Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Neils WRX]

25 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

It depends.

If goods are shipped with the Global Shipping program, then all import costs are covered (with a healthy margin for the shipping company).

If the seller does his own shipping then normally the import costs are not covered.

 

I have read somewhere that UK customs are taking a light touch to import costs for private purchases until 1.7.2021 - also know as "we don't have the resources to do it properly".

 

Pretty sure the shop didn't use the Global Shipping Program, as the cost was normal from Germany. Re Customs I think the box had been opened and re sealed as the shop tape was split on the bottom, and re taped up.

 

Guess they saw a "toy train" and ignored it ?

 

Neil 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just to add to the personal anecdotes about recent experience.

Ex-pat No1 son messaged from the South of France yesterday morning to say a package for him will be delivered here (at our home in the U.K.)  sometime that day.

Not an uncommon short noice warning to let us know he’s ordered something to be delivered here, either for safe keeping, until he comes home on leave, or for posting on to him, to wherever he’s currently resident.

 

About an hour later, DHL delivered a small robust box, which appears to have been despatched and posted from a company in Austria.

The usual DHL shipping label was attached, but there was no indication of customs markings, or any separate customs label.

The label stated the contents as a “watch”.

There was no request for any fee, VAT, or handling charge.

 

I notified my son that his package had arrived and he phoned up to ask if we could forward it to his new address in France.

He said it was a smart watch he had ordered a couple of weeks ago, before he knew what his new address was going to be .

Apparently the purchase cost was around €250 post and packaging included, as quoted on the website which he ordered from.

No additional charges were made for postage to the U.K. and no customs paperwork or labels were present on receipt.

 

I’m just wondering what process has happened here, in light of the various permutations regarding the new trading  and customs rules?

 

The next stage is posting it to France. No doubt we’ll fall foul of the system and get double charged and ripped off for handling fees this time around.

 

.

[Andy Hayter]

From my experience, yes you are right, customs duties, VAT and a handling fee would apply if you sent it on to France.

 

I received a loco from Rails in January - VAT due plus a handling fee from La Poste (post office).

I have just received 3 x 4 wheel vans from Rails.  I asked for them to be shipped separately.   This of course cost a bit more.  When they arrived, no VAT was requested = no charges.  Combined their cost would have been similar to the loco received at the start of the year.  

 

The French customs site says clearly that VAT is due from the first Euro but I have read (but cannot now find, nor can I find official confirmation) that for values below €42, the customs will not pursue any VAT due.

 

An experiment that seems to have worked out very well.

[Downer]

 Same here. Living in France, I’ve just been ordering stuff in small batches totalling less than £35, and so far no additional fees. Locos are pre-ordered at my long-time UK local model shop for eventual collection in person. I guess the crunch will come when 18000 is sent across to France by Rails. I’m assuming a big add-on, and trying to convince myself that’s just the price of living where I can afford enough space for a big layout.

[LimboBrit]

At the beginning of the week I took delivery of two sound decoders from YouChoos. I was expecting to pay Dutch VAT on receipt but no. I might well order a couple more while the going looks good.

[Vinedusk]

Quote

Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

 

So how much does this additional UK surcharging add to a EU220 purchase?

What does a 500g package cost to ship from DE to UK?

 

I think Australia adds 4% to values over AUD1000, but then DHL shipping adds 37-55 euros to the overall cost for a pacjakge of around 500g.

 

I'm now curious to see if you Brits are really any worse off than us colonials down here at the end of the earth (and global freight routes).

[Guest WM183]

I've actually changed my focus for now to German modelling; shipping from Germany to the Netherlands still seems pricey, but at least it's free of the customs stuff. Hopefully the trade concerns between the UK and the EU are solved, though to be fair, the EU has no reason to wish to do so. Stinky situation for all of us.

I didn't get a Brexit vote. It's still ruined the hobby (UK railways) for me. I suspect many people in the UK are in my same boat with their choice of continental modelling subjects. If I can help anyone in the UK get things that do not ship to you anymore, let me know. Perhaps someone there can do the same for me with bits from Eileens and the like. (( I am not talking about evading customs, I am talking about actually getting stuff from businesses who no longer engage in UK - EU trade ))

 

Getting ready to weather my new BR 94,

Amanda, the BR-less

[Bernard Lamb]

Parcel (up to 2kg) just arrived from Germany using DHL.

Nothing to pay.

So far so good.

Let us see what July brings.

Bernard

[Philou]

2 hours ago, WM183 said:

shipping from Germany to the Netherlands still seems pricey, but at least it's free of the customs stuff

Unfortunately @WM183, as I understand it, the VAT rules between member states will change on 01.07.2021 to be based on the Brexit model. It just that the UK has had a six-month head-start ..................

