Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Vinedusk]

As an aside, there are people elsewhere in the world that had their homes blown up this week.

Another man was forced off a plane he was traveling in by a fighter jet.

 

Democracy and freedom of speech don't always work out how we expect them to.

 

So if the import duty and VAT are too hard to fathom, then just stop buying until the dust settles and the crap gets sorted out.

 

They're just pieces of plastic, Ripley.

[Kylestrome]

1 hour ago, Vinedusk said:

They're just pieces of plastic

 

While I quite agree with your sentiment, I don't understand why the Rant? 

 

David

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just pieces of plastic that we may have to give up on, if the green agenda is taken far enough to reduce or curtail the amount of ultimately useless, frivolous, consumer goods we send around the globe.

Model trains are a classic example of that.

 

That's before you consider the main raw component, .....a byproduct of oil.

Something there could be less availability of, if it's production and consumption is significantly reduced over the next couple of decades.

 

These changes may have introduced quite a bit of confusion and most definitely increased the hassle factor, for both buyers and sellers, but I take a couple of positives from it.

Firstly, that as a purchaser, one's own government get the "sales" tax on our purchases (VAT). That's also the reason the internal market changes are taking place within the EU,.

I'm happy with that.

Secondly, it highlights to many more "mere mortals" like me, that barriers to free trade are at best a cumbersome nuisance and at worst, a real drag on commerce. That's not an argument for retrospectively saying we should have remained part of the "single market', because it also shows up the EU for having an embedded, regressive approach to "protecting closed markets" with barriers against free trade.

 

 

.

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Just pieces of plastic that we may have to give up on, if the green agenda is taken far enough to reduce or curtail the amount of ultimately useless, frivolous, consumer goods we send around the globe.

Model trains are a classic example of that.

 

That's before you consider the main raw component, .....a byproduct of oil.

Something there could be less availability of, if it's production and consumption is significantly reduced over the next couple of decades.

 

Goody. Mass produced diecast locos and brass coaches

[Robert_N-Nm]

Hi all, sorry for the late reply.

 

I have had a look. There is a disbursement-fee and a VAT charge on the UPS invoice. So two components and the math behind it makes sense as well (I can work out how they came to the figures of the VAT charged give or take a couple of pounds, which is probably shipping costs). 

 

I think the problem is my German invoice didn't show any VAT and the confusion it caused was complete (It spend 2 weeks going between the UPS warehouse and HMRC before delivery). And of course the retailer said all was right and shows no interest....why should they, they don't have to pay the bill.

 

Kind Regards

Robert

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Robert_N-Nm
Confused reply - makes more sense

[Vinedusk]

On 25/05/2021 at 23:33, Kylestrome said:

 

While I quite agree with your sentiment, I don't understand why the Rant? 

 

David

I don't know that it was a rant.

It was pointed out to me earlier in this discussion, that a lot of this forum's users will be affected by this. Having worked in a federal government for 30 years, I can say that it really will take time to re-assess legislation and put new policies and procedures into place.  The friendly advice from me is to put off buying anything until that happens.  If you can't wait, then expect problems and deal with them as they arise.  The main function of Public (civil) Servants is to ensure that legislation is enacted correctly.  Taxation, by definition is extremely complex.

 

But as far as world events go, this really is in the bottom 10%.  Down there with "Newt's disembodied plastic dolls-head".

 

Enjoy.

 

 

 

[SamThomas]

5 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

 The friendly advice from me is to put off buying anything until that happens.  If you can't wait, then expect problems and deal with them as they arise.

Of course with run of the mill stuff like Flesichmann/Roco/Piko/Lenz & so on people can always buy from the few models shops left - that way you won't get caught out by unforseen charges because someone else has sorted out all the paperwork.

You may pay a little more but it all helps the smaller business' to survive.

 

Personally, I am a great believer in using local (or at least close) business & avoid dealing with greedy, unethical multinationals like the plague.

[melmerby]

11 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Of course with run of the mill stuff like Flesichmann/Roco/Piko/Lenz & so on people can always buy from the few models shops left - that way you won't get caught out by unforseen charges because someone else has sorted out all the paperwork.

