Brass & whitemetal primer recommendations - for airbrushing

[97xx]

I'm interested in your views on the above.

 

Up until now I have used Railmatch acrylic primer - which appears completely satisfactory, although I'm not experienced enough to judge the longevity/resilience of it.

 

I topcoat with Railmatch acrylics also - again seem to go on well with the airbrush, I get a very good finish, and I'm not likely to move away from those.

 

I suppose my curiosity is how really suitable the Railmatch acrylic primer is for brass/whitemetal - to what extent is it a good 'primer'?

 

In other lives I've used all sorts of etch primers for metal, but none would be particularly suitable for an airbrush without thinning with acetone (usually) and also not sure I really want them etching my airbrush...!

[sjp23480]

I use self etch primer from Halfords: https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/primer/halfords-etch-primer-500ml-370400.html

 

Goes on well, is hard wearing and takes acrylics, enamel and cellulose paints without a problem

[brossard]

I use primer from our equiv. of Halfords.  They have the car stuff suitable for plastic which works for me on plastic and metal.  I like to use the metal primer they have (I suspect similar to that linked) for brass.  However, there wasn't any last time I went in.

 

My topcoat is almost always acrylic.

 

John

[97xx]

Thanks both - are you diluting this down and with what for use in an airbrush?

[brossard]

The primer?  It's a rattle can.

 

If you mean the acrylic topcoat, I mostly brush paint straight out of the bottle.  Acrylic lets you have a good finish.

 

Sometimes I will airbrush, usually for weathering.  For this I decant paint into the cup and add a few drops of water.  I also add a few drops of Paint Retarder to stop the paint drying in the nozzle.

 

After paint I spray on gloss varnish, Testor' GlossCote to be precise.  Transfers go onto a gloss surface better than on matte.  Once the transfers are dry I spray a couple of coats of Testor's DullCote.  This gives a smooth even finish.

 

John

[drgj]

I thought I had asked this before but I can't find it now! I think I must have missed the submit  button.

 

Does the Halfords etch primer mentioned by sjp23480  give a smooth finish? Also on brass could I use masking tape over it to do a two colour livery without pulling the paint off? Does it work on aluminium (Comet coach roof).

 

Thanks

Dave

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

For brass and whitemetal kits I use this;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321337182970

 

Mike.

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, drgj said:

I thought I had asked this before but I can't find it now! I think I must have missed the submit  button.

 

Does the Halfords etch primer mentioned by sjp23480  give a smooth finish? Also on brass could I use masking tape over it to do a two colour livery without pulling the paint off? Does it work on aluminium (Comet coach roof).

 

Thanks

Dave

Coachman (Larry Goddard, formerly of this parish) used it for his (brass) coaches.  I believe it is cellulose based, as the paint dries (the solvent evaporates) he said it was like it "shrunk onto the model".

 

I find it has a smooth finish, but you must be careful to spray on several light coats and don't dwell anywhere.

 

Probably worth getting a can and trying it on scrap etch or white metal and see how you get on?

Steve

[micklner]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

For brass and whitemetal kits I use this;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321337182970

 

Mike.

Cheaper at Halfords .

 

I seem to be the only one who has used Aerosol etching primer on Brass (inclusing the one in the above link), and find it is no better than the normal Halfords Grey primer. I have found no difference in strength of resitance to wear and tear . If you read the description on the above listed etch primer it does'nt mention suitable for Brass.

 

I have yet to find a aerosol etch primer says actually says suitable for Brass thereon. If there is one ? ,I would also like to know please !!.

[brossard]

I mentioned above that I have used "metal" primer.  Whether it etches I don't know.  These paints are intended for cars so not surprising that there is no mention of brass.

 

I think for the purposes of model painting, using metal or plastic primer doesn't make a lot of difference.

 

John

[drgj]

Thanks for the answers to my post.

 

Dave

[97xx]

I've just spotted that RailMatch acrylic 'universal primer' 2506 is "For use with acrylic paints on plastics and whitemetal"

 

This is in fact what I've been using, but I'd never seen the reference to white metal. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by 97xx

[Portchullin Tatty]

I have struggled with primers for a while so i asked my local car body shop; this is what they recommended and I have to say it is the best i have encountered but it does need a couple of days to fully harden.

 

 

[dpgibbons]

Some words of primer wisdom from the experts at Precision Paints here

[michl080]

I have been testing many primers in the last couple of years. I learned that there is no universal "best" primer, it very much depends on the base material. Plastic, white metal, nickel silver are quite simple to handle, brass and resin are not. For the latter, an etch primer is mandatory.

My personal test to check feasibility of a primer is the fingernail scratch test. A good primer cannot be scratched off with a fingernail whatever force you apply. In my experience, this only works with etch primer on brass and resin.

 

Michael

[micklner]

27 minutes ago, michl080 said:

I have been testing many primers in the last couple of years. I learned that there is no universal "best" primer, it very much depends on the base material. Plastic, white metal, nickel silver are quite simple to handle, brass and resin are not. For the latter, an etch primer is mandatory.

My personal test to check feasibility of a primer is the fingernail scratch test. A good primer cannot be scratched off with a fingernail whatever force you apply. In my experience, this only works with etch primer on brass and resin.

 

Michael

Which one ?????

