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RTR OO9 Locos and Rolling Stock: Compatibility (physically and prototypically)


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1 hour ago, Andy Kirkham said:

This is how I saw it being done at Gniezno in Poland. The loco drew the wagons onto the transporter with a cable while running on a parallel track. A bit of challenge to represent in a model.

Preparing the train at Gniezno. Sept 1991

 

 

Yes, I suppose it's dependant on what is around at the time, both the German and Czech ones I've seen use a SG loco pushing them on.

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BTW all the East Europeans use the large headlights (of various sizes!) and have done for a hundred years or more, they aren't all that bright, though, especially compared with the things modern railways use!

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2 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

This is how I saw it being done at Gniezno in Poland. The loco drew the wagons onto the transporter with a cable while running on a parallel track. A bit of challenge to represent in a model.

Preparing the train at Gniezno. Sept 1991

 

 

I think there was a Continental 0 gauge model at exhibitions a few years ago that demonstrated different ways of loading onto different types of transporters.

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On 05/01/2021 at 10:01, PaulRhB said:

Ok compatibility is well dealt with above but also note the wide variety of stock run together on real ng lines. The FR has Victorian bug boxes running alongside modern large bogie stock and while the GVT coaches are indeed bigger than the L&B 4whl goods stock the same goods stock ran behind the much longer L&B coaches. 009 covers from small 2ft gauge to large and up to 2ft 6in prototypes so the vehicle size can vary a lot. 
 

Manufacturers

Peco do an excellent range of L&B, GVT and increasing range of Festiniog stock. 
These look great with the Heljan Manning Wardles, (the MW’s are probably the most troublesome 009 rtr loco due to not liking 12” radius or below without minor mods, see the thread on them in Heljan), the Fourdees GVT locos and the Kato FR England & Fairlies are sure to be a fine runners too. 
The Bachmann Baldwin is superb and available in several prototype and a couple of freelance liveries such as Southern to match L&B stock. 
The Minitrains range offers some nice European prototypes plus a nice Bagnall that look good with most Peco stock. 
Also see Bachmann’s 009 Thomas range as the Talyllyn coaches and slate wagons are lovely models although the other  goods stock is just reboxed Peco models at a slightly higher price!

 

I would add on that Bachmann's NG TTTE range offers 2 fairly excellent models in Skarloey and Rheneas. Both pretty accurate to their respective prototypes as is(and even closer with the addition of the Narrow Planet kits), and even Rusty(though far from Midlander) is decent bashing material for a large Ruston-esque diesel. 

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10 hours ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

I would add on that Bachmann's NG TTTE range offers 2 fairly excellent models in Skarloey and Rheneas. Both pretty accurate to their respective prototypes as is(and even closer with the addition of the Narrow Planet kits), and even Rusty(though far from Midlander) is decent bashing material for a large Ruston-esque diesel. 

 

And hopefully Peter Sam to follow at some point this year as well..

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2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Isn't that what 'Stanhope' is, as well as the Corris locos?

Yes, and they also worked at Bowaters and the Fort William aluminium works.

 

I believe outside frames were more common than inside.

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5 hours ago, Font T said:

And hopefully Peter Sam to follow at some point this year as well..

Only issue is the tv Peter Sam is a bit blocky at the front and rather wide under the boiler so might need a fair bit of work to look like Edward Thomas or Stanhope. 
https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Peter_Sam

They tend to base them on the tv models so expect it to follow those images. 

 

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On 22/01/2021 at 10:10, Hobby said:

There was an article in one of the model railway mags many years ago by, I think, Giles Barnabe, on the L&M transporter wagons and a model of them. It's one of those "I know I have it somewhere but can't find it" articles. If I do I will let you know when it was!

 

Whilst not featuring a model, the 1984 Model Railway Constructor Annual includes drawings and photos of the prototype.

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2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Only issue is the tv Peter Sam is a bit blocky at the front and rather wide under the boiler so might need a fair bit of work to look like Edward Thomas or Stanhope. 
https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Peter_Sam

They tend to base them on the tv models so expect it to follow those images. 

 

Bachmann's general method has been essentially make the actual prototype bar some notable, but easy to rectify with support, areas. So the cylinders and chonky crosshead on Skarloey and the funnel and cab on Rheneas. Rusty is an exception for the same reason as to why the show didn't make his CGI model closer to Midlander, cause Midlander was rebuilt so it was based off the, well, terrible large scale model, same thing with Bachmann except for the CGI model, though they were able to make the chassis accurate considering that hasn't changed on Midlander.
Now Peter Sam is gonna be toss up, more than likely we'll get a repeat of Skarloey and Rheneas, which is ideal, so overall we're looking at accurate dimensions, chassis(minus valve gear), BUT as you said, there's the block under the tank. Now Bachmann can get away with a fair bit but they can't exactly remove something THAT noticeable, and in a way, works for them cause it makes the mechanism easier to design. Really it's just a matter of waiting to see the EP or final prototype, which should hopefully be next month.
Similarly, curious to see if one of the upcoming brake van's in the range is based off TR Brake 5 given what happened with the coaches.

