Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Cor-onGRT4]

Last Tuesday,I ordered an Hornby N15 class [an bargain] and the new SR roadvan from Kernow,

They have now a new shipping rate, before it was an flat rate of 19,- pounds to the Netherlands and most EU countries, but now

they deducted the shipping cost and offer an choose, I could choose between DPD 15,- pound tracked or 8,- pound by RoyalMail [airmail]

So choose Royal Mail, because the amount of purchase was only 120,- pound.

This is an very nice option they offer since short, a two months ago this option was not yet there.

Very good Kernow  

Edited July 22, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[LimboBrit]

4 hours ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

Last Tuesday,I ordered an Hornby N15 class [an bargain] and the new SR roadvan from Kernow,

They have now a new shipping rate, before it was an flat rate of 19,- pounds to the Netherlands and most EU countries, but now

they deducted the shipping cost and offer an choose, I could choose between DPD 15,- pound tracked or 8,- pound by RoyalMail [airmail]

So choose Royal Mail, because the amount of purchase was only 120,- pound.

This is an very nice option they offer since short, a two months ago this option was not yet there.

Very good Kernow  

If its not already too late check with them that they use the correct import code when shipping. I ended up paying import duty because they used the wrong code.

[Cor-onGRT4]

3 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

If its not already too late check with them that they use the correct import code when shipping. I ended up paying import duty because they used the wrong code.

Well it was shipped the same day, last Tuesday, so nothing to do about that.

But I'm not worried , because the total amount was about  € 145,- in euro, if I think you talking about the 4,7% 

import duties, it is only above the  €150,-, when this fees are  charged.

So will wait and see.

Even then it was an bargain this wartime black SR N15 class loco, about 60,- pound cheaper than else.

BTW, that wrong code was your Class 31 order from Rails, this is from Kernow, order before and all went well.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[LimboBrit]

12 hours ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

Well it was shipped the same day, last Tuesday, so nothing to do about that.

But I'm not worried , because the total amount was about  € 145,- in euro, if I think you talking about the 4,7% 

import duties, it is only above the  €150,-, when this fees are  charged.

So will wait and see.

Even then it was an bargain this wartime black SR N15 class loco, about 60,- pound cheaper than else.

BTW, that wrong code was your Class 31 order from Rails, this is from Kernow, order before and all went well.

No. My class 31 came from Kernow.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I've just made my first eBay purchase from Germany (to the UK) since "B*****" and the importation changes taking place.

 

It's a DCC accessory module.

The purchase price + P&P = €27.12

 

The email confirmation has the following code...

Tax Details: VAT Paid: IOSS ID:

GB 365 6085 76

 

Does that GB coding indicate that UK VAT has been paid?

 

Delivery info: Delivery service

Deutsche Post Brief International

 

What should I expect to happen?

 

 

.

[LimboBrit]

11 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Does that GB coding indicate that UK VAT has been paid?

Looks like it. IOSS = Import One Stop Shop

[Talltim]

On 12/07/2021 at 20:01, rekoboy said:

Very occasionally I buy the 'Model Railroader' from our local model shop - I have just discovered from this month's edition that our friends at Hattons have moved into the North American market - or is this old news that has passed me by?

Rails also seems to doing the same. Obviously they have been Rapido agents for a while.

[5944]

Another day, another delivery from Germany... Order placed last week with Modellbahn-Center am Markt Hünerbein for a couple of wagons. Paid Thursday evening, refund of German VAT issued Friday morning, dispatched by DHL Friday afternoon, arrived Tuesday afternoon. No extra charges or VAT added on either. 

[Cor-onGRT4]

On 22/07/2021 at 12:58, Cor-onGRT4 said:

Last Tuesday,I ordered an Hornby N15 class [an bargain] and the new SR roadvan from Kernow,

They have now a new shipping rate, before it was an flat rate of 19,- pounds to the Netherlands and most EU countries, but now

they deducted the shipping cost and offer an choose, I could choose between DPD 15,- pound tracked or 8,- pound by RoyalMail [airmail]

So choose Royal Mail, because the amount of purchase was only 120,- pound.

This is an very nice option they offer since short, a two months ago this option was not yet there.

Very good Kernow  

Today I received an request from dutch post by email , for this shipment an total amount for € 31,39 euro, for VAT and handling fee,

over the amount of 120,- pound, this is € 8,- euro fee and € 23,39 dutch VAT 21%, well the second time they calcullated the VAT over 113,- pound,

[only the goods] and not first the exchange rate from pound to euro's, so second time again an cheap VAT on an already bargain.