 

I see doom and confusion on the horizon for everyone .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[Guest WM183]

7 hours ago, Philou said:

Unfortunately @WM183, as I understand it, the VAT rules between member states will change on 01.07.2021 to be based on the Brexit model. It just that the UK has had a six-month head-start ..................

 

I see doom and confusion on the horizon for everyone .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

Oh come ON. Sigh.

[Philou]

Whilst there won't be duties payable on intra-EU transactions, the rules regarding VAT payments ARE changing - VAT payable at country of recipient rather than country of despatch. If you happen to live in a country where the VAT rate is higher than the sender's rate, I assume you will pay the higher rate. I don't recall if the recipient will cough up or if the sender pays, but new arrangements will need to be in place.

 

Being the EU, I expect it will be seamless *cough* ............. as each country can set it's own rate of VAT (within a defined limit).

 

 

[Vinedusk]

THIS did not help at all.

 

Does "10.000" mean 10 euros? or 10 000 euros?

 

If we can't concur on how to identify a decimal place, then this may be the real reason for "Vat fraud".

 

[railroadbill]

Well, having followed everyone's experience on this thread...

 

I was "watching" a loco on e-bay being offered as buy it now by a German model shop.   The potential complications now in buying it and having it sent to the UK  had put me off.  Anyway, they dropped the price, I bought it.

 

1. E-bay has charged VAT as a separate additional cost. This appears to be UK VAT,   it is 20% which is the UK rate. (Germany is 19%).  E-bay note is "According to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier".

 

2. The package is being sent by DHL, so far it's reached the stage "Weiterleitung zur Exportbearbeitung"  (forwarded to export processing) which looks hopeful.  The process has at least started.

 

3.  The VAT was applied to item cost and shipping. The price is well under £135 so E-Bay was collecting the VAT as it should.

 

I shall wait and see, hopefully everything has now been paid unless DHL come up with some further processing charge.  I'll report back, hopefully favourably!

 

[pharrc20]

I have just today had an order with a well known German supplier of gear wheel pullers refunded via PayPal. Upon enquiring why they came back with false information, which I suspect has got lost in translation somewhere. Upon further emails it is the fact that it is a GB UK address that the item is to be shipped to. Having first looked into buying this item on behalf of my uncle at the end of 2020 and then again at start of this year when there was seemingly no option to select a GB UK address, I thought leave it a few months and try again. I couldn't see anything on the translated version of their website stating they will no ship to GB UK addresses so went ahead and ordered said item.

 

I have politely suggested they amend their website again if they are not willing to supply GB UK customers to avoid further issues with orders until such a time things are fully resolved regarding sending orders to the UK.

 

Cheers Paul

[njee20]

On 24/04/2021 at 00:59, Vinedusk said:

THIS did not help at all.

 

Does "10.000" mean 10 euros? or 10 000 euros?

 

If we can't concur on how to identify a decimal place, then this may be the real reason for "Vat fraud".

 

€10,000. Most European countries use commas and decimal places the opposite way around to us, so an item would be €4.999,99. Always looks wrong to me!

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I'm currently experiencing the best and worst of times with regard to UK - Spain transactions.

Dealing with Hattons I pay their UK VAT inclusive price and very reasonable shipping charges, and, so far, have had no additional charges incurred.

Dealing with Rapid Direct I pay their UK VAT exclusive price, then get ripped off by DHL both in their initial delivery charge and their "handling fee" for collecting import duties.

I have had satisfactory dealings with other UK suppliers with regard to UK VAT exclusive purchases and paid no further fees, but when my daughter sends me my items I have purchased on eBay or from UK suppliers who don't send abroad, then I've had to pay duty fees, but then again it was DHL it was couriered by, so I detect a pattern emerging!

Seems to me their is no "official" guidance available or being followed.

 

Mike.

 

[Philou]

@Enterprisingwestern Do you have an option to have your parcels sent by Royal Mail 'signed-for'? For the time being, I've had no hassle whatsoever with Royal Mail/La Poste here in France ............... I hope it continues .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Andy Hayter]

13 hours ago, pharrc20 said:

I have just today had an order with a well known German supplier of gear wheel pullers refunded via PayPal. Upon enquiring why they came back with false information, which I suspect has got lost in translation somewhere. Upon further emails it is the fact that it is a GB UK address that the item is to be shipped to. Having first looked into buying this item on behalf of my uncle at the end of 2020 and then again at start of this year when there was seemingly no option to select a GB UK address, I thought leave it a few months and try again. I couldn't see anything on the translated version of their website stating they will no ship to GB UK addresses so went ahead and ordered said item.