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19 hours ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

I would add on that Bachmann's NG TTTE range offers 2 fairly excellent models in Skarloey and Rheneas. Both pretty accurate to their respective prototypes as is(and even closer with the addition of the Narrow Planet kits), and even Rusty(though far from Midlander) is decent bashing material for a large Ruston-esque diesel. 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I think someone else here mentioned them and there is an 009 layout on the back page of the recent Railway Modeller 'Setrack Plan Special' supplement, which also suggests adapting them.

 

 

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On 26/01/2021 at 17:15, PaulRhB said:

Only issue is the tv Peter Sam is a bit blocky at the front and rather wide under the boiler so might need a fair bit of work to look like Edward Thomas or Stanhope. 
https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Peter_Sam

They tend to base them on the tv models so expect it to follow those images. 

 

 

Yeah it’s bound to be to very close to the tv version, giesl ejector and all.

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5 hours ago, Font T said:

 

Yeah it’s bound to be to very close to the tv version, giesl ejector and all.

Yeah, but otherwise I would expect the dimensions and proportions to mostly match up with Edward Thomas bar a couple suspiciously replicable areas , I mean we'll hopefully find out next month, what with a dedicated TTTE stream by Bachmann on the 18th.

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  • 4 weeks later...
8 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I’m not absolutely sure what the difference is but isn’t that a Brazil? Very interesting though. I’m not sure if it’s any bigger than the NG versions.

 

Yes, you're quite right. It's a Brazil. And it was indeed a standard NG one; probably a result of Kerr Stuart's practice of part-building engines to have in stock for short notice orders and then modifying them to the buyer's specifications.  Another photo here: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-xfmN5HM/

 

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21 minutes ago, papagolfjuliet said:

 

Yes, you're quite right. It's a Brazil. And it was indeed a standard NG one; probably a result of Kerr Stuart's practice of part-building engines to have in stock for short notice orders and then modifying them to the buyer's specifications.  Another photo here: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-xfmN5HM/

 

There was a article in Model Rail magazine No. 283 about the steam locomotives of the London Underground. One of the locos featured was this one. However, the origins of this locomotive are confusing...

 

The following is copied from the article. 

 

One source states that it was brought by the District Railway in 1922 for light shunting. It also suggests that its 1922 works plate might mean it that was an older 'Brazil' that was overhauled by Kerr Stuart prior to its sale. 

 

Another source, however, suggests that the locomotive was ordered by the City and South London Railway and built to tube loading gauge. It was apparently used on the Piccadilly Line extension to Cockfosters.

 

The locomotive was delivered with a full-height cab but by the time it received London Transport livery and its new number (L34), it had a curved cab, presumably for use in the tube tunnels. 

 

It was scrapped circa 1949. 

Edited by 6990WitherslackHall
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On 17/01/2021 at 20:48, 009 micro modeller said:

 

To be honest though, transporter wagons were very rare in the UK. Those that did run (aside from the Leek & Manifold and overseas examples) were more usually of the kind where the transporter is on the larger gauge (e.g. the Padarn Railway). Transshipment from one wagon to another was used on the Glyn Valley.

 

The Welshpool and Llanfair acquired an Austrian transporter wagon in 2008, and a GWR five plank wagon to sit on it in 2016.

 

https://www.wllr.org.uk/news-archive-2002-2008#Rollwagen

 

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/about-us/press-office/national-railway-museum-transfers-ownership-gwr-wagon-welshpool-llanfair

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4 hours ago, Hobby said:

They now use it for their flayer for clearing the undergrowth on the side of the track I believe.

 

Indeed - I was under the impression they never intended to use it as a transporter wagon (as originally built), and as I recall the five plank is for a display about transshipment between SG and NG and is on a length of track (although it may be part of the project to restore and interpret the cattle dock remains in Welshpool, I think they were planning to have some stock displayed there).

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  • 4 months later...
Posted (edited)

Hi again all, its me again and I have a couple more questions, this time related to track layout/design features (009/NG).  First though, a disclaimer.  Please do not assume that because I am asking further questions, that this means that I have actually made any progress on this fantasy (LOL).

 

So, Q1: Concerns 'Diamond Crossings' (and their use in UK narrow gauge).  There is an 009 layout (an iteration of 'Dinas Junction'), for which I have a plan (the same location was also rendered in 16.5 I think as well) and I might be tempted to use it (modified/flipped) for the design I have in mind. In it, for space-saving reasons, the builder utilises a Diamond Crossing.  Now, from the OS mapping, I cannot be sure whether the real location used such a thing, but it does save valuable space (but is a complicated and costly thing  to produce). So; a) Did UK narrow gauge lines generally, make use of such crossings (I have not found any photos, but then my NG resources are not extensive) AND; b) Does anyone make a RTR or kit for such a crossing in 009?

 

Q2: Concerns 'Sector Plates' on the (real) NG and in model form -  by which I mean, a single-tracked 'device' that a locomotive ran onto, to be redirected to another, adjacent track. This is obviously similar to what a set of points does (or even a turntable), just in a much shorter space (especially if there is more than one alternative 'route').  The Corris (I think) intend to use such a system at Corris station, due to space restrictions that did not exist historically.  So; a) Did any UK narrow gauge lines use such a Sector Plate? AND b) Does anyone offer such a thing in 009?  I have seen something by Noch for HO (called a 'Segment Turntable'), but it appears to cost around £175(!!) and Faller appear to do one at around 95EUR, though I suppose you could scratchbuild one at a push.

 

TIA

 

Steve

Edited by steveNCB7754
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