Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[phil-b259]

16 hours ago, Jim Easterbrook said:

Has anyone else done the arithmetic on a recent eBay purchase from EU to UK? My last one, a 2nd hand loco from a German seller (with over 2000 current listings, so I assume a business) had this breakdown:

Price €67.22

Postage €11.00

VAT €12.77

Total charged to PayPal €90.99

 

The label was marked VAT paid, so I didn't pay any further VAT or handling fees. (And delivery by DHL/RM was nice and quick.) A bit later I noticed that €12.77 is 19% of €67.22, which looks like German VAT. I thought eBay were supposed to charge 20% on price and postage.

 

They should - but I don't know how the e-bay site works for business sellers. Its entirely possible that the German seller didn't fill it out correctly thus meaning the rate of VAT used ended up being the German one (as is presumably the case for the majority of purchases).

 

 

[etendam]

17 hours ago, melmerby said:

The order was over the ebay limit of £135 (pre VAT), so you have to pay UK VAT on receipt, there is no option for the seller to do anything different.

Under £135 ebay will collect the VAT for you and the price shown should be with UK VAT added.

Sorry, Above £ 135 / € 150 it is indeed totally different. Then you will always have the added VAT and a fee for the carrier.

Ed

[etendam]

37 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They should - but I don't know how the e-bay site works for business sellers. Its entirely possible that the German seller didn't fill it out correctly thus meaning the rate of VAT used ended up being the German one (as is presumably the case for the majority of purchases).

 

As my wife is a business seller on Ebay she has to list an item for the selling price and in another field you should fill in the VAT %.

From July 1st it is mandatory on Ebay to fill in the % of VAT. Even for very small businesses that don't have VAT registration, they are simply banned on Ebay by this.

Ed

[etendam]

On 18/05/2021 at 09:49, Ron Ron Ron said:

Many of you will be getting similar emails, to the one I received from UPS yesterday.

Registering for the IOSS platform is not obligatory and you can continue to declare and pay VAT on EU imports as you do today.
 

If you register for IOSS, appoint an intermediary to handle tax compliance on your behalf in the EU in case you don’t have an EU-based establishment.

Please be aware of the following:

 

Registering for the IOSS platform is not obligatory BUT if you list items on an EU Ebay site that isn't in your country (Like Ebay.de) you MUST have EU VAT number. (Or have a fiscal Representative is several countries which is much more expensive) Without it all the listings are removed for business sellers by Ebay on July 1st. Some might consider now to swap to a private account but the fees are higher and in case of an issue you are responsible for the returning cost of shipping .

 

There are several people offering this service (registering a business and address) on social media for low prices a month. Please be aware that they can raise the monthly service fee at any moment..... (This is how they earn a lot of money! - so you should be VERY careful where to register)

Normally the prices for these services vary between € 400 - € 1200 a month in the Netherlands on a fixed contract. 

 

Ed

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by etendam

[Nick C]

On 22/05/2021 at 11:38, SamThomas said:

I have a couple of items coming from China (under a fiver each) & if anyone tries to charge any form of VAT with a handling fee then they can simply send it back & then I will re-order the same product from someone in the UK & pay more that way. I'd rather a small company make some money than the likes of DHL/RM.

 

On 22/05/2021 at 11:46, melmerby said:

Up until the start of the year I had been regularly purchasing items on Aliexpress, mostly low cost items (under a tenner).

It will be interesting to see what they do with low cost items as surely they will clog up the system if every single one has to have a VAT invoice and handling charge added.

 

On 01/06/2021 at 09:30, SGP said:

Since January, buying from a country other than the EU has changed as well. Previously I could buy from USA (for example) up to the value of £15 and incur no extra charge. That has now changed to zero. 

So, why should ROW have to suffer a tax hike?

 

Remember there are actually two changes that happened at the same time - the addition of charges for stuff coming from the EU was caused directly by Brexit, but there was also the removal of the £15 threshold - that's a separate thing that just happened to be lumped in with the Brexit changes, and is designed to stop the cheap stuff (usually from China) being sent in under the VAT threshold and so undercutting local suppliers - I believe the same is happening in the EU with the 1st July changes there.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

 

 

Remember there are actually two changes that happened at the same time - the addition of charges for stuff coming from the EU was caused directly by Brexit, but there was also the removal of the £15 threshold - that's a separate thing that just happened to be lumped in with the Brexit changes, and is designed to stop the cheap stuff (usually from China) being sent in under the VAT threshold and so undercutting local suppliers - I believe the same is happening in the EU with the 1st July changes there.

If I buy from a Chinese supplier's shopfront on ebay, will ebay still do the VAT for me?

The reason is I found a small (pricewise) item I wanted on ebay but it is stocked in the far east and sent China post.

The price quoted is little different to that on AliExpress which I assume do not do UK VAT collection.

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

If I buy from a Chinese supplier's shopfront on ebay, will ebay still do the VAT for me?

Ooh! That prospect has frightened me. There's an item - not modelling related - where the ebay seller is in Switzerland, but his address is Hong Kong. This might be the moment to buy, as it will take two weeks to get here, i.e. before July. Worth going without food to save 20% of a large sum! 

