Lapford34102's Workbench - Dapol Class 22 new wheels and pickups

[DanInHisDen]

How do i replace wheels with traction tires with ones that do not have them?

[DCB]

On 12/08/2021 at 23:01, Daniel Gee said:

How do i replace wheels with traction tires with ones that do not have them?

Don't bother, it won't pull the skin off a rice pudding.   The Hattons 14XX is vastly better than the Hornby/Dapol without traction tyres, not just puling power either, like comparing  a Ferrari F50 with a Ford F50..

However if you are determined to do something with the Hornby (My good one  has a brass chassis with a Triang XT 60 motor the other 2 are awful) you need the tyres from the leading wheels not the complete wheels as the centres and Balance weights are different.  It's not a difficult swap drop the wheels out and take one middle wheel off and slip both tyres off inwards and replace with the non grooved leading wheel tyres.  Realigning the wheels is best done after the wheels are refitted sighting through the spokes.   The traction will be abysmal.     Don't tweak the chassis if it is not level, it will snap in half, maybe not the first time its tweaked but it will snap.   I would get a replacement chassis. My plans involve 6 wheel drive with a Nikon Camera lens motor driving the trailing wheels, or if I won the lottery  I'd go for another Hattons one.

BTW the Hornby Saint smokebox door is nice, Nice profile GWR not NER

[DanInHisDen]

On 14/08/2021 at 00:01, DavidCBroad said:

Don't bother, it won't pull the skin off a rice pudding.   The Hattons 14XX is vastly better than the Hornby/Dapol without traction tyres, not just puling power either, like comparing  a Ferrari F50 with a Ford F50..

However if you are determined to do something with the Hornby (My good one  has a brass chassis with a Triang XT 60 motor the other 2 are awful) you need the tyres from the leading wheels not the complete wheels as the centres and Balance weights are different.  It's not a difficult swap drop the wheels out and take one middle wheel off and slip both tyres off inwards and replace with the non grooved leading wheel tyres.  Realigning the wheels is best done after the wheels are refitted sighting through the spokes.   The traction will be abysmal.     Don't tweak the chassis if it is not level, it will snap in half, maybe not the first time its tweaked but it will snap.   I would get a replacement chassis. My plans involve 6 wheel drive with a Nikon Camera lens motor driving the trailing wheels, or if I won the lottery  I'd go for another Hattons one.

BTW the Hornby Saint smokebox door is nice, Nice profile GWR not NER

Thank you!

I brought it for the grand sum of £35.50 from a local model shop, It runs fine but it strugles abit as my room is sloped on one side.

[Captain_Mumbles]

On 07/03/2021 at 04:36, lapford34102 said:

Hi,

A couple of things. Firstly a 3 way in copperclad. During the last lockdown I did a single slip simply to see if I could and thought then that I’d have a go at a 3way.  The advantage of doing it like this is there is no pressure. If it all horribly wrong then no-one else would be the wiser. Use Templot for the template. Really excellent programme except I can’t seem to get my head around it. Can do points on their own but start to put a few into a plan!! It’s certainly me, not the programme and yes,  I have tried the tutorials. Perhaps I need to do it on two screens or perhaps at some future show there’ll be a demo somewhere.

 

 

One of Bachmann’s first run 08’s has been languishing in bits in an ice cream tub at the back of one of the storage boxes so dug it out, checked it was working and pondered what to do with it. I’ve got 3 Hornby ones in green and early blue thought I’d have a go at a weathered faded TOPS one. For what little it’s worth this is my take on doing faded Rail Blue.

Airbrush the shell using your preferred  Rail Blue as if you were doing an ex-works one, when done tip any unused back in the pot and put a small measure of a light neutral colour such white or pale grey in with whats left, add a measure of thinners to get it back to sprayable consistency. You should be looking a a very pale version of blue. Spray to taste but with an 08 there are plenty of panels which you can lighten carefully from the middle out. Here’s a couple of pics to give you an idea of the result.

 

Decalling up and a bit more weathering next. I’ll pop a couple of pics up when this is done.

Thanks for lookinjg

Stu

I love this 08 ! I never liked diseasels but you've got me wondering if i can fit an 08 somewhere.

I know what you mean about templot. Can draw diamonds and crossings like a champion but as soon as I have to break it down into the components to get say, make a large slip (or wide slip for lack of knowing what the real thing is called) I dont seem to get how we end up into the individual pieces and when I do I cant seem to get them to go  how I want them to. One day it will just click I hope.

Love the 14XX BTW. I want one some day to turn into the little LNER crane. Looks like a pretty close thing to start with. The rubber tyres are off putting though.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[lapford34102]

On 12/08/2021 at 23:01, Daniel Gee said:

How do i replace wheels with traction tires with ones that do not have them?