 

And today placed my first direct order from Hornby for the Merchant Navy war black, it give the price in euro's directly as soon you entered your counrtry, it was Hornby full RRP € 208,67 today exchange price, and free shipping with DPD.

If ordering from an average shop with discount of 20% UK VAT free and shipping with courier, with dutch VAT added and handling fee and higher exchange rate at mastercard, I would pay about € 222,- euro, so direct ordering is cheaper from Hornby , but only if you amount is high enough for free shipping.

So you have to be very carefully when to order direct from Hornby. 

 

BTW, this is shipped now by Hornby the new way, without any further cost by the receiver.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[Vinedusk]

Good grief.

 

Virtually every European retailer (Germany, Austria, Netherlands, France) that I have dealt with over the past 12 years has been able to automatically deduct the Mkwst from the published price, based on the delivery address. They tie this in with the freight charge.  They are all very good at it; they want your business.

 

I have not encountered a retailer that didn't want to help, so if you are having problems, I suggest that you contact them again.   One strategy I used was to post every paragraph in both English and German.  This sometimes helps the reader to discern any nuances in what you may have asked them.

 

They all have contact phone numbers as a last resort and most have English speaking staff.

 

Menzels are a bricks and mortar retailer; it could be that they have been closed or short staffed due to lockdowns.  I have dealt with them before and had no problems myself.

 

EBAY is the only place that has ever caused me a problem with buying German made and/or sold MRR products.

[rekoboy]

At last I can report - hopefully - success with my endeavours in 'uncancelling' my subscription to the Modelleisenbahner. I had continued to receive the same negative responses (Brexit, no longer allowed, customs problems, postal problems....) to my mails, until one of the staff at the MEB office asked me out of the blue if I had a German e-mail address or could use a German postal address. Yes, yes - progress at last!  I have always had a German e-mail address and my good friends in Brandenburg are always willing to take in post for me so I conveyed those facts to the lady at the publishers who within 5 minutes agreed to send the bill to my web.de address as long as I am happy to swap to an electronic subscription. No problem!

[Bernard Lamb]

On 30/07/2021 at 14:54, rekoboy said:

At last I can report - hopefully - success with my endeavours in 'uncancelling' my subscription to the Modelleisenbahner. I had continued to receive the same negative responses (Brexit, no longer allowed, customs problems, postal problems....) to my mails, until one of the staff at the MEB office asked me out of the blue if I had a German e-mail address or could use a German postal address. Yes, yes - progress at last!  I have always had a German e-mail address and my good friends in Brandenburg are always willing to take in post for me so I conveyed those facts to the lady at the publishers who within 5 minutes agreed to send the bill to my web.de address as long as I am happy to swap to an electronic subscription. No problem!

Thanks for that.

Very helpful.

While SWMBO has a German pension which we keep in Germany in euros and we have debit cards to use within the EU we do not have a German email address. We use the phone to buy things to be delivered within Germany. I looked at Yahoo and as I have a UK email address it defaults to that when i look at Yahoo de. I will try to arrange to set up an account from a German address.

Bernard

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 26/07/2021 at 23:01, Ron Ron Ron said:

I've just made my first eBay purchase from Germany (to the UK) since "B*****" and the importation changes taking place.

 

It's a DCC accessory module.

The purchase price + P&P = €27.12

 

The email confirmation has the following code...

Tax Details: VAT Paid: IOSS ID:

GB 365 6085 76

 

Does that GB coding indicate that UK VAT has been paid?

 

Delivery info: Delivery service

Deutsche Post Brief International

 

What should I expect to happen?

 

 

.

To follow up my previous post (above).

The parcel arrived from Germany on Friday, delivered by the postman ( Royal Mail).

No additional charges levied.

There was a little green coloured customs declaration label stuck on next to the address label.

The hand written contents said “adapter” and gave the value declared.

From my perspective on this particular occasion, there was no hassle or practical difference to this buying process, than there was two or three years ago.

 

 

.

[Nick C]

13 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Thanks for that.

Very helpful.

While SWMBO has a German pension which we keep in Germany in euros and we have debit cards to use within the EU we do not have a German email address. We use the phone to buy things to be delivered within Germany. I looked at Yahoo and as I have a UK email address it defaults to that when i look at Yahoo de. I will try to arrange to set up an account from a German address.

