Oliver Springs Industrial Spur - BNSF Switching Layout

[Liam_uk]

Evening all,

 

Just wanted to start sharing my American outline layout.

After looking at N Scale and Then trying to fit a "roundy" HO in the space available I decided the best option would be to go for an Industrial Spur. 

 

 

As you can see from the track plan the layout will come from the staging area into the scenic section, through a few industries to the small exchange/sorting yard.

The layout will then continue round the corner down to the end with a run round at the end. 

 

I only know a few industries which I would like to include (after seeing them on Youtube videos and other layouts). 

 

Any help, advise or ideas would be gratefully received.

As Ive said before I am still relatively new to the American "scene" and mainly like the operation side of the railroad, so dont know if Ive made mistakes or got things wrong. 

 

Today I have laid my first tracks on the layout. I am starting with the yard and working outwards.

 

It is also the first time I have used Cork underlay, cant say I am impressed, but seeing as the railroads seem to be deeply ballasted I thought it would be necessary to create the correct ballast shoulders.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Liam_uk
Adding tags

[rodshaw]

That's a nice bit of space you've got there, plenty of switching potential.

[F-UnitMad]

15 hours ago, Liam_uk said:

It is also the first time I have used Cork underlay, cant say I am impressed, but seeing as the railroads seem to be deeply ballasted I thought it would be necessary to create the correct ballast shoulders.

Main lines are deeply ballasted, but not so  much yards and spurs. I bet most of us modelling US outline Industrial layouts on here don't bother with underlay at all.

 

Anyway, welcome to US Outline!!

Is this HO scale? and what size is it? Looks a decent area to get that sense of space that American scenes have, and that can be difficult to achieve in a UK house!! I'd say try and make your spurs as looooong as possible, even if there are only a few car spots on each one. Remember, it is the amount of car spots you have on a layout that determine it's operating potential, not the amount of industries.

The default Blog of choice to follow is that of Lance Mindheim....

https://lancemindheim.com/category/operations/

and his You Tube videos...

 

[Alcanman]

You certainly have a lot of space to create a convincing modern US industrial spur.

 

Lance Mindheim's books are well worth a look at. In particular '8 Realistic Track Plans for small switching layouts' These plans are not really 'small' to those of us in the UK, as they are designed to fit in a room 12ft x 11ft. The plans are all U-shaped like your plan. The other book by Lance Mindheim is 'How to operate a Modern Era switching layout which includes a lot of info regarding typical industries found on Industrial Spurs. 

 

Welcome to the fascinating world of US switching. 

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Is this HO scale? and what size is it? Looks a decent area to get that sense of space that American scenes have, and that can be difficult to achieve in a UK house!! I'd say try and make your spurs as looooong as possible, even if there are only a few car spots on each one. Remember, it is the amount of car spots you have on a layout that determine it's operating potential, not the amount of industries.

On top of that, do you favour a particular era, location and railroad?

Are you thinking of having trains coming from the fiddle yard/staging to the yard under mainline power, then an industrial railroad switcher taking over?

I would also add, the more modern the era, the more likely that some of the industries may no longer be rail served. Indeed, some older warehouses might even be boarded up and disused. Modelling this can improve the look of the layout immensely.

 

Another road to search out is Mike Confalone's Allagash Railroad, and the "Oxford County" short line which connects to it.

[F-UnitMad]

5 minutes ago, Regularity said:

On top of that, do you favour a particular era, location and railroad?

The Thread Title says BNSF & NS, so I'd assume modern era, & railroads self explanatory

Only the location to fill, but let's face it one Industrial Park looks much like another much of the time.

 

Unless it has palm trees and CSX locos.

 

Then it's in Florida.  

[Alcanman]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

The Thread Title says BNSF & NS, so I'd assume modern era, & railroads self explanatory

Only the location to fill, but let's face it one Industrial Park looks much like another much of the time.

 

Unless it has palm trees and CSX locos.

 

Then it's in Florida.  

Like this one......