[Royal42]

Can someone please help me with a query on this subject?  I have tried to find an answer in the responses in this thread but they seem to be mostly eBay orientated.   A friend has contacted me from Hungary and asked if I would sell a kit from my stash to him;   he knows I have it in my collection.  I am not a trader in any way so, if I decide to sell the kit for, hypothetically £60,  how is that covered by any of these new rules?

 

Previously, I would just fill in a customs form, stating a second-hand plastic kit value £xxxx and that would be it.

 

cheers,
Mike the unknowing.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Royal42

[etendam]

1 hour ago, Royal42 said:

Can someone please help me with a query on this subject?  I have tried to find an answer in the responses in this thread but they seem to be mostly eBay orientated.   A friend has contacted me from Hungary and asked if I would sell a kit from my stash to him;   he knows I have it in my collection.  I am not a trader in any way so, if I decide to sell the kit for, hypothetically £60,  how is that covered by any of these new rules?

 

Previously, I would just fill in a customs form, stating a second-hand plastic kit value £xxxx and that would be it.

 

cheers,
Mike the unknowing.

That is correct, just fill in the customs forms and enter a HS code (9503003000 Modeltrain) . On arrival your friend will pay for the VAT and a courier fee. That is it.

 

Ed

 

[Kylestrome]

On 02/06/2021 at 23:23, etendam said:

On arrival your friend will pay for the VAT and a courier fee. That is it.

 

If you state on the customs declaration that the item is a gift, I can't see how any customs official is going to know that you have received payment for a private sale. You just need to state what is in the package and a value, which should not be too high.

 

David

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Kylestrome

[melmerby]

41 minutes ago, Kylestrome said:

 

If you state on the customs declaration that the item is a gift. I can't see how any customs official is going to know that you have received payment for a private sale. You just need to state what is in the package and a value, which presumably will not be very high (hint).

 

David

 

 

Into the UK the value limit is £39, It might be useful to find out what Hungary's import limit is for gifts ( and make sure the item's declared value is less!)

[railroadbill]

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

If I buy from a Chinese supplier's shopfront on ebay, will ebay still do the VAT for me?

The reason is I found a small (pricewise) item I wanted on ebay but it is stocked in the far east and sent China post.

The price quoted is little different to that on AliExpress which I assume do not do UK VAT collection.

I've recently done just that, bought  low priced item from Chinese supplier via eBay, and eBay collected 20% UK vat on the price (item was around £5). Jiffy bag with product arrived quite quickly.  So £15 limit gone.

Edited June 2, 2021 by railroadbill

[rekoboy]

I ordered spares from Kuehn-Modell in Rheinbreitbach in the middle of last week, and they were here on Tuesday. No problems, no charges. So far so good. There is a large-ish parcel of secondhand scrap locos and parts on its way from my friend Matthias in Meck-Pomm - let's see if that gets through without any problems. I have two locos - another Kuehn BR 94 and the Piko BR 83 - on order from my favourite model shop in Ziesar, but I think I shall endeavour to collect them in person whenever travel is permitted again!

[Ron Ron Ron]

I’m aware of the UK import exemption for gifts with a value under £39, but what happens in the case of sending personal possessions (i.e. items already owned by the recipient or an item posted from one family member to another) ?

 

An example.
No1 son is living in the south of France.

If he wishes to send some of his possessions home to the UK, how will that be treated?

 

 

,

[Bernard Lamb]

11 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I’m aware of the UK import exemption for gifts with a value under £39, but what happens in the case of sending personal possessions (i.e. items already owned by the recipient or an item posted from one family member to another) ?

 

An example.
No1 son is living in the south of France.

If he wishes to send some of his possessions home to the UK, how will that be treated?

 

 

,

In the past a large quantity of household items would have been dealt with by a freight forwarding agency. They would have tied up with the home office the status of the person involved and it would have been waved through with just the agency fee to pay. Small parcels so far this year seem to have attracted no attention, as had been the case for many years. After July it seems to be in the lap of the gods.

Bernard

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Scenario 1.

I have purchased a piece of rolling stock from Hattons, delivered to me in Spain all taxes/duties paid correctly.

I now wish to have it weathered by a UK based business.

How does the taxation work out in this situation?

I would sincerely hope that I don't have to pay additional taxes/fees/tariffs to send it back, and similarly not when it returned.

Is there a way doing this sort of transaction legally exempt of charges, or has Brexit forked this up as well?

 

Mike.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Mike

I'm afraid that you would have to pay again as tbe goods are being altered.

 

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/temporary-admission/temporary-admission-rules-and-procedures/general-rules-for-getting-temporary-admission-relief.aspx

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Thanks for that.

I won't be going through all that rigmarole.

More business lost to the UK, exactly how Boris planned it presumably?

 

Mike.

[SGP]

Quote

Into the UK the value limit is £39

I thought that went down to £30 a few years back. 

It used to be £18 merchandise and £36 gift but these were reduced to £15 and £30 respectively. 

However, I tried to buy an item from USA recently under £15 and the import was to be applied from £zero. 