You may pay a little more but it all helps the smaller business' to survive.

 

Personally, I am a great believer in using local (or at least close) business & avoid dealing with greedy, unethical multinationals like the plague.

If they actually have it.

In my case no one seemed to have stock at the time so I used a "greedy, unethical multinational" called ebay to buy from a smallish model shop in Germany and the paperwork was sorted by that same "greedy, unethical multinational".

Suits me just fine.

[SamThomas]

On 30/05/2021 at 09:40, melmerby said:

Suits me just fine.

 Until they cut out the smaller shops, buy direct from the manufactures, dictate what they will pay & when it's just them left the prices will increase.

 

Your choice of course but as a matter of interest did you look into getting your purchase "locally" ?

[Bernard Lamb]

22 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

 Until they cut out the smaller shops, buy direct from the manufactures, dictate what they will pay & when it's just them left the prices will increase.

 

Your choice of course but as a matter of interest did you look into getting your purchase "locally" ?

That depends to some extent on what you mean by "locally".

Where you are currently resident or where your family originates from can be two very different places.

My local UK shop for German models is about 45 miles away and they have a very limited range. They do from time to time have some very good prices and I bought a DMU a short time ago. They were advertising a soon to be released locomotive that I would have bought, but that is no longer available.  That also means using £ s rather than Euros which is a very different topic. 

My other local shop is a short walk from the German family home and they carry an excellent range of stock. getting there at the moment is just about impossible. Well. getting back to be pedantic.

I find it not quite as easy as you are suggesting.

Bernard 

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

.....as a matter of interest did you look into getting your purchase "locally" ?

 

I remember the days when the local model shop would promise to include the items I was looking for "in the next order".  Week after week would pass waiting them to actually place the order, then more weeks waiting for it to arrive.

 

Even back then in pre internet days I could order by mail and get things within a week. And usually at a better price too.

 

Prompt supply by the local model shop is even more important now with the on line ordering alternative.

 

 

[Kylestrome]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

 Until they cut out the smaller shops, buy direct from the manufactures, dictate what they will pay & when it's just them left the prices will increase.

 

As far as Amazon is concerned I would entirely agree with you, but eBay does have a somewhat different business model and it is very often the best way for a small shop, local or otherwise, to reach more customers.

 

David

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

 Until they cut out the smaller shops, buy direct from the manufactures, dictate what they will pay & when it's just them left the prices will increase.

 

Your choice of course but as a matter of interest did you look into getting your purchase "locally" ?

Not going to happen, they don't have any logistics capability.

You have to remember Amazon operated for years before it made a profit due to their start-up costs.

 

There are no local model shops*, so I looked at those with internet presence and they were OOS.

 

*The nearest is probably DCC supplies but they don't stock what I wanted.

Gaugemaster are the normal UK stockist but were OOS and had been for a few weeks with no suggested re-stocking date.

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

That depends to some extent on what you mean by "locally".

 

By "locally" I mean customers residing in the UK & buying in the UK either by personal visit, webstore, phone enquiry or from a trader at a show/exhibition.

[SamThomas]

56 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Prompt supply by the local model shop is even more important now with the on line ordering alternative.

 

 

Agreed, but there are quite a number of UK traders that dispatch goods promptly if ordered by phone or webstore.

[SamThomas]

39 minutes ago, Kylestrome said:

 

As far as Amazon is concerned I would entirely agree with you, but eBay does have a somewhat different business model and it is very often the best way for a small shop, local or otherwise, to reach more customers.

 

David

Indeed, however, eBay are now losing some traders with their "managed payments" scheme which is not as easy as PayPal - yet another example of greed.

[SamThomas]

33 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Not going to happen, they don't have any logistics capability.

You have to remember Amazon operated for years before it made a profit due to their start-up costs.

 

There are no local model shops*, so I looked at those with internet presence and they were OOS.

 

*The nearest is probably DCC supplies but they don't stock what I wanted.