[mdvle]

Would add 2 tracks to your yard area - create an interchange between the your main track and another railroad.  Have that small 2 track exchange area fed by a smaller 1 or 2 track fiddle yard.

 

Several options.

 

1. add the interchange to the back/right side of your yard, and have the other railroad exit off scene behind the industries on the lower area (either a hillside or in plain view).
2. add the interchange to front/left side of your yard, and have it cross over the existing line at grade somewhere along the bottom to get to the back side of the fiddle yard
3. same as 2, but instead of crossing over keep it on the inside of the layout and have the tracks at the front of the fiddle yard
4. same as 1, but have the other railroad climb a hill so its smaller 2 track fiddle yard is above your main fiddle yard.  This gradient can be an "excuse" to run 2 locos for a short train of interchange cars.

This all creates additional switching opportunities on layout, as well as now providing 2 ways for cars to get on/off the layout, allowing a greater mixing up of operations.

 

Shouldn't require much in the way of additional space, more perhaps moving some of the curves closer to the edge of the layout.

[DCB]

Looks good, feasible, unlike UK themed railways with big diesels and just a few wagons.  Sort of a never wazza era in the UK.    Maybe model a fictitious short line, good excuse to run a Mogul or American on a railfan trip every once in a while.   It would also make a good  pre 1961 UK BLT-FY layout...

Edited January 7, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[long island jack]

 

 

https://www.thomasklimoski.com/

 

A couple of  people to look at for ideas, as someone has already said ,maybe less industries (depend on period modelled) and more spots at those industries, i think a shortline would also enhance operations, but at the end of the day it's your layout and only you can decide, as Lance Mindheim said" less is more" his books a worth a read too.

[Liam_uk]

18 hours ago, Alcanman said:

You certainly have a lot of space to create a convincing modern US industrial spur.

 

Lance Mindheim's books are well worth a look at. In particular '8 Realistic Track Plans for small switching layouts' These plans are not really 'small' to those of us in the UK, as they are designed to fit in a room 12ft x 11ft. The plans are all U-shaped like your plan. The other book by Lance Mindheim is 'How to operate a Modern Era switching layout which includes a lot of info regarding typical industries found on Industrial Spurs. 

 

Welcome to the fascinating world of US switching. 

 

I will look out for the books, I have seen a few of the videos about Lance Mindheim's layouts and workings

[Liam_uk]

1 hour ago, long island jack said:

 

 

https://www.thomasklimoski.com/

 

A couple of  people to look at for ideas, as someone has already said ,maybe less industries (depend on period modelled) and more spots at those industries, i think a shortline would also enhance operations, but at the end of the day it's your layout and only you can decide, as Lance Mindheim said" less is more" his books a worth a read too.

 

Ive took a few ideas from Thomas's shortline layout. The yard is a direct copy really. 

Think I may have put too many industries instead of thinking about operations and car spotting.

[Liam_uk]

10 hours ago, mdvle said:

Would add 2 tracks to your yard area - create an interchange between the your main track and another railroad.  Have that small 2 track exchange area fed by a smaller 1 or 2 track fiddle yard.

 

Several options.

 

1. add the interchange to the back/right side of your yard, and have the other railroad exit off scene behind the industries on the lower area (either a hillside or in plain view).
2. add the interchange to front/left side of your yard, and have it cross over the existing line at grade somewhere along the bottom to get to the back side of the fiddle yard
3. same as 2, but instead of crossing over keep it on the inside of the layout and have the tracks at the front of the fiddle yard
4. same as 1, but have the other railroad climb a hill so its smaller 2 track fiddle yard is above your main fiddle yard.  This gradient can be an "excuse" to run 2 locos for a short train of interchange cars.

This all creates additional switching opportunities on layout, as well as now providing 2 ways for cars to get on/off the layout, allowing a greater mixing up of operations.

 

Shouldn't require much in the way of additional space, more perhaps moving some of the curves closer to the edge of the layout.

 

Sounds a good suggestion.

I am still new to all this on the American side, I have drawn up 2 different ideas. 

