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Buying and Selling models to/from Europe


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1 minute ago, fulton said:

Post Brexit, ordered a number of modelling items from Spain, on line Sunday, from Ammo MIg, delivered today, Wednesday, no hold up, no extra charge.

Sadly, my preferred Spanish outlet doesn't seem to want to ship to the UK at the moment.....

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23 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

I won't be doing that in a hurry. When making a trip back to the UK I won't even be able to stock up any more on Red Leicester cheese, of which I am particularly fond. To get back on topic, I will be planning my purchases so that I can pick them up in person rather than have them shipped.

 

For those wishing to purchase in person and then bring home in luggage, I would suggest checking what the customs regulations for personal import are in your particular country or customs territory.
 

There is a limit to the amount of non excise (booze and fags) goods you can bring into the UK  and I'm sure the same applies for the EU.

 

Rules on gifts sent by post  from friendly residents either side of the border also seem to vary. Last time I checked the limit for gifts from the EU was not specified on the UK government's website. Only the rest of the world and the limits were only around £20

 

You may have to be careful over rules of origin (ROO) too when  crossing the  border.

Whilst I believe model trains are 0% rated for tariffs, I'm not sure how some of the accessories and materials we may use will  be classed. If they are not 0% rated then there will be import tariffs to pay on top of VAT and admin fee bearing in mind a lot of stuff is made in China or India.  Made in the EU or UK should be OK as long as it meets the ROO criteria

 

Still, as travel isn't very likely this year, we have plenty of time to get acquainted with the new way of doing things

 

Andy

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8 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Now that we have a "deal" to be part of the Single Market, I would assume that we reverted to VAT at point of origin. But it has not been made clear.

 

No the "deal", such as it is, only covers import duty not VAT. VAT will be collect at point of entry in the UK. In theory overseas suppliers (EU or otherwise) can deduct the VAT from their own country. Not all will or know how to however.

 

The need to collect VAT at import or postpone it (long, boring story) is currently hammering the freight industry hugely and causing massive delays to cargo from the EU.

Edited by admiles
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On a positive note I have just bought yet another Auhagen kit from a favourite model shop in Oranienburg, just outside Berlin. No delay, transit time via Deutsche Post and Royal Mail just as before - and the shop forgot to add a customs sticker! There is hope!

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1 hour ago, SM42 said:

There is a limit to the amount of non excise (booze and fags) goods you can bring into the UK  and I'm sure the same applies for the EU.

You’re absolutely correct. I’ve already looked into this. I don’t understand the logic of it but when traveling by car each occupant has an allowance of approx £300 non-excise goods. As you say, it will be a while before I get to visit family. 

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On 19/01/2021 at 17:43, rue_d_etropal said:

And some of it is then resold back into UK, as part of sets etc. This 'origin of goods' is one of the big problems, which worries a lot of companies in UK, and has not been sorted out yet.

Theres ways of working that out so the EU importers can put it under Customs Processing procedure and re Export without paying Taxes. Extra cost though and work!, Looking at it here for a customer bring in stuff from UK and then re exporting it back out to EU and 3rd countries.

 

I am actually Regretting now ever getting into UK outline as I have to by any accessories etc from the UK. Pain in the A$$ now. 

 

Edited by Georgeconna
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On 08/01/2021 at 17:38, Geep7 said:

The other crucial point being that all the European railway models now made under the Hornby brand (Electrotren, Arnold, Jouef etc.) are made in China, shipped to the UK and distributed from the warehouse in Kent....

 

Not sure what Bachmann's import model is, but this would effect Lilliput if they do similar.

Again Inward Processing here would be used for this type of Distribution centre

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to-delay-or-pay-less-duty-on-goods-you-import-to-process-or-repair

 

"Processing can be anything from repacking or sorting goods to the most complicated manufacturing."

 

All good Fun!

 

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1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

The other minor detail is it’s approx £300 worth of items per person.
(For example you couldn’t  claim the allowance for a single o gauge loco worth £899 across three occupants in the car...).