Sorry been busy with family stuff so only just caught up. David's answered this pretty comprehensively which is good as I've never tried re-wheeling one. It might be worth doing a "re-wheel 14XX" search as there seems to be quite a variety of stuff out there. Hatton's 14XX was a bit of a misfire and given it's history unlikely ever getting a re-run. I'm really surprised no-one else has jumped in with another attempt but it'll happen one day. A bit baffled by the smokebox door comment.

My 14XXis stalled as the motor/gearbox I had planned to use is a tad too big and as High Level Kits are now back have ordered something more suitable.

Have been kept busy though. A friend saw the pic of my completed 3 way that I put on a different platform.

 

He got in contact and asked if I would do him one plus a B6 point to go with it for a planned micro layout. Was happy to help on the  basis that it would not come with a 7 year 100,000 mile fix at the roadside in 30 minute warranty and the only thing to change hands would be a few pints. Having done one meant a couple of potential pitfalls avoided so it was comparatively straightforward. Now with their new owner.

 

18 hours ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

I know what you mean about templot

 

It's worth checking to see if Martin is doing any web sessions on using Templot. I'ver not managed to catch any - my fault - but they'd probably be very useful in getting to know the programme. Not sure if it's the Templot thread or website where they're mentioned but worth looking.

Cheers

Stu

[martin_wynne]

7 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

It's worth checking to see if Martin is doing any web sessions on using Templot. I'ver not managed to catch any

@Captain_Mumbles

 

Hi Stu,

 

The recordings are online for later viewing if you want to see them:

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_screen_archive.php

 

It's high time I did another one.

 

Martin.

[Captain_Mumbles]

3 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

@Captain_Mumbles

 

Hi Stu,

 

The recordings are online for later viewing if you want to see them:

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_screen_archive.php

 

It's high time I did another one.

 

Martin.

I mean all that in the good way. It is alllll me and not the program. I am finding I am quite addicted to it.

I guess I know where a lot more hours are going to go tonight.

Love the track work and love hearing that the Beer economy is still going strong.

[lapford34102]

5 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

The recordings are online for later viewing if you want to see them:

Appreciate that Martin, must make time! I'm not a professional track builder, heck I'm not even an amateur so must give credit to Templot and various threads associated with it on here for helping get as far as I have.. 

 

1 hour ago, Captain_Mumbles said:

love hearing that the Beer economy is still going strong

I'll try and squeeze a bacon roll out of the deal as well next time we get together at a show, inflation etc....... :-)

 

Stu

[Captain_Mumbles]

19 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

Appreciate that Martin, must make time! I'm not a professional track builder, heck I'm not even an amateur so must give credit to Templot and various threads associated with it on here for helping get as far as I have.. 

 

I'll try and squeeze a bacon roll out of the deal as well next time we get together at a show, inflation etc....... :-)

 

Stu

Not mention that when you print a template you can just stare at its beauty for five minutes before putting it down.

 

Dont forget inflation also must include coffee surely.

 

Question: What are you using to move the switch blades?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Captain_Mumbles

[lapford34102]

Hi,

A belated update, partly due to a protracted family medical crisis, not covid and thankfully now making a good recovery and partly because the motor gearbox combo I had for the 14xx was simply too big. So I ended up odering a High Level gearbox and motor. The gearbox is excellent and the motor tiny and should have checked the size carefully before ordering. But it's all gone together well in spite of my hamfisted chassis building  skills. With a decent amount of lead in the body running is fine and it seems happy enough with either an autotrailer or a few wagons. Got a small Zimo chip installed and although the speed curve (and wiring!) could do with tweaking runs well across the range.

Progress so far in all it's, in more ways than one, shabby glory.

 

 

 

Still got coal, lamps, crew, etc,etc to do though I have managed to sort installing some NEM pockets.

Thanks for looking.

Stu

[Bulwell Hall]

Nice work Stu.  Now she looks ready to take out the Abbotsbury branch goods!  And would that be 7780 lurking in the background of the bottom photo?

[lapford34102]

Mindreader Gerry :-)  I've got this on my wall. Copy of the A K Walls photo that features in the Abbotsbury Branch book. Not good quality but has pencilled date/location n the back. No idea where it came from but Dad did have a handful of B+W photo's where there might have been some significance.

 

Actually it's 7754, quite why is a mystery as it seems to been a  Wellington loco. However I do have both 7780 + 82. I have a couple of spare bodies and have been working on a  Comet chassis plus a High level one which looks a bit intimidating but I'd like to do it EM.

Just need a 16 ton mineral now. Perhaps a Rumney chassis might have been a better place to start on etched bits....

