7mm LNWR 30'1" Coaches

[Brassey]

Ver nice loco.  I find gloss black to be the most unforgiving paint.  I am too embarrassed to show mine!

[bluestag]

More progress this afternoon.   I started to assemble the nonfunctional chassis.  

 

These are the two laminations for the solebars, in correct orientation.  

 

 

 

The outer lamination is obviously the one with the spring detail, and the punched out rivets.    The inner lamination has four fold out tabs, the half etches being to the outside, but don't bend them until the two parts are joined!   (The etched lines for the bends are not correctly placed.    If you bend the tab before laminating the two parts, they will not line up correctly.)  

 

I failed to photograph my tinning.    Suffice to say that I tinned both parts where they meet all along the solebars, although I had not expectation of soldering them together along their entire length.   Also the bottom of the hornguides where they meet, and the bottoms of the six spring hangers, which I have found don't join up without persuasion.

 

The inside lamination stands about 9thou above the outer, with the intention that it will fit into the slot etched in the underside of the floor.  

 

But before we wrestle with the soldering to the floor, there is a detailed hornguide with push thru rivets to apply to the front.   The picture is of tinning the front of the outer solebar, soldering the faces is a bit of a challenge.  One wants to align the dratted thing and get it soldered in place.    I fail about one in three, needing to strip the face off and realign it.    I fluxed the joining surfaces generously, and held the face down with the craft knife, while bringing the iron with a blob of wire to the bottom of the hornguide.    With luck a tack is established while still being in alignment.   Then I turn my attention to the top of the face, at the solebar.   Because now the face is not going to swim away.   Again with the flux, genrously applied, and solder on the tip of the iron, one applies the heat at the join of the face of the hornguide and the solebar.    While holding down with the craft knife.    Inspect the bottom of the affair, likely the join is not closed.    More flux, heat, and pressure from the knife.

 

A bit of solder will be on the face of the solebar and hornguide, and I clean this up with the motor tool with a steel wire wheel.    Wear eye protection!

 

 

 

 

 

The front before cleaning up with the motor tool:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The back of the solebar with many tinned areas for soldering to the floor.   The floor already has tinning all along its length.   One judges the overlap of the floor to the solebar, ensuring as best as may be that it is centered.   The solebar is engaged with the slot, and one can feel it going in, and a spot of solder applied to hold it.   Next a check for square, and almost certainly bending it a bit.    Another spot, another check, until six or eight spots are made, securing the solebar to the floor.    One could seam the join, but you will gain no more strength.    Tomorrow I build up the other solebar/hornguide confection and install it.  On the first coach I did not get the solebars centrally spaced on the floor, and the bufferbeam is not parallel to the end of the coach body.   On the third coach just appreciating the issue got me aligned.    We'll see if I can do it again on the fourth coach.

 

 

 

The solebar installed:

 

 

 

The project may soon be delayed: I am waiting for wheels from Slater's.    But I can illustrate the build with the elements of the third coach.

 

Possibly a better angle of the join between floor and solebar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

7 hours ago, Brassey said:

Ver nice loco.  I find gloss black to be the most unforgiving paint.  I am too embarrassed to show mine!

 Thanks.    It was satin black spray paint from the builder's supply.  I think I got crazy lucky.

[bluestag]

The second solebar is installed after an hour's work.   I don't think I'll do anymore this evening.  

 

The tinning for the two layers of the second solebar.    I did not have a photo yesterday.

 

My wheels from Slater's have arrived.   So there need be no pause in the project.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

Had to work again today.    Got in a spot of modelling.   Both solebars are on.   Next are the steps and axleboxes.  

 

A snap of the top step in place, almost impossible to see, as we are seeing it edge on.    It sits just at the bottom of the solebar.    And three axleboxs.   The super glue is refusing to set for the one on the right.    I applied epoxy to the hornguide and axlebox.

 

Separate is the lower step with it's hangers showing.  You can just see some solder where I reinforced the bend of the hanger.