What if we can prove that each of us have paid 1/3?

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9 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Many of the UK small suppliers of kits and bits aren't VAT registered. Selling into the EU now attracts a considerable charge to the overseas buyer. I know of one kit manufacturer who already has had some orders cancelled from the EU as the buyer will incur about an extra30% "import and carrier charges". One customer has said he will  will resubmit a £200 order when he can next visit his daughter in London and arrange collection.

 

We may have to wait years before we see any really positive benefit from Brexit.

I do love the optimism.

To paraphrase a remark by Mrs Thatcher. "While I do not like the EU I have to admit that we are better off financially in rather than out". 

While most of you will have the problem of paying more for models think of those in my situation for a moment. I no longer have a legal right to live with some members of my family nor they with me. We are restricted as to what items we can exchange as Christmas or birthday presents. What is allowed is then subject to tax and or duty. No more cases of wine.

Since the Brexit referendum I have used the old East German flag as my avatar. The ultimate irony is that SWMBO came to the UK on a valid East German passport and having kept this it confers on her more rights than she would have had if she had come from West Germany.

Bernard

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13 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

Does being married to somebody German that HTBO entitle you to a German reisepass?

Not without 8 years residence.

Ironically the UK government back in the 1970s was rather more welcoming to immigrants than they are now. No limit on what she could bring and a direct named contact at the Home Office to help with any problems.

My daughter can however get a German passport.

Bernard

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12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Now that we have a "deal" to be part of the Single Market

 

Fatal mistake!

 

As was made crystal clear, for the UK to remain part of the single market post Brexit it would have to..

 

Continue to allow the freedom of movement (i.e. could not impose any restrictions on the amount EU citizens coming here for work / study etc

 

Continue to be subject to the rulings of the European Courts of Justice who would have the ultimate say and sit above the Uk judical system.

 

Continue to make a financial contribution to the EU budget.

 

Boris, Farage and their fellow Brexiters refuse to accept this and hence the UK is NOT in the single market (apart from certain aspects of Northern Ireland so as to prevent the need for a hard border with the Republic).

 

The 'deal' struck at the 11th hour over Christmas is a basic trade agreement on goods (not services by the way) which is all about trying to prevent the need for UK car plants to pay extra tariffs on things like car parts.

 

It does NOTHING to prevent the need for vast reams of paperwork or the need for inspection of things like selfish or prevent travellers from having to throw away any UK purchased sandwiches at the borders the 'importation' of meat and dairy products however small is banned unless it has gone through time consuming checks and has a paperwork trail back to the animal to prove it complies with EU standards.

 

Being part of the single market would eliminate all the above, but for as long as a large chunk of the UK population refuse to accept 'freedom of movement' we are NEVER going to be part of the single market.

 

The VAT changes are however nothing to do with leaving the EU per say as the EU itself is going to radically shake up the rules this summer. What Brexit has done is make things harder as the UK changes are not in sync with the EU plus certain aspects like registering for VAT in the UK would be easier under the single market structures which specifically include financial services (unlike Boris's Christmas deal which is largely about goods).

Edited by phil-b259
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11 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

I consider it as realism rather than optimism.

 

You reap what you sow as the saying goes...

 

Brexiters wanted to regain 'Sovereignty' - well they have, and everything that goes with it!

 

 

The Beeb have also picked up on this.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

 

Although business has been having trouble from the off...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-55584500

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55662544

Edited by phil-b259
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14 hours ago, Kylestrome said:

 

It's nice to see such optimism in the face of adversity.

Pre-Brexit: 

  • "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner
  • Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner
  • There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner.
  • There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign
  • "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller
  • "Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time
  • Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner

Post Brexit:

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Slight problem in using Norway and Switzerland as examples - they're in EFTA - we're not!

 

The issue I have with all this B****t malarkey, is that a number of prominent 'Leavers' moved their money out of the UK into the EU and others got themselves a Euro passport - funny that, eh?

