but after that newer delivery’s start to push data from their memory’s.

 

once you have exhausted these options it is the sellers responsibility to chase or claim as they hold the contract with UPS.

 

 

 

Thank you for this and the “where he left it” phrase. And the joke’s on me.I searched as I thought exhaustively using both torch and outside lighting when I logged onto UPS tracking last night to find that the delivery  day had altered from Wednesday ( today) to hey it was delivered hours ago.There was no ring of bell or knock on door whatsoever.I have a wife who is terminally ill and cannot be left in any case.At the time we were in both in the room right next to the “front door” where the “proof of delivery “ states he/she left it.  No email.No text to my phone .

 

Having spent hours awake figuring out how to claim compensation,I have just got up and come downstairs to notice that I had left the front door outside light on due to my search last evening.I even looked through the window from upstairs to see if I could spot a parcel. On opening the front door for another check....bingo! ....there it is .Wedged tightly between a terracotta planter and a low retaining brick wall three steps down and well away from the door.No wonder I didn’t see it in the dark.It took quite an effort to prise it clear of its hiding place.The planter is full of compost and heavy.The cardboard of the parcel is ripped on one corner exposing the inner packaging.Modellbahn Union obviously securely packed it and fortunately it didn’t rain last night.I shall now unpack .And the packaging has done its job.The model is intact Praise be.The documentation in English that it is “Modelrailway items” plain to see taped on parcel. Over the past few months,I’ve used this retailer who has provided excellent service. It is surprising to see what he stocks.First time this hiccup has occurred. Sorry if I made a fuss but I was genuinely concerned.

Maybe posting my experience will help someone else.

 

 

 

 

 

[TTDB]

I’ve just had my first encounter,,,,I won a loco from Spain on eBay, the final remittance for a £85  loco was £132.00 after VAT had been applied but I’ve paid Spanish VAT as well , a personal account seller can’t deduct it, so I feel I’ve helped the Spanish economy as well as the UK, I wanted this loco so not complaining, I give myself an “allowance” on modelling each month and now if purchasing from Europe this has been reduced somewhat, items from Germany that cost a net £100 are going to cost about £150 landed If you have pay German vat then uk vat on top of the model and postage , you see the odd used bargain in Europe that won’t be a bargain any longer f

Edited March 19, 2021 by TTDB

[Porkscratching]

I've just had some small aftermarket detail components arrive straight thru the door, ( smallish jiffy bag)  from EU with no charges, no nonsense, that said they were declared as about 20 euro value so maybe low value things get by under the radar..??

[Pacific231G]

Does anyone know what the situation is with 2nd hand goods bought on e-Bay from EU countries? Are they still subject to UK VAT?

[Jonboy]

It will likely be VAT on the price you pay, because the exchequer didn’t benefit from VAT on the initial new purchase(supply).

[Porkscratching]

I'm wondering if there's a price point where it all kicks in ??..I didn't pay on that small 20€ package, so was either lucky or it was below threshold..

[Andy Hayter]

£36 it's onone of the Government's web pages.