Could you tell me if they would be feasible

 

 

 

Personally I prefer the second one. Maybe even look at slightly raising the NS line going up towards the fiddleyard/staging area.  

 

I am also tempted to have the staging area with scenery and add to the operation by switching the cars ready to come onto the main layout. 

[Liam_uk]

20 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Main lines are deeply ballasted, but not so  much yards and spurs. I bet most of us modelling US outline Industrial layouts on here don't bother with underlay at all.

 

Anyway, welcome to US Outline!!

Is this HO scale? and what size is it?

 

Thank you for the input, it is a horrible thing to use. So much so I took everything up and relaid the track minus underlay.

 

The layout will be in HO scale.

The top and bottom boards are 17ft x 18in and the right board is 11ft (top to bottom) x 22 in.

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, Liam_uk said:

 

Sounds a good suggestion.

I am still new to all this on the American side, I have drawn up 2 different ideas. 

Could you tell me if they would be feasible

 

Not an expert on track layouts, but some general considerations.

 

One, it has to be safe for both railroads to access the common track - so shared access can't be on either ones mainline (though, as with so many things north american, there probably are exceptions)

 

And it needs to work for the railroad crews.

 

Thus if at the end of a line there needs to be a run around capability (that again, can be done safely).

 

So looking at your first one, the NS crew come in and because of the shared double slip there is no safe way to interchange as they would interfere with the BNSF mainline to get onto the interchange track.

 

Your second option theoretically works - there are certainly examples (at least from the past) where interchange was via a simple connecting track between the 2 railroads.  But the BNSF would be pushing any interchange cars, or any cars for their industry, in front of the loco from offscene.  Again, possible, it does happen - some railroads still have the odd caboose around to act as a pushing platform, but from a model layout perspective doesn't seem to offer much in the way of operating.

 

The other alternative for option 2 would be they share a section of the mainline to the yard, and the yard is shared.  Again, possible, though somebody with more knowledge than me could say how likely and if it would be done without signals and instead some other sort of occupancy rules.

 

6 hours ago, Liam_uk said:

 

 

 

Personally I prefer the second one. Maybe even look at slightly raising the NS line going up towards the fiddleyard/staging area.  

 

I am also tempted to have the staging area with scenery and add to the operation by switching the cars ready to come onto the main layout. 

 

[Liam_uk]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Not an expert on track layouts, but some general considerations.

 

One, it has to be safe for both railroads to access the common track - so shared access can't be on either ones mainline (though, as with so many things north american, there probably are exceptions)

 

And it needs to work for the railroad crews.

 

Thus if at the end of a line there needs to be a run around capability (that again, can be done safely).

 

So looking at your first one, the NS crew come in and because of the shared double slip there is no safe way to interchange as they would interfere with the BNSF mainline to get onto the interchange track.

 

Your second option theoretically works - there are certainly examples (at least from the past) where interchange was via a simple connecting track between the 2 railroads.  But the BNSF would be pushing any interchange cars, or any cars for their industry, in front of the loco from offscene.  Again, possible, it does happen - some railroads still have the odd caboose around to act as a pushing platform, but from a model layout perspective doesn't seem to offer much in the way of operating.

 

The other alternative for option 2 would be they share a section of the mainline to the yard, and the yard is shared.  Again, possible, though somebody with more knowledge than me could say how likely and if it would be done without signals and instead some other sort of occupancy rules.

 

 

 

Might have to go "proto freelance" and say from the curve onwards is shared track access but they don't go down each others section from the junction....

[Liam_uk]

Had an hour in the loft today. Managed to get the 2 spurs (think that's right) laid. 

The top track will be to access the loco area with either a team track/rip track spot at the end. Which ever works best

 

 

 

Then added some cars 

 

 

 

I'm thinking of extending the middle road to be 4 car lengths (length of car depending). That would give the yard an 8 car capacity plus 1 spot for the team/rip track...

Edited January 7, 2021 by Liam_uk
Sorting pictures

[Liam_uk]

Here is the next section to go in, the loco spurs. 

