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Buying and Selling models to/from Europe


creweboy
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18 hours ago, Simond said:

please don’t underestimate the costs of meeting & maintaining the TCF, and pray nobody decides that if it’s in English, the EU will no longer accept it, as the cost of translation would be painful.  Neither should one underestimate the costs of validation & certification generally.  It’s a significant part of the development cost of a new product.  Then again, it’s much cheaper than defending a lawsuit for negligence or worse, if one of your customers were injured by a poorly designed, untested product.

 

Surely, English remains an official language of the EU, as it's used in Ireland and Malta?

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5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

My emergency plan: Hold the orders, save the money, then take a train 1-2 times annually to a UK exhibition with lots of small traders.

 

Not much of an emergency actually, I'm beginning to like the idea!

 

My thoughts as well.  The problem being those items that are likely to sell out in the weeks after release - indeed if not before release.  

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7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

My emergency plan: Hold the orders, save the money, then take a train 1-2 times annually to a UK exhibition with lots of small traders.

 

Not much of an emergency actually, I'm beginning to like the idea!

That reminds me, we must visit our relatives in Copenhagen, perhaps to coincide with a show

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2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It would seem a "safe house" in the UK might be one possibility to enable us Johnny Foreigners to continue our UK oriented hobby?

 

Mike.

Well, there's Hattons Trunk service — though not much use if you want Bachmann products at the moment — nor possibly Hornby either given current issues. Of course both of these have subsidiaries in the EU, although, having said that, the Hornby International models have often been harder than you'd expect to find in the UK; by contrast Liliput is (relatively) straightforward.

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31 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

the Hornby International models have often been harder than you'd expect to find in the UK; by contrast Liliput is (relatively) straightforward.

The Hornby, Hornby international, Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan and many other UK brands are in Europe distributed by Modellbahn Union and all the N gauge models at their other company DM-Toys

 

Ed

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Boy, am I glad that I have acquired all the necessary bits for my Spur Null project.  Höchstädt (mark 2) is in abeyance until I can have a second person in the garage, so I'm working on Blindheim for the Small Layout Competition at Guildex.  If you are wondering why two layouts, Blindheim was planned as a scenic block in front of a fiddle yard.  It was meant to be the final build but rather got promoted.  Bill

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On 26/04/2021 at 21:07, railroadbill said:

Well, having followed everyone's experience on this thread...

 

I was "watching" a loco on e-bay being offered as buy it now by a German model shop.   The potential complications now in buying it and having it sent to the UK  had put me off.  Anyway, they dropped the price, I bought it.

 

1. E-bay has charged VAT as a separate additional cost. This appears to be UK VAT,   it is 20% which is the UK rate. (Germany is 19%).  E-bay note is "According to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier".

 

2. The package is being sent by DHL, so far it's reached the stage "Weiterleitung zur Exportbearbeitung"  (forwarded to export processing) which looks hopeful.  The process has at least started.

 

3.  The VAT was applied to item cost and shipping. The price is well under £135 so E-Bay was collecting the VAT as it should.

 

I shall wait and see, hopefully everything has now been paid unless DHL come up with some further processing charge.  I'll report back, hopefully favourably!

 

 

This is the rest of the story. The package was dispatched on Monday 25 April and I received it  late morning on Thursday 29 April.  This was sent by DHL.  So a successful purchase. 

As this relates to previous posts, this is what the attached customs declaration stated,

 

1. In the middle of my address was a reference starting GB which looked like a VAT number and finished with "code=paid".  I assume that that was for the 20% UK VAT that E-bay had collected.

 

2. The description of content was "Toy train lok".  (That was of course correct!)

 

3. The HS tariff number was 95030030 which has been stated on this thread as being the "toy train" one.

 

This was all on a Deutsche Post form that had been filled in on line. There were 2 copies of the form in the clear envelope stuck to the package.

 

I didn't have to pay any further charges to receive the package, quite correctly.

 

What wasn't clear was if the shop itself was registered for UK VAT or E-Bay themselves did it for them as the E-bay web page for the item stated "we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier".

 

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1 hour ago, railroadbill said:

1. In the middle of my address was a reference starting GB which looked like a VAT number and finished with "code=paid".  I assume that that was for the 20% UK VAT that E-bay had collected.

