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Buying and Selling models to/from Europe


creweboy
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I made a couple of purchases last week from Catawiki in the Netherlands and Menzels Lokshuppen in Germany. Ordered Tuesday and Monday respectively, and both turned up today. No extra fees, customs or otherwise, or VAT required. Basically how it used to be at the end of last year! 

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On 21/03/2021 at 11:13, Pacific231G said:

Does anyone know what the situation is with 2nd hand goods bought on e-Bay from EU countries? Are they still subject to UK VAT?

Yes they are. When purchased from a business seller he will be responsible for handling the VAT (Ebay will take care of this) to a purchase price incl shipping of £ 135. If bought from a private seller you will be responsible on arrival.

 

Ed

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On 22/03/2021 at 19:55, 5944 said:

I made a couple of purchases last week from Catawiki in the Netherlands and Menzels Lokshuppen in Germany. Ordered Tuesday and Monday respectively, and both turned up today. No extra fees, customs or otherwise, or VAT required. Basically how it used to be at the end of last year! 

If only the inverse were true. I have to pay VAT plus 13 euro customs fees on stuff from the UK now to the Netherlands.  Might be time to go to German railways as a prototype. 

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I've just taken delivery of a quantity of cable from Rapid in the UK, excellent service from them.

 

The initial total was £170, correctly supplied exclusive of UK VAT.

Additional costs were;

DHL carriage £54.25.

Spanish IVA   54.20 Euros.

DHL Admin fee. 43.31 Euros..

I'm left with the feeling DHL are taking the p!ss somewhat.

 

Mike.

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I bought a lens from Amazon uk. Price £1100, but there was a 10% voucher. 

 

Item(s) Subtotal: £760.42

Postage & Packing: £5.07

Total Before VAT: £765.49

VAT: £153.09

Total: £918.58

Promotion Applied: -£91.25

Import Fees Deposit £214.65

Grand Total: £1,041.98

 

So I have still paid less than the original advertised price. 

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On 29/03/2021 at 10:41, Oldddudders said:

I bought a lens from Amazon uk. Price £1100, but there was a 10% voucher. 

An update relating to transit times within Europe. 

 

The lens, as on a previous Amazon order, is coming from Italy, despite being ordered on Amazon uk. It was accepted by the courier, UPS, at 19.03 last night, in Rome. 5 hours later it was in Köln, but by 3.38 it had reached Paris. At 7.50 today it had reached Le Mans, and is now out for delivery. Quite remarkable. 

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On 29/03/2021 at 07:36, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I've just taken delivery of a quantity of cable from Rapid in the UK, excellent service from them.

 

The initial total was £170, correctly supplied exclusive of UK VAT.

Additional costs were;

DHL carriage £54.25.

Spanish IVA   54.20 Euros.

DHL Admin fee. 43.31 Euros..

I'm left with the feeling DHL are taking the p!ss somewhat.

 

Mike.

Once the initial label is produced, it is a matter of zapping it and letting computer systems do the rest, so pure profit.  And if Rapid generated the label, then the Admin fee is near enough 100% pure profit for DHL.

Perhaps an e-mail to the CEO of Rapid, extolling their product then explaining you won't order from them again  because the DHL admin fee makes them uncompetitive.  Might make them think.  Bill 

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UPS is able to get items ordered from Modellbahn Shop-Lippe to me in three to four days here in the States. Never had a problem with the UPS Express Saver and it's a flat rate €27.5 for anything you order. Customs clearance is included on both ends too and no VAT or import duty on what the US considers 'toy trains'.

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17 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

So it looks as though you also need to pay Spanish VAT on the DHL shipping fees. Otherwise I don't think the figures add up

 

14 hours ago, bbishop said:

Once the initial label is produced, it is a matter of zapping it and letting computer systems do the rest, so pure profit.  And if Rapid generated the label, then the Admin fee is near enough 100% pure profit for DHL.

Perhaps an e-mail to the CEO of Rapid, extolling their product then explaining you won't order from them again  because the DHL admin fee makes them uncompetitive.  Might make them think.  Bill 

 

I'm on with trying to sort it out, but regrettably, customer service and care are filed under Santa Claus and a happy woman here in Spain, heard of but doesn't exist, I'm attempting to get a fully itemised bill from DHL (who basically have taken over SEUR who were a sh!t company previously) but they don't reply to emails and you just get fobbed off with a go away and stop bothering me attitude on the phone, which is standard issue for most companies in Spain.

I will be dropping a note to Rapid though.

As an aside, I was notified by DHL via email on the 29th of a delivery that I would be receiving on the 30th (yesterday), needless to say, I'm still waiting.

It makes me smile when you in the UK complain about the various delivery companies you have, their crap service is leagues ahead of anything available over here!