Gaugemaster are the normal UK stockist but were OOS and had been for a few weeks with no suggested re-stocking date.

Amazon have huge logistics capacity which is increasing.

Many business' don't make a profit for years.

As a matter of interest what were you looking for ?

Much as I think that GM are starting to get a bit too big they are in the hands of the manufactures regarding re-stock dates - the days of Mar/Trix/Roco/Flm/Piko having warehouses full of stocks for the orders to come in are over - when a new model is announced the numbers inicially produced are based on the pre-orders + a percentage. Often, if the manufacture does not order enough the German outlets get priority.

Recently, a friend of mine pre-ordered a locomotive only to find that the initial stock was used to fullfill the German outlets & had to wait for the 2nd run. The locomotive was actually around a tenner cheaper when taking into account the price & shipping.

[melmerby]

42 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

As a matter of interest what were you looking for ?

 

It was Roco couplers, pack of 50.

Gaugemaster did get them back in stock after I had received mine from the German model shop.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

By "locally" I mean customers residing in the UK & buying in the UK either by personal visit, webstore, phone enquiry or from a trader at a show/exhibition.

Point 1.  This thread is about buying and selling models in Europe rather than using your local UK shop.

Point 2. For most of what I require there is no UK source let alone a local one.

Bernard

[etendam]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:07, Neils WRX said:

Finally had the letter from Parcel Force, they say I owe them £47 which £35 VAT and £12 handling charge.

 

I contacted the shop I purchased the coaches from (by Ebay) and they say Ebay should have collected the UK VAT, so no idea why I've been stung. Guess I take the matter up with them ?

 

What I thought was a good price for 3 coaches is now a bit of rip off.

 

Stay safe everyone,

 

Neil

 

This would NOT have happened if the seller had stated the EBAY VAT number that is on the PayPal payment is mentioned on one of the address lines! A lot of EU sellers are not aware that this number must be stated on the package to avoid double VAT.

 

So always clearly communicate with the seller that the number must be mentioned on the package.

 

Ed

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, etendam said:

 

This would NOT have happened if the seller had stated the EBAY VAT number that is on the PayPal payment is mentioned on one of the address lines! A lot of EU sellers are not aware that this number must be stated on the package to avoid double VAT.

 

So always clearly communicate with the seller that the number must be mentioned on the package.

 

Ed

Sorry but that's not correct.

The order was over the ebay limit of £135 (pre VAT), so you have to pay UK VAT on receipt, there is no option for the seller to do anything different.

Under £135 ebay will collect the VAT for you and the price shown should be with UK VAT added.

 

 

 

[Jim Easterbrook]

Has anyone else done the arithmetic on a recent eBay purchase from EU to UK? My last one, a 2nd hand loco from a German seller (with over 2000 current listings, so I assume a business) had this breakdown:

Price €67.22

Postage €11.00

VAT €12.77

Total charged to PayPal €90.99

 

The label was marked VAT paid, so I didn't pay any further VAT or handling fees. (And delivery by DHL/RM was nice and quick.) A bit later I noticed that €12.77 is 19% of €67.22, which looks like German VAT. I thought eBay were supposed to charge 20% on price and postage.

[SamThomas]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

It was Roco couplers, pack of 50.

Gaugemaster did get them back in stock after I had received mine from the German model shop.

AFAIK they are a stock item at GM - maybe someone like me recently bought 100 of them !

[SamThomas]

7 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Point 1.  This thread is about buying and selling models in Europe rather than using your local UK shop.

Point 2. For most of what I require there is no UK source let alone a local one.

Bernard

P1 - As much of the thread content was people in the UK commenting on diffeculties with buying from the EU I was simply trying to be helful in suggesting supporting your UK traders - please feel free to ignore my suggestions. "Thread drift" elsewhere on MRW does not appear to be a problem.

P2 - see P1.

[SGP]

Since January, buying from a country other than the EU has changed as well. Previously I could buy from USA (for example) up to the value of £15 and incur no extra charge. That has now changed to zero. 

So, why should ROW have to suffer a tax hike?