So that has all gone out of the window.

Worth noting that those previous figures didn't apply if you went over or if the exchange rate changed en-route.

An item worth £14.50p when bought could be £15.50p on receipt. If an item (say £20) arrived here, you would pay the levy on the whole £20 (not the £5 it went over) PLUS the postage and any insurance. Postage was ignored if under the threshold but added if over. Also there would be the £8 Royal Mail handling fee added on top (more with couriers). Not worth the hassle unless a real must have. 

Books however are exempt from all charges.

[Allegheny1600]

47 minutes ago, SGP said:

 

Books however are exempt from all charges.

Books may be exempt BUT I have been charged import duty, taxes + £8 handling fee on items clearly marked “books” so beware!

It may be that I was incorrectly charged but until you receive the item, you may not know what it is (if you’ve ordered more than one item, for example) and trying to recover the fees is made (deliberately?) difficult.

Just an added risk when importing items you want.

[Andy Hayter]

5 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Books may be exempt BUT I have been charged import duty, taxes + £8 handling fee on items clearly marked “books” so beware!

It may be that I was incorrectly charged but until you receive the item, you may not know what it is (if you’ve ordered more than one item, for example) and trying to recover the fees is made (deliberately?) difficult.

Just an added risk when importing items you want.

That might depend on where you are when you receive the parcel.  Books are indeed zero VAT rated in the UK, but in much of Europe (I don't know about Greece) VAT is applied.  One reason why books are so expensive here in France.

[SGP]

I once bought an item from USA for just under £15 but the postage was £20. En-route the exchange rate changed out of my favour. Upon delivery I was charged on the £15 AND the £20 postage AND the Royal Mail handling fee. 

I refused the parcel and it was sent back to seller (although he claims he never got it back). 

So, I lost about £35 and customs / Royal Mail were a bit out of pocket as well. 

I bought the item in UK eventually for £25, only a bit more than what customs and RM were going to add on. 

Everything comes to he who waits. I bought a Toys R Us model exlusive to USA but with postage and added costs, it cost me £95 to get it into my hands.

Six months later, surplus stock was being sold in Forbidden Planet for £40 and Toys R Us in UK for £30.

[Cor-onGRT4]

About two weeks ago, I ordered from Kernow 4 SR Maunsell crimson and cream coaches, a real bargain 24,49 pound each with an extra discount of 1 pound each at the payment and UK VAT reduced 19,58 net , with shipping 15,83 a total of 94,12 pound.

Last week I found a notification in my letterbox , I could collect my package on the post agency, because I had to do a payment, and only at the agency possible.

No problem 5 minute walk, so I collect it and only had to pay 32,06 euro, net 19,06 euro dutch VAT and 13,00 euro handling fee.

First they did'nt charge VAT on the shipping cost and they used a cheaper exchange raid for the pound than charged on my creditcard.

So eventually about 6 euro cheaper than expected.

Over all this was a bargain but went out in a greater bargain then expected, so sometimes there are benefits.

This was my first order from the UK after brexit, else than several Hattons DDP shipping with no extra charges.

It looks like not the extra 1% Dutch VAT  is making it costlier, it's are the handling fee nearly 2/3 of the tax that does it.

So have no sence to buy a small item of 30 pounds, because the handling fee is the extra amount that makes it costlier, not the VAT

Edited June 7, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[etendam]

The Dutch post (PostNL) just released the new rules for purchases from non-EU countries after July 1st.

 

Shipments up to € 150 will have VAT added + Handling fee per shipment (€4.00 when paid online or €7.00 at a pickup point)

Shipments from € 150 will have VAT added + Handling fee per shipment (€10.00 when paid online or €13.00 at a pickup point) + Duties (Modeltrains = € 0)

 

You will need to pay VAT for any products that arrive in the Netherlands from 1 July on wards. The purchase date is IRRELEVANT! It is possible that you already paid the VAT but the handling fee will always be charged. If you choose not to pay online the parcel is send to a pickup point and you have 7 days to collect the parcel and pay the fee. After 7 days it will be shipped back!

 

After July 16th the NEW CE marking rules for modeltrains also apply. CE Mark products (Modeltrains, Toys & Electrical equipment) cannot be sold online in Europe without an Authorized Representative based in Europe. Make sure that the items you buy f.i. from the UK, US or Far East have a CE mark and the details of the Authorized Representative in the EU on EVERY product. 

 

The Authorized Representative however will demand from manufacturers / suppliers that his name will ONLY on the items that are imported by him to avoid self import and make him responsible for the CE responsibility. So we will soon get back to EU importers.

 

Ebay will block Ads from business sellers on EU Ebay sites that don't have a VAT number. How they tackle the CE Marking is not clear to me yet but in their policy is stated that listed items that needs CE marking from outside the EU must have it. So items that are offered after July 16th must meet the new rules to prevent suspending of an account. 

 

So it will not be so easy to get items that are not available from EU sellers. 

 

Ed

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Those charges are interesting.

Here in Spain I've just been charged 20 Euros "despacho" to collect 6 Euros worth of IVA (VAT equivalent).

I await with bated breath.

 

Mike.