 

I have politely suggested they amend their website again if they are not willing to supply GB UK customers to avoid further issues with orders until such a time things are fully resolved regarding sending orders to the UK.

 

Cheers Paul

 

A bit of speculation on my part, but the problem might lie in the fact that the seller has to provide a certificate of origin if it is not already clearly indicated.  It could well be that other items in their range do not suffer the same problem.  

 

I strongly suspect that this is one problem that Eileen's emporium are having and why they are no longer selling to the EU.  

 

Remember these sorts of items are not classified as model railway items but (probably) as tools or metal stock and then you get into all sorts of complications of duty payable as well as VAT.  

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 hours ago, Philou said:

@Enterprisingwestern Do you have an option to have your parcels sent by Royal Mail 'signed-for'? For the time being, I've had no hassle whatsoever with Royal Mail/La Poste here in France ............... I hope it continues .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

That would be a possible option Philip, but I've heard from others that duties can be payable by that route, so I may take a chance next time, I can be no worse off.

 

Mike.

[etendam]

On 26/04/2021 at 22:07, railroadbill said:

 

 

I shall wait and see, hopefully everything has now been paid unless DHL come up with some further processing charge.  I'll report back, hopefully favourably!

 

When Ebay has taken care of the VAT then rhe seller gets a note in the payment details with a VAT number. When this is added on the shipping label it will arrive without additional costs.

As a seller we have done this a lot and nthis works well.

 

Ed

[etendam]

On 27/04/2021 at 14:05, Andy Hayter said:

 

A bit of speculation on my part, but the problem might lie in the fact that the seller has to provide a certificate of origin if it is not already clearly indicated.  It could well be that other items in their range do not suffer the same problem.  

 

 

No this isn't the issue...when selling directly to customers in the UK (without Ebay or other selling places) the seller must have a UK VAT number and pay the VAT for purchases below £ 135. About 50 % of the EU businesses refuse to request for a UK VAT number as it isn't just the VAT that are the costs but you have to pay your bookkeeper also an additional fee for the extra work that is involved.

I know that a lot of companies have said that is then easier not to supply UK customers anymore as long as this VAT rule is valid.

 

Ed

[etendam]

For those who are buying importing items from the UK into the EU please note that on July 26th 2021 the European regulations regarding CE are changing. Modeltrains must have a CE Marking and from then on the company that sells products in the EU must have an authorised representative in the EU.

 

An authorised representative in the EU can be:

 

• The manufacturer or the brand
• The importer
• An authorised representative designated as the authorised representative by the manufacturer

 

This person must be established in the European Union.

 

For some companies it will be difficult to sell items in the EU. This is one of the reasons why Hornby has setup a distribution point in the Netherlands (Beside VAT, Duties etc) The customs are entitled to block modeltrains coming in the EU. without the proper paperwork. How do they know there are modeltrains in a parcel.....because the HS Code 9503003000 is used and this is a TOY classification where CE is mandatory!

 

Will the customs check every shipment? Of course not but don't be suprised if they pick out your shipment and block it from entering the EU unless the paperwork is correct!!

 

More reading:

https://www.ecomundo.eu/en/blog/ce-marking-authorised-representative-echeance-juillet-2021

 

Ed

[Colin_McLeod]

4 hours ago, etendam said:

An authorised representative in the EU can be:

 

• The manufacturer or the brand
• The importer
• An authorised representative designated as the authorised representative by the manufacturer

 

 

Could E bay be an "authorised representative in the EU", thus facilitating the purchase of UK private seller items by EU residents.

[etendam]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Could E bay be an "authorised representative in the EU", thus facilitating the purchase of UK private seller items by EU residents.

For CE not! This should be an importer, dealer or something similar. A postal address will also not work as it should be a registered company. He will also be responsible for issues regarding CE. This is a very tricky subject as the company is than responsible and should have insurance for something that isn't made by him if something goes wrong.

 

BTW the new CE regulation hasn't got anything to do with the UK leaving the EU. It was intended for unsafe Chinese Toys and electrical equipment but the UK is affected by this as of the brexit. Especially those in the MRR business as they are clasified as toys. 

 

Ed

Edited April 28, 2021 by etendam

[MikeB]

The CE marking requirement to show conformity with safety requirements is not new for toys (which includes some model railway items). I have ten-year old models (eg Hornby, Bemo, Dapol) which have the CE marking on their boxes The need for an authorised representative  in the EU is new, as this provides somebody to hold to account if the self-assessment of conformity is faulty.   What is also new because of Brexit is that the CE marking is being phased out in the UK, being replaced by UKCA marking (for England, Scotland and Wales) and UKNI marking (for Northern Ireland).