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Buying and Selling models to/from Europe


creweboy
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Banking. So far so good (at the moment) as my Lloyds account has remained unaffected. However, I am given to understand that certain Lloyds customers living in the Nederlands have had their UK accounts closed as they are in insufficient numbers to make it worthwhile for Lloyds to register a branch there.

 

I shall be keeping a close eye on the banking scene as I expect the service industry is going to have a hard time negotiating.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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1 hour ago, andania 213 said:

 

Can't be too much fun at the moment, glad I'm long out of it!!

 

I've never known the industry to be in such chaos and everyone you speak to be to so stressed, angry and downright depressed. 

 

Just like being back in 1992 again before the borders came down. Retirement (20ish years to go) or escape from this awful country can't come soon enough.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

I've never known the industry to be in such chaos and everyone you speak to be to so stressed, angry and downright depressed. 

 

Just like being back in 1992 again before the borders came down. Retirement (20ish years to go) or escape from this awful country can't come soon enough.

 

 

I feel for you, mate!

 I don’t know if all EU countries are the same but my wife and I had to leave the UK very quickly last year, in order to secure our residency rights as EU citizens in Greece. We very nearly didn’t make it due to the onset of the second lockdown but we did, stressful as it was. There were no flights available from Manchester direct to Athens so we had to drive a one way hire car to Heathrow, cat in a secure box and with a very recent bill of health.

Our house sale was agreed but we’re still waiting on completion and most of our possessions are in storage.

We are lucky however as being self employed, my business can travel with us.

 I hope that by the time our new house is ready and we can get our business up and running again, these shipping and taxation problems will be dealt with or at least, easier to understand otherwise, I too won’t bother dealing with my customers in the UK. Sorry but it’s simply not worth it.

It is a great pity but we were always planning on making this move even before the referendum. Looking after sick parents and needing to refurbish the house put such pressure on both my wife and me, we didn’t think we’d ever recover! Thankfully, just being here for a few months has made a vast difference to us both.

Anyway, I feel for anyone who wanted to move to a place in the sun and won’t now be able to.

Can you believe, there are ex pat’s here who are or were leavers!? Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot!

Thanks so much, 

John, not an ex pat, just an ex Brit.

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3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

That's what I assumed.

 

However, there are stories in the press about people who've been caught out ordering online from a .co.uk retailer, only to find that the company are actually based in an EU country, but using local URL's  and the goods have been delivered with an additional bill for VAT, duty and charges, from the courier company.

 

.

Similar situation here in Ireland,  Ordered some items from Argos,  they have an Irish .ie website and retail stores within Ireland  however if you place an order online for home delivery then the goods are sent from the UK!  Just received my order today place on 3rd January (5 day delivery on the website). Speaking to Argos customer services it was originally held up by UK customs and then Irish customs before been cleared. All was paid in € inc. the Irish VAT.   

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58 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Can you believe, there are ex pat’s here who are or were leavers!? Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot!

 

Yeah I lost all hope at that point, there are no words.

 

Back at Xmas 2019 SWMBO and I were on a coach trip to see Andre Rieu (not my cup of tea at all but dream gig for SWMBO) and the Dutch coach driver asked the assembled OAPs (I was the youngest on the coach at 58) why they were so keen on brexit. The resounding answer was "because we won the war" (ignoring the fact none of the would've been old enough to play any active part in WW2 anyway).

 

Just to add to the insanity of the situation the concert was in Maastricht lol.

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Sorry for being slightly OT,

 

Re the Carnet/ATA mentioned above, which would be needed for layouts going abroad.

From what I can see, these aren't for free,  £360 seems to be the price for these.