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

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A trainload of Brexit issues

 

The Financial Times had an article with that headline on 25 March.  Obviously trading things across the EU border in general is more difficult now.  Here's the model railway related bit:

 

...Nearly three months after the UK left the EU’s single market, people are finding little to give them hope that difficulties in securing parcels from shops or friends across the border are easing. Many parcels are locked in customs sitting for weeks in vast warehouses near the British border waiting for checks and delivery. Some… never arrive. Others face unexpected customs duties, VAT and handling fees, leading to widespread complaints of doorstep shocks and demands from parcel handlers.

 

But it is not just about costs and inconvenience, for many the new rules are creating invisible barriers between friends, family and straining long-established networks of colleagues and clients across Europe.

 

Adrian Bagley, a semi-retired architect who buys and sells model trains from collectors in the EU said while the additional charges levied as a result of Brexit annoyed him, it was the impact on his place in a multinational community of buyers, sellers and fellow enthusiasts that upset him.

 

“I feel like a semi-invisible barrier has come down between me and all those countries I had previously been on the same footing with, when we were all following the same rules. Now I feel I’ve been cut off by duties and so-called ‘handling charges’,” he said. Bagley used the Dutch-based auction website Catawiki to purchase a Roco model steam engine from a vendor in Germany for €250.49 — above the £135 threshold for paying VAT at point of sale.

 

Even though electric model trains are zero-tariff rated in the UK’s global tariff schedule, on collection from his local Parcelforce depot, Bagley was asked to pay a total of £53.56, comprised of £41.06 in VAT and a handling fee of £12.50 — roughly a 25 per cent surcharge.

 

The extra costs disadvantage Bagley in a marketplace because EU purchasers will always underbid for his products to allow for the extra costs of receiving goods from the UK, while making it harder for him to match EU bids on products from buyers based in the bloc who will not need to pay VAT and other charges.

 

The penalties also operate the other way, with an aggrieved Italian buyer emailing Bagley to ask why he had to pay €22.68 in duties for a model train he had purchased. “Was everything not included in the shipping costs?” Bagley emailed the site to say that his days selling model trains on Catawiki appeared to be coming to an end. The company said it is doing “everything we can” to support UK sellers and buyers through the transition.

 

Other parcels have required esoteric certification to pass customs such as passport numbers or, in the case of one pair of boots ordered at Christmas, a power of attorney...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 22/03/2021 at 18:55, 5944 said:

I made a couple of purchases last week from Catawiki in the Netherlands and Menzels Lokshuppen in Germany. Ordered Tuesday and Monday respectively, and both turned up today. No extra fees, customs or otherwise, or VAT required. Basically how it used to be at the end of last year! 

Ive just received a card this morning from Royal Mail to say I need to pay £20.70 (£12.70 tax and £8 handling fee) for a couple of the new Liliput BLS EWIII coaches I have ordered from Wemoba (Chf 143.50), these aren't available in the UK so had buy them elsewhere. I was going to get them delivered to my sister-in-law in Switzerland and pick them up next time we visit but as we haven't been able to visit for over a year and no idea when we will next be able to do so I decided to get them shipped here, I wont be doing that again......

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6 minutes ago, bantam61668 said:

Ive just received a card this morning from Royal Mail to say I need to pay £20.70 (£12.70 tax and £8 handling fee) for a couple of the new Liliput BLS EWIII coaches I have ordered from Wemoba (Chf 143.50), these aren't available in the UK so had buy them elsewhere. I was going to get them delivered to my sister-in-law in Switzerland and pick them up next time we visit but as we haven't been able to visit for over a year and no idea when we will next be able to do so I decided to get them shipped here, I wont be doing that again......

 

The issue with collecting them yourself is that we don't know what paperwork/restrictions/declarations will need to be made when a UK to EU/European visit is made.

I reckon there will more than likely be a form to be filled in to confirm that you aren't taking any taxable/tarriffable goods out of the country, similar to the foodstuffs and similar forms that Australia, as an example, has, and if you are economical with the truth and get stopped at a custom checkpoint the sky is the limit as to what the outcome may be, after all, it is smuggling, be it trains or drugs.

 

Mike.

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36 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The issue with collecting them yourself is that we don't know what paperwork/restrictions/declarations will need to be made when a UK to EU/European visit is made.

I reckon there will more than likely be a form to be filled in to confirm that you aren't taking any taxable/tarriffable goods out of the country, similar to the foodstuffs and similar forms that Australia, as an example, has, and if you are economical with the truth and get stopped at a custom checkpoint the sky is the limit as to what the outcome may be, after all, it is smuggling, be it trains or drugs.

 

Mike.