 

Dad had a high opinion of 7780 and 82. Apparently they were both overhauled at Eastliegh and were something of a revelation when they arrived compared to those done at Swindon.

Cheers

Stu

 

 

 

[Bulwell Hall]

Interesting Stu.  The photo is actually by A. J. Wallis.  Wallis was Borough Engineer for Weymouth and lived in Upwey.  He was an enthusiast who would have been well known to railwaymen around Weymouth in the 1950s and probably knew your dad.  Is it possible that you dad was driving 1403 on the goods and that Wallis sent a copy of the photo to him as a keepsake - that sort of thing was common practice amongst some of the old school enthusiasts?  As an aside Wallis had a nice collection of  name/number plates including a number plate from 21C1 Channel Packet which would be worth a fortune now.  I met him just once around 1970 and he also had a very nice 5" gauge Midland Compound 4-4-0.  He will be long gone by now I should think.

 

Interesting mention of 7780 as well.  She was formerly a Bristol St Philips Marsh engine and was transferred to Weymouth in the mid 1950s.  She was still there when Weymouth shed was transferred to the Southern Region - in 1959? - and survived until 1963 when she was condemned after a shunting accident at Weymouth shed when she came off worse in a collision with a BR Standard 5.  I didn't know she went to Eastleigh for shopping although Eastleigh also did work on the London Transport 57xx panniers so they had quite a bit of experience of them.

 

Gerry

Edited September 21, 2021 by Bulwell Hall

[sb67]

Good to see an update Stu. The loco's looking good, glad it's running ok, have you a layout planned to run it on? Hope you're ok.

Take care.

[Adam]

Looks very nice indeed, Stu. Nice to see a 14xx in black too.

 

Adam

[lapford34102]

On 21/09/2021 at 13:41, Bulwell Hall said:

Is it possible that you dad was driving 1403 on the goods and that Wallis sent a copy of the photo to him as a keepsake -

Hi,

In '56 Dad was most probably still firing, I remember "improvement classes" being mentioned and I must have been a few years older. My mistake with Mr Wallis's name. I don't have any recollection of ever meeting the gent but our paths might have crossed on the Alexander Bridge in the mid 60's if he was still active. I'll have a look at the other photos to see if the writing matches.

On 21/09/2021 at 13:41, Bulwell Hall said:

when she was condemned after a shunting accident at Weymouth shed

I can still remember the name of one of those involved in that but discretion etc........

 

Posted a question in the the appropriate section to see if anyone can confirm if they were shopped at Eastleigh.

 

On 23/09/2021 at 06:09, sb67 said:

The loco's looking good, glad it's running ok, have you a layout planned to run it on? Hope you're ok.

Take care.

It'll potter around on Drewry for the moment, rather more appropriate than some of the stuff I run on it.

 

On 23/09/2021 at 06:57, Adam said:

Looks very nice indeed, Stu. Nice to see a 14xx in black too.

Thanks, it's been good to add another "I've done that" to the list. As for livery  what limited memory I do have of 14xx's they were black so it was a simple choice. GWR livery looks fine  as does lined black but always though BR lined green was a touch too flambouyant for something essentially modest.

 

Hope you are all ok and hopefully meet up again at some point.

Cheers

Stu

 

[lapford34102]

What with Christmas and decorating things been busy but I have got on with the two pannier chassis’s over the past 3 months. The Comet one in OO was pretty straightforward, Gibson wheels and a recycled Mashima/Branchlines gearbox and it runs well even if the pickup arrangement is quite crude. There’s still a fair bit to do cosmetically, sandboxes plus some RTmodels pulls to put with them plus renumbering for which I have a couple possibles, 5781 and 7711, that actually are available etched though there’s always Railtec printed ones. The body really needs stripping back before I do much to it. Originally a split chassis version dating from waaay back, the chassis now long retired and the body stuck in a box for ages, things have moved on.

 

Sorry about the errant wiring :-(

 

The High Level kit is very different, far more detail and more complex but then anyone who’s ever looked at one realises that. It’s EM but I did bottle doing the compensated option. It’s been a steep curve over anything I’ve done before and not always gone well. That’s not a reflection on the kit or it’s comprehensive instructions, more to do with my limited experience/skills and not always figuring out where the instructions were going with some sections. I will though have a whinge about the false boiler bottom which needs to be formed out of a flat sheet, the work bench ending up looking like a prop from a cheap slasher movie, I’ll do something in plastic! It’s sort of running, there’s a tight spot that needs sorting plus the brakegear needs finishing but all things considered I’m content with progress so far.

 

 

Also have Hornby’s new AA15 Toad in bits. The handrails appear to be just pushfit and came off fairly easily, the roof took a little more persuading with a scapel blade. The body is held on by 4 tags and was separated by a flat blade between body and chassis. The intention is to do a vac piped version when I can find the info.