Bernard

I don't know about the German rules, but I set up a Polish .pl web domain (and therefore email addresses) a couple of years ago, and they had no problems with me using a UK address and credit card for it.

[SimonBoulton]

I believe the IOSS ID is the one used so the seller can charge the UK VAT. I saw something recently about a UK seller who had to obtain one so that they could send goods to Europe with the local sales tax charged so  people wouldn't getting charged a handling fee etc when the parcels arrived, so the system must work both ways 

[irishmail]

I have just had an email and text message from An post (Irish post office) to say that I have to pay VAT + handling charges on two parcels from Hatton's!!!  They are both well below the £135/€150 limit.  

Email sent to An post explaining that Hatton's are registered for Irish VAT, now awaiting their response.   

[Cor-onGRT4]

2 hours ago, irishmail said:

I have just had an email and text message from An post (Irish post office) to say that I have to pay VAT + handling charges on two parcels from Hatton's!!!  They are both well below the £135/€150 limit.  

Email sent to An post explaining that Hatton's are registered for Irish VAT, now awaiting their response.   

Yes, I had the same problem this week with an shippment by Royal Mail from Hattons, I also had to pay dutch VAT and handling fee, contacted Hattons and they explaind they have issues with Royal Mail shipping, I normaly use DPD by road from them , all 8 shipments last half year all went very well, but now I shipped my trunk [ only small items] with RM and this time it did went  wrong.

No problem, you contact them about this, give your order number and invoice you did got from the post, and they solve it.

I payed the invoice from dutch post yesterday,  Hattons asked to send them the payment and they refund it to me.

And all is solved easily.

Yesterday I've got an reply to send them the payment invoice I've done to the post and they refund me the money.

I am just going to do this, but want you to let know it will be handeld well by Hattons.

Hope this helps you.

[Oldddudders]

At the other end of the telescope, a fairly expensive item from Amazon UK a few months back included £195 provision for import tax to France, in lieu of UK VAT which had been deducted. To my surprise, the £195 has now been refunded, meaning my lens bore neither VAT nor TVA. Deal! 

[irishmail]

4 hours ago, irishmail said:

I have just had an email and text message from An post (Irish post office) to say that I have to pay VAT + handling charges on two parcels from Hatton's!!!  They are both well below the £135/€150 limit.  

Email sent to An post explaining that Hatton's are registered for Irish VAT, now awaiting their response.   

 

 Spoke to An post customer service, waste of time, phoned customs only to get recoded message to email them!  Phone call to Hatton's and hopefully they are going to sort it.  (Thanks @Cor-onGRT4)

 

Had reply from  customs,  they say its An post applying the charges!!

"Good morning John

I have forwarded your query to ecommchargequery@anpost.ie as an Post are now putting charges on the packets.

 Regards

M Burke

Customs Officer, Dublin Mail Centre, Oak Road, Knockmitten, Dublin 22"

[Derek Russan]

European VAT is a big cause of problems, and not easy for small suppliers to resolve.

 

If you trade on a major platfrom such as Amazon or Ebay thay provide mechanisms for dealing with it. If not then it causes issues.

 

Anythig over 150Euro has to go with tax unpaid. Currently all imports to the EU below 150 Euro can either have taken prepaid by the sended (using the IOSS system) or not prepaid where the recieving country usually apply tax and the carrier will charge a service charge. I have seen some cases where they have not bothered. Gone is the old 20Euro no tax threshold.

 

Larger suppliers can register direct for IOSS, but smaller ones are not able to do that. For starters you need to do it within the EU.

 

Small suppliers can use IOSS but usually have to pay a third party for the privilage. I am still exploring oprions as I think it will benefit customers, but most agents want a significany up front/monthly charge plus a more reasonable per shipment charge. This per shipment will usually be passed on to the customer as part of the shipping cost, but hopefully will be less than the Post or Courier charges at the border. The VAT paid will then be at the VAT rate for the destination country. Also this system is for business to customer sales, so if you are VAT registered you cannot reclaim the VAT if IOSS is used.

 

This is all for shipments to EU only.

 

Imports to UK have a very different set of rules.

 

You can see why this is causing suppliers headached.

 

 

[irishmail]

I had a reply from Hatton's earlier, they said that they are having a few problems with shipment caused by Royal mail to the EU, despite Hatton's using all the correct labelling on parcels,  however they said that I should pay the VAT/Customs charge and email the receipts to Hatton's and they will refund me.  

Fair play to Hatton's for sorting it out. 