Indeed so. Before Brexit, Eurostar customers had all the formalities dealt with at St Pancras, and as the journey was within the EU, items in baggage were of no interest to customs. I believe on and from  Jan 1st, any Eurostar actually carrying passengers has been met at Gare du Nord by customs officers keen to know what you have brought with you. The world has changed.

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52 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The issue with collecting them yourself is that we don't know what paperwork/restrictions/declarations will need to be made when a UK to EU/European visit is made.

I reckon there will more than likely be a form to be filled in to confirm that you aren't taking any taxable/tarriffable goods out of the country, similar to the foodstuffs and similar forms that Australia, as an example, has, and if you are economical with the truth and get stopped at a custom checkpoint the sky is the limit as to what the outcome may be, after all, it is smuggling, be it trains or drugs.

 

Mike.

True, I remember when I moved back to the UK after living in Switzerland  for a few years going through the goods to declare channel at Heathrow. When asked what I had I showed them a bag full of HAG locos, all of which had receipts in the boxes. The customs official laughed and said that they didn't worry about toys........ Saved a bit of money there, you win some, you loose some

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48 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The issue with collecting them yourself is that we don't know what paperwork/restrictions/declarations will need to be made when a UK to EU/European visit is made.

I reckon there will more than likely be a form to be filled in to confirm that you aren't taking any taxable/tarriffable goods out of the country, similar to the foodstuffs and similar forms that Australia, as an example, has, and if you are economical with the truth and get stopped at a custom checkpoint the sky is the limit as to what the outcome may be, after all, it is smuggling, be it trains or drugs.

 

Mike.

 

AIUI there are limits as to what can be transported in personal luggage (bit like the old duty free) as permanent exports / imports

 

Certainly when I crossed from Belarus to Poland by train luggage was x rayed and inspected  far more than going the other way.

 

If in doubt the red channel would be the route to go. If duty is due then so be it, but at least there will be nothing else to worry about.

 

It will make the Eurotunnel experience interesting.

 

Andy

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30 minutes ago, bantam61668 said:

True, I remember when I moved back to the UK after living in Switzerland  for a few years going through the goods to declare channel at Heathrow. When asked what I had I showed them a bag full of HAG locos, all of which had receipts in the boxes. The customs official laughed and said that they didn't worry about toys........ Saved a bit of money there, you win some, you loose some

UK bureaucracy is by no means the most labyrinthine in Europe. When we moved to France in 2004, we needed to re-register my 3-y-o RHD Skoda. In order to do this we had to provide evidence that VAT had been paid on the original purchase, and, despite it being an EU-manufactured car being imported from one EU state to another, we also had to provide an EU Statement of Conformity, which cost us £50.  

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10 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The issue with collecting them yourself is that we don't know what paperwork/restrictions/declarations will need to be made when a UK to EU/European visit is made.

I reckon there will more than likely be a form to be filled in to confirm that you aren't taking any taxable/tarriffable goods out of the country, similar to the foodstuffs and similar forms that Australia, as an example, has, and if you are economical with the truth and get stopped at a custom checkpoint the sky is the limit as to what the outcome may be, after all, it is smuggling, be it trains or drugs.

 

Mike.

 

There is the ability to bring goods into the UK duty and VAT free up to a limit of IIRC around £300 - it's a bit more but I cannot remember the exact amount.  It does not apply to alcohol and tobacco but models are OK.

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3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

There is the ability to bring goods into the UK duty and VAT free up to a limit of IIRC around £300 - it's a bit more but I cannot remember the exact amount.  It does not apply to alcohol and tobacco but models are OK.

 

The figure of £390 springs to mind

 

Not a lot if you include a loco or two a couple of coaches and the other holiday souvenirs that you seem to accumulate 

 

Andy

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When returning from the UK to the EU the limit for goods is €430. I’m assuming that this applies per adult. If you’re traveling by private boat or plane the allowances are less (€300) for some reason. 

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11 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

There is the ability to bring goods into the UK duty and VAT free up to a limit of IIRC around £300 - it's a bit more but I cannot remember the exact amount.  It does not apply to alcohol and tobacco but models are OK.

 

8 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

The figure of £390 springs to mind

 

Not a lot if you include a loco or two a couple of coaches and the other holiday souvenirs that you seem to accumulate 

 

Andy

 

8 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

When returning from the UK to the EU the limit for goods is €430. I’m assuming that this applies per adult. If you’re traveling by private boat or plane the allowances are less (€300) for some reason. 

 

Does this have to be declared in some way?

 

Mike.

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1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

 

 

Does this have to be declared in some way?

 

Mike.

 

One presumes in the red channel. 

 

 Getting caught in the green with 5 or 6  locos might be a little awkward

 

 Question is, is the limit on VAT paid ( at point of sale) or VAT free for export goods 

 

The keeping of receipts will be necessary methinks.

 

Andy

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