[Torper]

I have always used "rattle can" primers.  I started with the standard Halfords ones which claim to be suitable for "bare metal" and, to be fair, I've always found them perfectly satisfactory.  However, having read about the supposed superiority of etch primers I bought a can of Upol Acid 8 primer which I have found entirely satisfactory on brass. I believe that it gives a slightly smoother and perhaps fractionally thinner coat than the standard Halfords primers did and it appears to adhere well.

 

When that ran out I found that Halfords did their own etch primer, apparently suitable for "all metallic surfaces".  It was considerably cheaper than the the Upol, so I bought a can.  That was not a good move.  I used it to prime a brass coach kit I had built, and then applied a top coat of enamel.  A little later I put on some Tamiya masking tape, I think to help with some lining.  In any event, when I peeled the tape off, some of the paint came with it.  As both top coat and primer had come away, leaving patches of bare metal, I assumed that the new primer was at fault, and I have not used it again.  Other people have had success with Halford's etch primer and I suppose I may not have used it properly or something (though I don't see how) but I'm not going to to risk it again on a kit that has taken me quite a lot of money and a great deal of time to build.

 

So I bit the bullet, paid a bit more money, and bought another can of Upol Acid 8 which has subsequently served me well.  No, it doesn't specifically mention anything about brass, but it does say that it is suitable for "bare metal surfaces" and "difficult substrates".  An online search reveals that a lot of people seem to have used it successfully on brass.  I continue to use the basic Halfords primer on non metal surfaces although on a couple of occasions I have used the Upol on plastic wagon kits and there was no apparent problem.

 

DT

 

 

[michl080]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Which one ?????

I didn't actually mention the product because I live in Germany and what we can get in our shops isn't available in the UK and vice versa. However, I rechecked and noticed that my etch primer is actually a UK product.

 

I am using a "Kent" rattle can etch primer and like it a lot. I have also used the Zero paints 2k etch primer in my airbrush, but the rattle can gives easily a light fine spray where the zero paint brand needs a precisely adjusted viscosity to provide a first class result. Kent isn't easy to get here, so I ordered a rattle can of U-Pol etch #8 for a heavy price here in Germany.

 

Michael

[micklner]

19 minutes ago, michl080 said:

I didn't actually mention the product because I live in Germany and what we can get in our shops isn't available in the UK and vice versa. However, I rechecked and noticed that my etch primer is actually a UK product.

 

I am using a "Kent" rattle can etch primer and like it a lot. I have also used the Zero paints 2k etch primer in my airbrush, but the rattle can gives easily a light fine spray where the zero paint brand needs a precisely adjusted viscosity to provide a first class result. Kent isn't easy to get here, so I ordered a rattle can of U-Pol etch #8 for a heavy price here in Germany.

 

Michael

The only "Kent"  listed in the UK , is a paint supplier not a maker.

 

I am doing a experiment at the moment on primers on clean brass sheet , i will post the result in due course.

[michl080]

4 hours ago, micklner said:

The only "Kent"  listed in the UK , is a paint supplier not a maker.

Are you sure?

It seems to be a European company with various offices, but it is not clear where the actual paint is coming from. The web-sites imprint refers to a UK-based company, so whereever they mix the paint, the headquarter of Kent seems to be in Dunfermline, Fife.

Anyway, I was referring to this product because you have asked for it. It's not important for me where they mix their paint.

 

Michael

[micklner]

This was the only one that come up on a Goggle search

 

https://www.kentrefinishingsupplies.com/webshop/primer/primer-aerosol/

 

 

There is no such item as Kent etch primer it would appear ? I have no idea what you are refering too . A link would be a simple solution .

[michl080]

My mail from earlier today did contain a link embedded in the text. (underlined portion). You could just click on the word "Kent".

 

here it is again:

 

https://www.kenteurope.com/en/nc/product/detail//etch-primer-p20887537be-nl-1/show/

 

Michael

[Anglian]

I use Advanced Paints acid etch primer. It is one of the few that pass the fingernail scratch test Michael has detailed. I have come across a superb German made primer that forms an extremely robust chemical bond with metal but it has 'body' to it for filling surface imperfections and I feel that rules out its use on models.

However, I have come to the conclusion that you must get the metal really throughly clean and totally degreased before painting. Having cleaned the metal surfaces you should only handle the model wearing powder free latex gloves so you don't contaminate the surface. I soak some pieces in vinegar to lightly etch the surface. This combined with acid etch primer gives a very strong bond.

 

I have read that acid primers in spray cans have to be so weak to stop the can itself dissolving. However, this is a bit of a myth, since the acid only starts to etch as it dries. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Anglian

[Torper]

4 hours ago, micklner said:

There is no such item as Kent etch primer it would appear ? I have no idea what you are refering too . A link would be a simple solution .

 There certainly is - https://www.kenteurope.com/en/nc/product/detail//etch-primer-p20887537be-nl-1/show/, though I haven't found it actually for sale in the UK.  I did find it for sale in the Netherlands (https://shop.landreiziger.nl/etch-primer-450ml-aerosol.html), Finland, Poland, Spain, Slovakia and Germany, and another country that I didn't recognise, and then I stopped looking (I found myself at a bit of a loose end this evening).  There appear to be numerous other Kent paint products as well.

 

DT

Edited January 9, 2021 by Torper

[Paul Cram]

It does say they only supply commercial customers