[Cor-onGRT4]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

I had a reply from Hatton's earlier, they said that they are having a few problems with shipment caused by Royal mail to the EU, despite Hatton's using all the correct labelling on parcels,  however they said that I should pay the VAT/Customs charge and email the receipts to Hatton's and they will refund me.  

Fair play to Hatton's for sorting it out. 

Glad it's been solved, I got the refund this afternoon, they said this issues only appears when shipping with Royal Mail there are no issues with the couriers DHL and DPD.

Normaly I use DPD road service 7,- pound till 3 kg and 9,-  pound till 32 kg.

Only this time I ordered to ship mine trunk items, the items were so small I decided to use RM, but from now on I will only use DPD again, used it for over a year now, and it is cheap and fast , even by road.

Between 3-5 days from shipping to receiving it takes, you get an email what day they deliver and how late, a time block of one hour, and they are always on time in this hour.

So can advise you to use this option.

I put my items in Hattons trunk and if they about on the weight of the maximum I let them ship.

It is a great service from Hattons this trunk.

 

And their customerservice is also great.

Contacting them is faster than find help from the Post 

They are very helpfull at Hattons.

 

 

 

[etendam]

On 05/08/2021 at 14:32, Derek Russan said:

If you trade on a major platfrom such as Amazon or Ebay thay provide mechanisms for dealing with it. If not then it causes issues.

 

Anythig over 150Euro has to go with tax unpaid. Currently all imports to the EU below 150 Euro can either have taken prepaid by the sended (using the IOSS system) or not prepaid where the recieving country usually apply tax and the carrier will charge a service charge. I have seen some cases where they have not bothered. Gone is the old 20Euro no tax threshold.

 

Larger suppliers can register direct for IOSS, but smaller ones are not able to do that. For starters you need to do it within the EU.

 

Selling platforms like Amazon and Ebay don't collect VAT on orders above € 150. If you receive a large order the buyer has to pay the VAT + Post or Courier charges at their door in order to receive the package.

 

On 05/08/2021 at 14:32, Derek Russan said:

Also this system is for business to customer sales, so if you are VAT registered you cannot reclaim the VAT if IOSS is used.

 

The IOSS is only for B2C sales. For B2B sales you always make an invoice without VAT (Export at 0% ) BUT this can only be done if the Business his VAT number is in VIES. If NOT you have to charge the VAT ! All the bookkeeping / invoice programs that are available have automatic options for this. They check the number in VIES automatically and state the correct VAT amount on the invoice. You also need this when using IOSS, otherwise you need to know all VAT percentages for each EU country for every product group.

As the seller is responsible for the correct VAT it is highly recommended that if you want to do business with the EU that you invest in good software.

 

Sellers that don't use IOSS will have less (and sometimes very frustrated!) customers when they have to pay the Post or Courier charges at their door. With IOSS the costs are € 0. So IOSS will boost your sales but it is very hard for starters and small companies to invest a lot upfront even without sales. The days that you start an international business, and trade with the EU, without money are gone but you always have the possibility to work with a EU partner / Agent and he will handle all EU sales. With the new CE regulations you will need this as well.

 

Ed

 

 

[irishmail]

Just had another email for customs duty on another low value item I ordered from Hatton's.  An Post and Irish customs are a right PITA!!!!  When you try to speak to them they just fob you off with feeble excuses.

Sometimes makes me wonder if its worth bothering with railway modelling anymore.

[Cor-onGRT4]

On 10/08/2021 at 19:39, irishmail said:

Just had another email for customs duty on another low value item I ordered from Hatton's.  An Post and Irish customs are a right PITA!!!!  When you try to speak to them they just fob you off with feeble excuses.

Sometimes makes me wonder if its worth bothering with railway modelling anymore.

See my post from August 5 , I mostly use since the option is offered the Hattons trunk,

my last shipment were 2 small pre owned wagons, an Hornby TTS decorder and small platform.

If I had shipped this seperate I had to pay 4 times 4,- pound to the Netherlands, I shipped last time all together from my trunk with RM,

only 5,- pound RM airmail, but trouble like you with duties, never had this with last eight DPD shippings.

Iff I had known this, I would have used DPD for 7,- pound.

But same as you got an invoice to pay customes duty from dutch post, so from now on I only use DPD only.

I can advise you to use their trunk service for small items.

Looks like the shipping with RM is still not solved, so iff I may advise you ,use DPD road shipping

works very good for 7,- pound. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4