Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Barry Ten]

And vice versa, I learned to drive in the Netherlands but had to surrender my Dutch license when I returned to the UK.

 

I also have a horse riding license (ruiterbewijs).

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

I also have a horse riding license (ruiterbewijs).

 

So can be be arrested for drunk in charge if you have too many stirrup cups?

 

When I was learning to drive,  I had to learn how to given hand signals from a horse drawn vehicle using the whip.  It was all in  the Highway Code (HMSO, price 6d) 

[LimboBrit]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I also have a horse riding license (ruiterbewijs).

I didn’t realise such a thing existed. 

[SM42]

8 hours ago, Nick C said:

Or four years residency in Poland and a level B1 Polish language certificate - the latter being very much the hard bit!

 

Fortunately my wife got her UK citizenship before all this kicked off, so we're ok from that perspective. Amusingly she's just renewed her UK passport, so currently the only person I know with a much-vaunted blue passport is one of the very foreigners the racists wanted to get rid of!

 

One thing that's not clear is how we prove our freedom of movement rights when travelling to Schengen with our EU citizen spouses - do they have to go through the "non-eu" queue with us? Luckily Krakow airport is small enough that both queues are usually pretty short, and adjacent!

 

 

You will have to use the non EU queue whilst they use the EU queue. Lord knows about the Channel Tunnel. Probably just take longer

 

I wrote freedom to live, an important distinction. Not freedom to travel back and forth as a tourist without restriction,

 

Basically if you are the spouse of an EU citizen, under freedom on movement, you have the right to join them in living in the EU, regardless of your nationality, on the proviso that you are not living in their home country. I'm not sure about working though in this case. You'll need to check up on that.

 

In terms of travelling to the Schengen zone with a UK  passport, you will in all likelihood be questioned on arrival on what you are doing there, how long you are staying and will have to show you have means of self support and a return ticket. All the usual border questions

 

Your passport cannot be vaild for more than 10 years and must have at least 6 months (180 days) left on it when you cross the border.

 

You will have 90 days in the Schengen zone in any 180 days.  That means that in any rolling 180 day period you can visit as many times as you like but you can't spend more than 90 days in total. i.e 21 days in March and 10 days in June will be 31 days. You can then use the rest of your 90 days allowance up to September.

 

For those with regular UK employment it is unlikely you will exceed the limit. Retirees and free spirits may, on the other hand,  have to keep a good track of their diary

 

There are a few countries (I recall Bulgaria as one) where your visit doesn't count towards the 90 day running total.

 

In terms of Andy Hayter's  point above about visiting multiple countries, I've yet to enter or depart the Schengen zone by air without a passport check. I suspect those driving will now  see the same attention and I can be reasonably sure a record will be kept against  your passport number, or even in it, (which as you recall must have 6 months left on it on entry and the UK passport office stopped giving you the unused months of your old passport on your new  a couple of years back)

 

 

Important to note the time constraints  if you are intending to take regular shopping trips to  your favourite EU supplier in person in order to get a bigger allowance at the UK border. (Phew! back on topic sort of)

 

At some point in 2022 I believe you will need to apply and pay for  an ETSA (?)  which is similar to the document you need to visit the USA currently.  The fee I think is a few pounds, but full details are yet to be revealed

 

Andy

(who despite all the new rules is quite looking forward to being able to travel to the EU again and will no doubt be sucked into my local, not so local to the UK model shop and have to pay the price in the red channel at Dover)

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by SM42

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, LimboBrit said:

I didn’t realise such a thing existed. 

 

In practical terms I never made much use of it. It allowed me to show up at any accredited riding stables and (in theory) be allowed to take a horse out on my own, or another two riders out under my direction. I had to sit theory and practical exams much like a driving license.

[Ian Morgan]

I had to get an ESTA when I visited the US a few years ago. You had to get it online and pay with a credit card. I assumed it was the US outsourcing the identity and address checking to the credit card companies.

 

 

[etendam]

In the beginning of this topic there was a discussion about business sellers needs to collect VAT on behalf of the HRMC. Please note that the EU will introduce a similar system now scheduled at july 1st. (It was also scheduled at Jan 1st but it was delayed as of Covid) In the EU the new system is called IOSS. What does it mean?

 

- Ending €22 import VAT exemption in the entire EU. So an small item that is now sent as a letter will be subject to VAT. (And the handling fee of course!)

 

- Sellers from outside the EU that sell items to private persons or small businesses (That are exempted from VAT) sellers will be responsible to collect the VAT for the country where the items are shipped to. Then you will need a EU VAT number to continue selling (And in some countries a fiscal rep.) or make use of distibutors / importers.

 

So a lot of things that have been said before only counts for a few months and then everything starts all over again. This explains why so many large UK based companies has setup selling hubs / warehouses in the EU just to be prepared. 

 

Ed

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 hours ago, etendam said:

So a lot of things that have been said before only counts for a few months and then everything starts all over again. This explains why so many large UK based companies has setup selling hubs / warehouses in the EU just to be prepared. 

 

It also explains why a not inconsiderable number of smaller suppliers have jacked it all in too.

 

Mike.

[Maltazer]

I received an order from Trenietreni this morning, via DHL.  Italian IVA was charged at 22%, but DHL will also be charging £47 in VAT/duty/Fees (apparently I'll get the bill sometime in the future - they didn't charge it before delivering).