 

As both an Exhibitor and assistant show organiser, I've a feeling that this additional cost will probably all but stop layouts going UK to EU and vice versa, 

 

I hope I'm proved wrong

 

  

 

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1 hour ago, irishmail said:

Similar situation here in Ireland,  Ordered some items from Argos,  they have an Irish .ie website and retail stores within Ireland  however if you place an order online for home delivery then the goods are sent from the UK!  Just received my order today place on 3rd January (5 day delivery on the website). Speaking to Argos customer services it was originally held up by UK customs and then Irish customs before been cleared. All was paid in € inc. the Irish VAT.   

 

Large companies will probably be able to take it in their stride as their systems will probably be tried and tested

 

Its the small and one man band operators that have now discovered an unpleasant complexity that will be hit the hardest.

Unfortunately they are where all the model railway gold can usually  be found.

 

I really do despair at the clear as mud communications on the rules, how they are spread about on different parts of websites (both the UK's and the EU's) and the ambiguity of some phrases used.

 

If the professionals are struggling, how on earth is the average Joe sat in front of a PC going to manage?

 

I think I have got my head round it, but I'm not entirely sure

 

Andy

(having to re-assess his retirement plans now)

 

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You only have to look at this page guide from the government to see they have no clue about any of this

The answers for the first question change from nationality to country halfway through, and also don’t allow for the fact you and your family might not be the same nationality. It doesn’t get any better with the later questions

 

https://www.gov.uk/transition-check/questions

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1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Yeah I lost all hope at that point, there are no words.

 

Back at Xmas 2019 SWMBO and I were on a coach trip to see Andre Rieu (not my cup of tea at all but dream gig for SWMBO) and the Dutch coach driver asked the assembled OAPs (I was the youngest on the coach at 58) why they were so keen on brexit. The resounding answer was "because we won the war" (ignoring the fact none of the would've been old enough to play any active part in WW2 anyway).

 

Just to add to the insanity of the situation the concert was in Maastricht lol.

 

I believe John Cleese was often baffled and flabbergasted at how many Brits failed to understand the thrust of a certain sitcom he wrote, especially a 'certain' episode!!

 

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9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Simple question, but I'm not wishing to wade through nine pages, much of which looks well-OT, to find the answer, so forgive me if its already been given:

 

Do we now have to pay VAT and customs duty on hobby goods ordered from Europe, as we do with stuff from the USA?

 

Possible answers: Yes; No; We should, but the bureaucracy hasn't caught-up yet; Some suppliers can levy at source and give an "all-in" invoice, as some USA suppliers do.

 

 

 

Yes, we have to pay VAT at UK rate, currently 20%, on these goods, come what may. For orders with a "landed value" (i.e. pre-tax sale price plus shipping cost) above £135, we must also pay customs duty.

 

 As noted above, toys and models have zero rate of customs duty, but paints, tools and raw materials may not.

 

Below the threshold for shipping duty, the European retailer is supposed to collect the VAT. Above that threshold (even if there is no duty actually to pay), the customer's customs agent collects it. If the customer appoints no customs agent, the courier organisation fulfils that role by default.

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6 minutes ago, Talltim said:

You only have to look at this page guide from the government to see they have no clue about any of this

The answers for the first question change from nationality to country halfway through, and also don’t allow for the fact you and your family might not be the same nationality. It doesn’t get any better with the later questions

 

https://www.gov.uk/transition-check/questions

 

:offtopic: Could be worse. You could have your immigration status held on  a secure Home Office server.

 

What could possibly go wrong?

 

Andy

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Lots of useful information on this thread, as well as some misunderstandings.

 

In my experience, German retailers can deduct German VAT. Two orders I placed last year have been sent in 2021 and for both I was charged ex-VAT prices.  The retailers are presumably used to doing this when sending items outside the EU, such as to Switzerland.

Because there could be no border on the island of Ireland, there is one in the Irish Sea and much of what has been written above only applies to trade between the EU and England, Scotland or Wales.  Northern Ireland is effectively sort of  still in the EU for some purposes.