 

What wasn't clear was if the shop itself was registered for UK VAT or E-Bay themselves did it for them as the E-bay web page for the item stated "we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier".

 

 

The VAT number with code PAID is from the PayPal payment. Ebay is taking care of the VAT. As mentioned before if this line is mentioned on the address you don't get additional costs! My wife has done this multiple times with buyers from the UK and it all works fine.

 

A shop/company doesn't have to be registered for the UK VAT if they handle ALL the sales to UK buyers through EBAY , Amazon or other selling places. This saves additional work and you don't have to pay your bookkeeper an additional fee for handling the UK VAT at the HMRC.

 

A lot of sellers on the German Ebay are not aware of this and they blocked the shipping to the UK. Just open Ebay.de and change your Postal code and City somewhere in Germany. Google for a hotel in a city to get the info. On some categories you will notice there are 50 times more Ads then when leaving your shipping address to your own. If a seller just want to ship in Germany, I simply sent a message and ask if he also can ship to my country and 4 out of 5 are willing to do so.

 

Ed

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That's very useful info, etendam,  looks like buying from EU into UK could go on being OK provided it's through E-bay or similar. I haven't tried this but presumably if I bought something on Amazon.de they would deal with UK VAT in a similar way?

 

Re CE mark.  The loco I bought (Liliput from the pre-Bachmann, made in Austria, era)  doesn't have CE marks and neither does the box.  From comments earlier in the thread it looks as if that could be a problem for this type of purchase in the future (although that would depend on the UK attitude to CE marks or no CE marks when the CA mark comes in here).

 

 

 

 

As an aside, the loco I bought is a DB class 91 2-6-0T.  Took a while to track down (there's also a Fleischmann HO model of this) and I missed a couple that were UK sales on E-bay.  They don't exactly come up very often (!) and there's obviously a much better chance of finding one from a German seller (being a German loco).  i wanted one because these are similar to locos used on Danish private railways once upon a time and I've traveled behind one on a preserved railway.  It's the closest I'm going to get to one in HO scale.  It's an almost right loco that looks good running round the layout pulling some almost right coaches.....:)

 

 

 

 

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On 02/05/2021 at 20:07, railroadbill said:

I haven't tried this but presumably if I bought something on Amazon.de they would deal with UK VAT in a similar way?

 

Re CE mark.  The loco I bought (Liliput from the pre-Bachmann, made in Austria, era)  doesn't have CE marks and neither does the box.  From comments earlier in the thread it looks as if that could be a problem for this type of purchase in the future (although that would depend on the UK attitude to CE marks or no CE marks when the CA mark comes in here).

Amazon handles the VAT the same as Ebay. The seller should just mention the VAT Number on the shipment.

 

There have always been exceptions regarding the CE Mark. The most commonly used one is that the item isn't suitable for children under 14 years. this is still valid if you produce items within the EU but doesn't count anymore when you import items from Outside the EU. Like the example mentioned before (Royal Mail / France) items that are imported with a HS code for toys or Electrical equipment must have a CE Mark. (and the authorised representative!) 

 

So soon you can't sent items anymore under the HS code for modeltrains soon but in lots of other HS categories there are other restrictions or tariffs. But if the customs opens you shipment and they find modeltrains that are not properly classified they will hold the shipment. Without the CE mark on the items and the address of the authorised representative, they will not let it enter the EU. Even if you have the paperwork!

 

The most odd thing still is that when the item is produced within the EU you still don't need a CE mark in some cases. The EU tries to protect the internal market with this, I assume? So the easiest option will be shipping raw materials / parts and assemble/pack items in the EU but for some companies this is easier said then getting it done.

 

Ed

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That's very helpful info, Ed.  One thought is that it looks like it would be best to look for any wanted train items now before things get even worse....

 

I looked up the details of some other model railway parts I bought from a German shop via Ebay last year, (an LGB  controller) and the  shipping was the same price, 15 euros.  But then there was no UK VAT to pay of course (VAT may or not have been paid in Germany).

 

I've also bought a couple of railway DVDs from Germany in the past, think that was through Amazon (the UK site).  Don't know what category these would now come in.

 

Bill.