 

 

 

Another angle of the lower footstep.   The notches etched in it embrace the axleboxes.    But they are by no means wide enough.    Or the axleboxes are too low, although I don't think so.    Or the hangers are too short.    Again, I don't think so.  Regardless, much tedious filing in in my future.

 

 

My estimate of how long this was going to take to build now seems a bit optimistic, although I am very far along in the build.    Taking time to photograph the model and write the narrative cuts into actual modelling time!

 

A weekend is ahead of me, and I don't anticipate any serious diversions.  I should have it up on wheels by then.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

A bit more work this evening.    All the axleboxes and steps are in place.    There are tie rods between the hornguides, represented with .9mm wire.  As I mentioned earlier, this was missing from the third Gladiator kit.   I am CERTAIN that David of Gladiator would have made good, but I'm in Burbank, CA, and am used to being a bit remote from my suppliers.    I have lots of wire of various diameters from Eileen's Emporium, so I was able to move ahead.

 

The two layers of the solebars make up a little shelf to secure the wire to and get a good bit of solder on the job.   The front face, with the rivets and spring detail, has little horns sticking out, that the back layer does not.   It is here that one solders the wire.

 

Start with a full length of wire, tin its end, GENEROUSLY tin the land that you will be soldering the wire to, and flux well.    Hold the wire in as good an alignment as you can.   If like me you are right handed (we are working from the inside of the solebar) you will present the tinned end of the wire to the right hornguide, and solder it with a good sized blob of solder.   You won't be able to see the left side of the wire, but do try to get it in place.

 

 

 

Now you want your best nippers.   I have an old Xuron rail cutter that I use a lot.    It still cuts at its extreme end very nicely.   Use your best judgement and cut the wire such that it will fall into the recess provided, and lie on the back of the front of the axleguard, if you see what I mean.    Bend the first joint as needed to get the wire snuggled up nice against the axleguard, and obviously more flux and solder.   Make sure the wire is well against the horn on the axleguard.    Back to the first join, which you will have weakened by moving the wire to line up with the second joint.   More flux, more solder.    My first coach, the composite, was forever breaking these joints with handling.   When I stopped being so cheap with the solder I solved that problem.   The wire supplied in the kit is only JUST  long enough to do all four.   Don't waste any.   You will have a scrap about four mm long.

 

The steps installed, btw:

 

 

 

And the tie rods installed:

 

 

 

Tomorrow, the buffer beams and a start on the inner chassis.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

Wow.    Almost six hours and it seems like I got little done.

 

First up were the bufferbeams.   A rule to observe on every kit before securing or even shaping the bufferbeams is to check the holes for the buffers with the buffers.   I did not on my first loco, the 4' Shunter pictured earlier.   The buffers provided were considerably larger in diameter than the holes etched for the kit.    It was only after the shunter was fully assembled that I attempted to install the buffers and it was very difficult to open the holes without damaging the loco.   How much easier it would have been when the bufferbeams were in the flat.

 

My first three Gladiator coaches came with lost wax cast buffer bodies with turned brass heads.   Only after I was well along on this coach did I look in the fourth to find a set of NMRS buffers.   The Picnic Saloon came with poor quality white metal buffers.    I prefer steel headed sprung buffers, so I ordered up five sets of NMRS buffers.   NMRS makes a wide range of loco, coach and wagon buffers, in finely cast white metal, with steel heads.   I would like them to be softer sprung, but I assume that the proprietor buys hundreds of springs from a spring catalog, and takes what is available that will work.

The buffers were a close fit to the bufferbeams, happily.   Better than being loose.   I was forced to turn some bushings to fit the buffers for my Special Tank.

 

 

 

The two bufferbeams were tinned and soldered together, and a hole was drilled to take the vacuum hose.    The LNWR had the vacuum pipe running down one side of the coach, and the pipe emerged thru the bufferbeam on the right at one end, and the left the other.   But which end was which?    The step end or the brake indicator end?   The Millard Portfolio from the LNWR Society should have had the answer, or so you'd think.  But I could not find a clear photo of the end of any coach that showed the vacuum hose, which rises up and bends over to lie over the coupler.   There are several informative drawings in the back, and one of them showed the pipe coming out to the right of the coupler on the step end.   So that is what I did for the composite.   And the second and third coach.   But while looking for another detail, I found a different drawing showing the pipe coming out on the left for the step end.    Sigh.   There are a few preserved examples, so I suppose the answer is available.   Having started out with one answer, I am going to stick to it.