Exhibitions will be a problem.  Traders and exhibitors will need paperwork to show what they take out is what they bring back in, and pay VAT on anything they sell. Divergence between GB and EU requirements will occur and some items, such as electrical equipment may need to be certified twice, for GB and EU, as the CE mark will not be accepted in GB.  Also selling to consumers may require a work permit with the end of freedom of movement of people.

 

What a shambles 

 

 

   

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The CE mark is an interesting one. 

AIUI it is a self certification system and is obviously misunderstood by many especially by those who make UK 3 pin plugs. 

There is no EU standard for the 3 pin plug  so how can it be certified as meeting a standard that doesn't exist?

 

Divergence will be a major problem that will only lead to more delays and costs to the exporter.

 

I did see one estimate that with standards not being mutually recognised it would cost up to £2,000  and several days just to get a container through customs 

 

A shambles indeed.

 

Andy

 

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9 hours ago, SM42 said:

The CE mark is an interesting one. 

AIUI it is a self certification system and is obviously misunderstood by many especially by those who make UK 3 pin plugs. 

There is no EU standard for the 3 pin plug  so how can it be certified as meeting a standard that doesn't exist?

 

Divergence will be a major problem that will only lead to more delays and costs to the exporter.

 

I did see one estimate that with standards not being mutually recognised it would cost up to £2,000  and several days just to get a container through customs 

 

A shambles indeed.

 

Andy

 

The CE mark is not usually about design, it's to show that a product performs as required.  In most cases the user cannot test this, so the manufacturer has the product tested and the manufacturer or a third party body certifies the product as fit for purpose.  This applies to all sorts of things from seatbelts to hard hats to toys to electrical equipment.  The reason why many model railway items (especially in Germany) are labelled as not suitable for children under 14 is because the items do not meet the requirements for safe toys - they have sharp edges or small parts that can be a choking hazard.  While the tests  and requirements may be the same, from next year the CE mark is still used in the EU but the UKCA mark in GB.  For Northern Ireland it will be the CE or CE and UKNI marks.  There's a guide at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking

 

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9 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

There is no EU standard for the 3 pin plug  so how can it be certified as meeting a standard that doesn't exist?

 

Divergence will be a major problem that will only lead to more delays and costs to the exporter.

 

I did see one estimate that with standards not being mutually recognised it would cost up to £2,000  and several days just to get a container through customs 

 

A shambles indeed.

 

Andy

 

CE isn't a standard though, it's a declaration that a product confirms to all relevant standards. Typical examples being EMC, material composition and product safety. The idea being the consumer only has to look for the one approvals mark irrespective of whether they're buying a pair of wellies or a TV.

 

I hadn't realised Johnson has chucked CE marking overboard, is this an established fact? For those of us used to dealing with CE / FCC / UL / CSA / KCC / CCC then it's just another tear in a salty sea, but for sure more pointless hassle and expense in the supply chain.

 

Yet more pointless "red tape" that has to be paid for.

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Even better as am importer of branded items from around the world we now have to approach various suppliers and request they amend their packaging for a compliance mark relevant to a market that may only make up 2%-5% of their total sales.....given the deadline of 2023 for the ukca mark being “permanently attached” suggesting a sticker on the outer plastic wrap or equivalent is a no-no.... 

 

If the uk regulations change will they pay for the compliance checks (as they do for the larger whole of EU market) or try and pass it to us as only relevant to our much smaller market.

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17 minutes ago, John Harris said:

 

"Free Trade" does not apply or affect local taxes, like VAT.

 

jch

That I can understand, and far as I know each EU state can set its own rate of VAT etc.     From what I can see we 'may' still be liable for custom duties and handling fees even for gifts!  See this update from anpost, (Irish post office). 

https://www.anpost.com/Post-Parcels/Receiving/Delivering-after-Brexit

 

 

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FAO Mods,   could this thread be changed to Buying and Selling models to/from Europe?   

Reason I suggest this is like me there are quite a few English/UK citizens now living in the EU so this topic is of interest to all parties.

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