 

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On 01/05/2021 at 17:59, etendam said:

The Hornby, Hornby international, Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan and many other UK brands are in Europe distributed by Modellbahn Union and all the N gauge models at their other company DM-Toys

 

Ed

Does this mean that those of us living in the EU can purchase our Hornby, Bachmann etc from Modellbahn and thereby bypass all the new problems involved in shipping from the U.K.?

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I am pretty sure that Hornby will be VAT registered in France (Jouef) and Italy (Rivarossi) and possibly Germany (Arnold); and Bachmann presumably in Germany (Liliput), so I would expect them to be able to organise shipments of UK models without creating mega import issues for the customer.  

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Hornby closed the German office a few years ago but they just opened a distribution center in the Netherlands. (They were well prepared for the Brexit and the new IOSS system.)

 

Within the EU from July 1st you just need one EU VAT number and don't have to be registered then in each country anymore.

The VAT treshold for each country is lowered to a total export within the EU to € 10.000 a year. (Combined total of all shipments to other countries) If you are above the limit then you should either have a VAT number for each country where you export to and pay the VAT in each country or request for just one EU Vat number in the EU country where you pay the VAT. They will forward the VAT to the countries for you, this saves time and a lot of money.

 

Ed

 

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Hornby seem to have their act together.  They advertise the forthcoming Prince of Wales loco at £209.99 including UK VAT at 20%

 

Once I placed an order and the website knows I am in Ireland, the price changes to accurately reflect the Irish VAT at 23%.

 

£174.99 + 20% = £209.99

£174.99 + 23% = £215.24

 

 

Screenshot_20210507-195937_Outlook.jpg.76d067c9866fe232e89ef5805bbf174b.jpg

 

Screenshot_20210507-195856_Outlook.jpg.7e3b51205fc3eb57eed21990f4ade9c4.jpg

 

Edited by Colin_McLeod
typo
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1 minute ago, irishmail said:

Would customs duties be liable on that as its over €150.00/ £135.00?

 

Nope!

 

As has been explained many times things classed as toys (which is what RTR falls into fortunately) attract no customs duty under EU, UK or WTO rules.

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21 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Nope!

 

As has been explained many times things classed as toys (which is what RTR falls into fortunately) attract no customs duty under EU, UK or WTO rules.

Sorry, I’m confused. If the above is true, why are eBay sellers quoting import duty costs on sales from the U.K. to the EU?

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I think the text usually says "VAT and customs duties", linking the two things together — in fact the sum quoted will be all VAT. If they are a business seller, UK VAT should be added to the price you see. It can be confusing because when you purchase the item, eBay will tell you "20% UK VAT added to price", but the price you pay is the same one originally quoted.

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23 hours ago, Downer said:

Sorry, I’m confused. If the above is true, why are eBay sellers quoting import duty costs on sales from the U.K. to the EU?

If a business seller has a VAT number then the UK VAT will be deducted and the local VAT will be added. There is however a huge amount of sellers that doesn't have a VAT number or if the item is used and then VAT is added on the price you see.

As the treshold is very high in the UK (above £ 85000) before you must have a VAT number, you should focus on the larger sellers or those that have a VAT number.

Ed

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Has anyone had any experience of ordering from Kernow?   Just placed an order and it has deducted the UK VAT,  so would I likely to be charged when my item arrives in Ireland?    Have had a couple of low vale items arrive from Hatton's VAT paid without any issue which was sent via Royal mail and An Post.  Kernow now used DPD, no option for Royal Mail.

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 Not used Kernow but we use dpd a lot for work, be on the look out for emails and/or texts* about fees to pay as they only give you 72hours to pay any fees due, and then send the items back, which can take 2-3 weeks...

 

*we have to enter an email address and mobile number or we cannot book the consignment in...

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I have just (a couple of days ago) ordered some items from a German outlet via ebay. (Roco couplers, approx £41)

 

The item is supplied from Germany ex-vat and e-bay do the VAT collection & invoicing for you, (the price advertised in Sterling and paid is after the UK 20% VAT has been added)

Supposedly it should pass straight through HMRC without delay.

Delivery is claimed to be about 5 -10 days from order

Lets see how it goes, if all OK I wont worry about getting other stuff that way

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