 

The bufferbeams were separated and the tinning served to solder them to the ends of the floor.    It was more difficult than I remember on the earlier coaches.   It is up to the modeller to get the bufferbeam centered.  I took two tries with the first one and three on the second.   As ever, tack and inspect, staring at the end of the coach to see that the bufferbeam is properly centered. 

 

 

 

The steam heat pipe, on the other hand, crossed from one side to the other and came out of the bufferbeam on the right side, higher than the vacuum pipe and the coupler.    Between the coupler and the vacuum pipe on that end.    The kit provides nice lost wax castings for both hoses.   But the steam heat hoses provided have different height spigots to insert in the bufferbeam.    Probably foolishly, I left off drilling those two holes for later.   I'm sure I'll regret it.

 

Having the buffer beams in place I turned my attention to the wheel carriers.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The wheel carriers:  

 

The Gladiator coaches have a two wheeled pony truck and a four wheeled bogie.  They pivot to follow the track.    The kit provides two 8ba bolts and nuts, which just fit the holes etched in the floor and the carriers.   What I don't understand is how the carriers pivot if one tightens up the bolt and nut.    What is needed is a sholdered bolt so that the carriers are retained and allowed to pivot.    I cut two lengths of 3/16ths tube, which is a good fit in the etched holes, and used an 0-80 bolt and nut.   (Which is small.)    The tubes are about 3mm long, and I like to solder the bolt pointing down and the nut be the bit I remove.   0-80 nuts and bolts JUST  are too large to pass thru the holes etched.   As for what makes sense in England, tube and bolt diameter, I cannot help you.

 

First up I opened up the holes in the carriers to take the bearings.   There is a perfect tool for this:

 

 

 

A large taper reamer.    However, you probably have a tool that will do the job already:

 

 

 

The tang of a large file will serve the trick.

 

The carriers are inside bearing units, so the extended axles of the Slater's wheels need to be sawn off.   Which I do while the wheels are on the axle.    Then  grab the two wheels and twist and pull.   One of the wheels will come off and the other will stay put.   I clean up the cut end of the axle with a file, rounding it off.    To make reassembly easier and to not do any more damage to the plastic of the hub.

 

On this coach the bearings were a loose fit on the axles, and on the previous they were too tight.   Why?   Dunno.  On the last coach I tried a 1/8th inch  parallel reamer, which is the diameter of the axle.    But that did not do the trick, and I needed to drill them out with the number drill just a bit larger.   1/8" inch is 125thou, yes?   A #30 bit is 128 thou.   I don't remember if that did the trick.    The next up is a #29, at 136thou.  That HAS to be large enough!

 

Clean the swarf off the carrier at the hole that the reamer opened out, in order that the bearing have a chance to lie flat.   Do try to get them flat to the carrier.    I missed it on two of them.   One I reheated and got to set down correctly.   The second one just needed a slight twist in the carrier to get the axle spinning smoothly.

 

The etched carriers and the bearings are JUST  right; they are just fractionally narrower that the back to back of the Slater's wheels, and if you get the bearings opened up just so, and mounted on the carrier correctly, the wheels spin very freely.

 

The pony truck carrier:

 

 

 

The sides have been folded up, checked carefully with the square, and the etched line just filled with solder.    Don't make a big spot of solder here; the brakes fit against the floor and wraps around the side holding the bearing.   The recess on the right takes the holder for the gas tanks.      The little tab with the slot is part of the erroneous steering mechanism that I don't use, but rather replace.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

Here are both carries, finished except for brakes and gas tanks.

 

 

 

The tab in the 4 wheel truck is the other end of the erroneous steering.   It should be in line with the middle axle, otherwise the amount of steering of one end axle will be different from the other end.   I use a bit of etch to make a new pivot.