 

Still doesn't address the issue of how I can get UK models into the EU without having to make additional payments ....... :(

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Edit: Joe Biden isn't too warm about the UK being outside the EU either - allegedly.

Edited by Philou
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Just been trying to work this out. I think I've got it right...

 

If you import something you have to pay import VAT and customs duty if it's over £135. But you can bring in £390 worth of stuff if it's for personal use. So if I buy something for £390 online from the EU and want it posted, it'll cost me nearly £500 with import VAT, customs duty and handling fee, before the seller knocks of their country's VAT. In which case, it's going to be cheaper to fly over there, buy it myself, and bring it back in hand luggage!  Once we're allowed to fly, of course. 

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7 minutes ago, 5944 said:

Just been trying to work this out. I think I've got it right...

 

If you import something you have to pay import VAT and customs duty if it's over £135. But you can bring in £390 worth of stuff if it's for personal use. So if I buy something for £390 online from the EU and want it posted, it'll cost me nearly £500 with import VAT, customs duty and handling fee, before the seller knocks of their country's VAT. In which case, it's going to be cheaper to fly over there, buy it myself, and bring it back in hand luggage!  Once we're allowed to fly, of course. 

 

 

But the vendor in the EU should now be selling to you at exc VAT prices, not the price after local VAT 

 

If they are a decent sized company, they will then apply UK VAT (being VAT registered) account for it with HMRC, and send you the goods - no duty, VAT or handling this end.

 

This is worldwide, by the way: I recently had to buy something from the US , and the vendor applied UK VAT at origin and sent the goods - no duty , VAT or handling to pay at this end

 

This should really only be an issue with small businesses and private individuals . The issue for modellers is that model shops and specialist trade on the Continent are almost all small businesses and private individuals....

 

It looks like this system is going EU wide from 1/7, so EU companies will either have to register for VAT in all countries they do business with, or leave the buyer to sort it out at his end. VAT registration is a one-off modest cost, so should be viable for a business . The hassle and burden is accounting with multiple tax collectors for VAT . I can see that many companies simply won't bother with VAT registration with the smaller EU states. However as the second largest country in Europe (Russia excluded) it should normally be worth their while doing so for the UK

 

Clearly this change will restrict online purchasing from another country , to a degree, and I suspect that - in an EU context - that is one thing some Member States intended  when they agreed it.

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I'm probably just stating the obvious, but this just feels like a huge step back in time, rather than being progressive.... Hopefully something more simple will get sorted out at some point in the future, but i'm not holding my breath. I guess i'll just have to suck it up, and pay more to get those items I can't get here in the UK....

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35 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

I'm probably just stating the obvious, but this just feels like a huge step back in time, rather than being progressive.... Hopefully something more simple will get sorted out at some point in the future, but i'm not holding my breath. I guess i'll just have to suck it up, and pay more to get those items I can't get here in the UK....

 

To me it will be just like the early 1990's you travel to Belgium and see what models they have in the shop window, and buy it if you want to. The internet came along and made the whole process easier (ie I didn't have to go to the shops, I could see what they had and order / purchase what I wanted). 

 

With all the added charges it will be cheaper to get on a plane go on a day trip (using a blue passport that won't work the EU biometric gates) and bring back what I want.

 

Wondering how much the loco I brought at the beginning of the week is actually going to cost me, on top of the double postage costs for being outside the EU.

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Neil

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On 19/01/2021 at 19:36, Geep7 said:

Sadly not..... but working on persuading the wife that we need to go on a long weekend to Barca.... Well, I need to go and see how La Sagrada Familiar is progressing.... although I don't think it'll be until next year sadly (and that's not Brexit related....).

I think they'll still be building it next year...

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2 hours ago, 5944 said:

In which case, it's going to be cheaper to fly over there, buy it myself, and bring it back in hand luggage!

 

And, if you do that, which customs channel are you going to go through when you return to the UK? :scratchhead:

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