 

I did expect this double-dipping of VAT, and Trenietreni included a receipt showing it, but I don't suppose there's any way to get back that Italian part.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Maltazer

[Andy Hayter]

You cab legitimately ask then to refund you the tax.

[LimboBrit]

11 minutes ago, Maltazer said:

I don't suppose there's any way to get back that Italian part.

It may be difficult but I don't think the IVA should have been charged in the first place

[Maltazer]

24 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

It may be difficult but I don't think the IVA should have been charged in the first place

 

Possibly, but we seem to be in this worst-of-both-worlds state at the moment where the trade deal is making buying from the EU harder than from the rest of the world. 

 

It will be sorted out eventually, but in the meantime it looks like we'll need to be prepared for the higher costs.  On the plus side it was still a next-day delivery!

[Andy Hayter]

It is no harder once everyone understands the rules and applies them.  Like any change it takes time to bed in.  

[etendam]

2 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

It may be difficult but I don't think the IVA should have been charged in the first place

If the purchase is below £ 135 then the Italian supplier should charge the UK VAT and pay this to the HMRS.  In that case the Italian company can't refund the VAT. If he mentioned the paid VAT on the DHL shipping documentation (Including his UK VAT number) then DHL shouldn't charge the VAT twice. If the Italian company doesn't have a UK VAT number he shouldn't have charged VAT and then he should handle the VAT by the DHL.

 

So unless you know exactly what the case is you can't just say to the Italian company the should refund the VAT!

 

Ed

[LimboBrit]

8 minutes ago, etendam said:

If the purchase is below £ 135

Judging by the amount DHL want to collect in this case it sounds like the purchase price is more than £135

[Dagworth]

20 minutes ago, etendam said:

If the purchase is below £ 135 then the Italian supplier should charge the UK VAT and pay this to the HMRS.

That would be great for the Historical Model Railway Society, not sure HMRC would approve though

 

Andi

 

[Maltazer]

41 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

Judging by the amount DHL want to collect in this case it sounds like the purchase price is more than £135

Purchase price was 244 Euro, so well over the £135 limit. 

 

There seems to be a requirement for EU firms to register with HMRC if they want to sell ex-VAT, which I'd imagine most won't want to be bothered with.  That's not something I ever heard was necessary for non-EU suppliers though.

[Neils WRX]

I had my parcel from Belgium I mentioned earlier in the thread. The shipper had helpfully put their label over the top of the customs form, so you couldn't see what was written on it.

 

The parcel was just handed to me at the door as it would have been before the 1/1/21, but I was expecting to pay UK VAT having already paid Belgian VAT.

 

I'm a little confused I just appear to have had to but up with double shipping costs rather than double VAT....

 

Stay safe everyone,

 

Neil

[LimboBrit]

6 minutes ago, Maltazer said:

Purchase price was 244 Euro, so well over the £135 limit.

...which confirms confirms what I thought. You should not have paid Italian IVA and all UK VAT/duties and handling fees should be paid to the courier.

[etendam]

4 hours ago, Maltazer said:

There seems to be a requirement for EU firms to register with HMRC if they want to sell ex-VAT, which I'd imagine most won't want to be bothered with.  That's not something I ever heard was necessary for non-EU suppliers though.

 

When a registered VAT business exports outside the EU the local TAX should not be on the invoice. (Even not for a purchase of 0.01) We have exported around the world for many years. To export  items (up to £ 135) to the UK however the seller is responsible to collect the UK VAT. Around 40% of the companies refuse to do so, (because of the additional administration costs, accountant, Not many UK shipments or they just don't want to work with this system) and they will mostly let you pay the local VAT. Then the courier comes to collect the shipment and sees that there is no UK VAT number on the shipping label. In that case he must collect the UK VAT and the handling fee. The handling fee doesn't mean you have double shipping costs, they charge you for clearing a shipment on behalf of the customs.

 

The same will apply when the EU IOSS system will start and EU VAT nr's are needed. Not everybody will do so as well. Therefor Aliexpress, Ebay, Amazon made arrangements with local TAX authorities to collect the VAT but even then buyers will face double VAT. 

 

Is this how the governments think how the domestic market should be protected? (wishful thinking) 

 

Ed

 

 

 

[Jonboy]

It’s an interesting one because a similar obligation was created several years ago for digital services (mp3 music, pdf documents etc etc) a few years ago (VAT MOSS) but I didn’t really see anything on how it worked out as I don’t work with such sales in my industry.

[5944]

Well I tried to place an order for some books and DVDs with Duegi Editrice in Italy last night. Last time I looked, postage to the UK for an order that size was €25. This time the cost was €70! Not sure I can justify that at the moment. Tecnomodel in Livorno are still saying free postage to UK, but I guess that means I'll get stung for the fees this end instead. 

[Geep7]

8 minutes ago, 5944 said:

Well I tried to place an order for some books and DVDs with Duegi Editrice in Italy last night. Last time I looked, postage to the UK for an order that size was €25. This time the cost was €70! Not sure I can justify that at the moment. Tecnomodel in Livorno are still saying free postage to UK, but I guess that means I'll get stung for the fees this end instead. 

I found the same thing when I was looking place an order with one of my favoured Spanish model shops. Looks almost to be a percentage cost of the value if the goods....

[LimboBrit]

8 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

Looks almost to be a percentage cost of the value if the goods....

Could it be that local VAT is being disguised as shipping costs?

[Geep7]

15 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

Could it be that local VAT is being disguised as shipping costs?

No, as that seems to be included in the price before shipping.... It's all so confusing....