 

Won't be much progress over next few weeks as amongst other things got the Doncaster show coming up but thanks for looking.

Stu

[lapford34102]

I've got Steve, SB67 on here, to thank/blame for this as he did a guide to improving the ancient Hornby OAA and I had a couple laying around and thought they'd be a nice addition for Sheepcroft. You can read about what he did here most of which I simply copied.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/84418-steves-4mm-workbench-lima-class-31/page/6/

 

The body is pretty good externally but let down by a basic underframe and incorrect height.  The buffer slots were filled in and the interior given a new scribed floor after scraping off the ribs and then  some plastic strip to represent the door stanchions and reinforcing strips plus lamp irons on the end. Some bits from the scrap box got made up into replacement air tanks and distributor, not exactly accurate but better than the original. Also some plastic strip was used to represent the missing posts for the brake levers.  The articulated axle boxes  were taken off and the and the mount cut off flush with the top, these were then glued in place with a couple of spacers from 20 thou plastic. Well not actually glued as nothing seems to touch the plastic used for the axle moulding so some hefty dollops of cold weld glue used for joing waste pipes was used and seems to work (so far!) . As the body sits too high to allow for the axlebox articulation the buffers were too low so these were cut off flush with the chassis and new ones added to the body at a more realistic height.

 

To fit in with Sheepcroft when it runs as late 60's/early 70's they were finished in pre-tops livery. This needed non tops data boxes, a period comparatively less well covered by transfer maker. I did have one from an old Appleby sheet but the other was custom made by the ever excellent Railtec  who also did the others I've used.

 

I know Rapido are doing this wagon but these were a cheap win costing a few quid for the decals which were the only bits I had to buy plus I got to do some modelling :-)

Thanks for looking

Stu

 

[lapford34102]

EM’ing a Class 22

There’s a fair bit about assorted ways of converting  the 22 to wider gauges in the thread but sadly any pictures have long gone. They seem to have ranged from re-tyreing the Dapol wheel to simply pulling the stub axles out which is what I originally did . In practice this wasn’t that reliable hence my attempt at another approach.This might also appeal to anyone working in OO as it equally applies to that gauge (but with shorter Axles !)  I’d noted on the Dapol 73 thread that adding extra pickups improved running and did that on one of my OO ED’s and this got me to thinking about a more radical solution for the 22’s.

At EMexpo North I had a chance to discuss potential solutions with Colin on the Gibson stand and  showed him the Dapol axle. After a bit of work with the micrometer he suggested a 3’8” 10 spoke tender wheel. It comes with 3  x  2mm axles, cut-to-length ones for OO and EM and a longer pinpoint. The pinpoint is actually a tad bigger diameter than the other two so suggested I try those first.

They were quite a loose fit but the pinpoint was an excellent force fit so I used those suitable cut to length. Making up the wheelsets was straightforward, gearwheel centred, brass bush and one wheel then the other. I chamfered the ends of the axles slightly and a bit of countersinking on the wheel to ease things. The wheels have a slightly protruding boss which I filed off but not really necessary.

Bogies/pickup mods started with removing the brass wipers which are held in place with some crude looking melted tags which needed digging out – carefully! Once free the pickup wires can be cut and the wipers discarded. The wires which run inside the bogie need to be teased out but take care here, the wire is quite stiff and has shrink wrap in places there I assume to reduce chaffing. Noticed on the green one I’d had to replace some wiring as it had obviously failed. If I’d been awake I’d probably replace it all with new stuff back to the motherboard but there.

The replacement pickups are pretty crude, a bit of copperclad sleeper with springy brass wire soldered to it. I sanded the copper off the back of the sleeper and used superglue to fix it place as this has stood up well on the 73. I did put wheelsets into the bogie temporarily and marked off where the tyre would be as a guide to fixing.

 

Originally the pickups were going to be behind the tyre but this looked a bit suspect so settled on a handlebar shape touching the top of the tyre. They were made overlong, adjusted and then cut to size in place.  The pickup wires can then be reattached and the whole thing tested. Once  happy removed the sideframes and a coat of dirt on all bar the pickup ends disguises them well when the sideframes replaced. Job done!

 

 

 

Bouyed with success I then did the 2nd 22 using a set of gash 3’8” disk wheels that were doing nothing. I’ll probably replace them at some point but the hard works already done and at usual viewing angles not that obvious.

 

D6329 in it's natural habitat, running on Sheepcroft.

 

Hope this has been useful to someone and thanks for looking

Stu

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by lapford34102
Wrong pic!

[sb67]

A nice bit of engineering there Stu, and another photo of Sheepcroft  🙂The loco does look good on there 👍