 

I also laid out the next section to the staging to get a feel for it.

 

 

 

 

I went with the modified idea of the 2 railroads having their own access to the industrial spur, but each has on industry each to service on their access lines.

 

Again any help or ideas or advice welcomed.

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Liam_uk said:

Again any help or ideas or advice welcomed.

Not really advice as such, & nothing to do with US outline, but slightly concerned by the amount of weight you seem to be adding to those (unmodified?) roof trusses?

 Looks to me like there's also another layout above this one? Or boarding at least. Roof trusses aren't really designed to have extra stuff added to them, and there are some members of RMweb who are in the Building/roofing/lofts game professionally who might have coniptions if they see your last few photos!!

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by F-UnitMad
Spelling!!

[Liam_uk]

11 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Not really advice as such, & nothing to do with US outline, but slightly concerned by the amount of weight you seem to be adding to those (unmodified?) roof trusses?

 Looks to me like there's also another layout above this one? Or boarding at least. Roof trusses aren't really designed to have extra stuff added to them, and there are some members of RMweb who are in the Building/roofing/lofts game professionally who might have coniptions if they see your last few photos!!

 

 

Interesting you say that. I had wondered. 

However when the loft was boarded out etc I asked the questions and they said it should be ok?

I do have brackets onto the wall as well as supports onto the floor as well.

I have used the trusses as supports for the boards, they are also more rigid.

 

I will have to make enquiries to double check......

[Liam_uk]

12 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Not really advice as such, & nothing to do with US outline, but slightly concerned by the amount of weight you seem to be adding to those (unmodified?) roof trusses?

 Looks to me like there's also another layout above this one? Or boarding at least. Roof trusses aren't really designed to have extra stuff added to them, and there are some members of RMweb who are in the Building/roofing/lofts game professionally who might have coniptions if they see your last few photos!!

 

 

I've spoke with the company that did the loft work. 

They said they don't see why it wouldn't be ok.

 

The floor has been frame worked with the wood in the picture and then the floor attached to it. Needing a step from the loft ladder to access the loft. (As you can see just on the left of the pic).

[F-UnitMad]

On 08/01/2021 at 09:00, Liam_uk said:

I've spoke with the company that did the loft work. 

They said they don't see why it wouldn't be ok.

Fair enough

I'm in the loft myself, but mine is an old 1930s type, more open to start with. I had it all properly strengthened, insulated & boarded out professionally, to 'storage' standards. It's not a full loft conversion, & so technically it's not a 'habitable space', so some would say should not be used for a 'train set', but for the amount of time I manage to spend up there it might as well be 'storage'!!!

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by F-UnitMad

[Liam_uk]

On 08/01/2021 at 10:28, F-UnitMad said:

Fair enough

I'm in the loft myself, but mine is an old 1930s type, more open to start with. I had it all properly strengthened, insulated & boarded out professionally, to 'storage' standards. It's not a full loft conversation, & technically it's not a 'habitable space', so some would say should not be used for a 'train set', but for the amount of time I manage to spend up there it might as well be 'storage'!!!

 

 

 

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Better to double check than get into the build and find I need to year it down. 

 

That's half the reason I got the professionals in as they are there for questions....... That and the fact i would know it would be done properly.

[Liam_uk]

Extended the middle spur today to take 4 (what seems to be "average") car lengths.

 

[Liam_uk]

Also tacked down the top curve and sent a few cars round it. All seems ok 

 

The curves will be hidden/blended with grade crossings, trees etc

 

Also got some locos in the loft 

 

The left one is an Anthern Genesis GP50, with factory Tsunami sound and the other loco is a Broadway SD40-2 with Paragon 2 sound. 

 

Both are stunning locos. The quality is great. I'm also blown away by the price, the GP50 being £100 sound fitted and SD40-2 £139 sound fitted.

 

Anyway I mocked up the loco stabling/depot area and used them to make sure the clearances were ok.

 

 

I haven't cut the track to length for these spurs yet