 

 

 

Again testing the range of the camera in my phone.    The hole is opened up vertically, in order that the rod soldered to the pony, (see above) steers but does not interfere with vertical movement from one unit to the other.

 

The suspension pivots, which the instructions of the kit do not mention.    Instead a series of discs are dotted across the frets, to shim up the coach.   My hope is to control and encourage the wheels following the track.    The pony is on the left,  the bogie on the right:

 

 

 

Obviously the pony tilts side to side, and the bogie front to back.  The mid point between the axle on the right and the center is pretty obvious, but it is also the placement of the tap supporting the top step.    Hopefully there will always be five wheels on the track.  The rod is 3/64", about 1.15mm.   Possibly just tack it in until one is able to determine the height of the coach; see if the buffers line up.   I'm not installing the buffers until after painting, I think...

 

In addition to this lot, I managed to loose a detail part of the brakes, and glued up the others, leaving them to cure overnight.   Tomorrow the tale of how they fit, and the coach's first  time on track with the other three.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The tale of the brakes:  The kit includes small brake shoe etches to layer onto the larger etch which includes the hangers.   I managed to lose one and of course there are only eight, enough to finish the coach.    The same thing happened on the third coach.   A bit aggravating.  I was soldering it in place and it pinged away.   I epoxied the rest.

 

The brake hangers with shoes glued on:

 

 

 

I  the holes for the stretcher bars with a drill while the etches were in the flat, but failed to check against the .7mm wire provided, and had to broach the holes open a bit.   One of the shoes came adrift, and there was a delay while more 5 minute epoxy cured and the component drilled and broached.   Be careful how you bend these.   Get it wrong and the shoes will be on the inside, where they will do little to create the impression of a bulky brake shoe.

 

The hangers and shoes shaped and soldered in position.   Awaiting wheels.

 

 

 

The carries complete with stretcher bars and gas tanks in place.   Blue tack used to keep the tanks level.    

 

 

 

Note there are no brakes on the middle axle.   On the prototype the middle axle moved side to side.    Study the spring hangers against those at the ends to appreciate this.   Wheeled up.  The shoes and hangers get bent to a close and concentric alignment,  Be aware that they don't touch, consider the side play (which is minimal).   A little solder was used to hold the stretcher to the shoes, despite the epoxy, which seemed unbothered.   A SMALL drop of flux on the join point, keeping it off the wheels.   And a tiny blob of solder on the iron applied.   The gas tanks are 1/4" plastic tube.   The kit included some clear plastic rod that I could have used as well, but I used the plastic tube on the earlier coaches, so just stayed with it.    They are about 28mm long and protrude from the brackets by about 3mm.

 

Next I must consider the castings for the under frame detail, with an eye as to where they should be applied, and the practicality of doing so.    The carriers must be allowed to slew side to side.   I'm not going to install details that are almost invisible if they conflict with the running of the coach.

 

Next a photo of four coaches on the track.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

And then there were four:

 

 

 

From left to right, in the order built: the composite, the Picnic Saloon, the third, and the other third.   Hard to distinguish those two...

 

And the underside, showing the extent of the steering.    Remember that the two trucks are linked.   Without that the pony would just flap around.

 

 

 

Remaining unbuilt is the brake third..    I built three coaches in about eight weeks, I'm more than ready for a change of subject.    It will certainly make a nice rake once finished and painted.    (Shiver)  Add a horsebox just to break up the line a bit, and boy that will be some fun!

 

I need a loco to pull them.    Right now I have a 4' shunter, painted.  And a Special Tank, another shunter, from an Eric Underhill kit, off the market for decades.   I won it for reasonable money on ebay and built it immediately..    I have the chassis to a C class 0-8-0, which runs.   The loco is stalled because I have disagreements with it.   Unstarted are a coal tank and a cauliflower.   Just now I am inclined to build the coal tank because it will go together faster.

 

For the coaches, I need to grasp the nettle and build the brake indicators for the end opposite the steps.    Nothing is provided in the kit for this.    I think some small bits of plastic and some brass wire are the ingredients.   The first one will of course be the hard one.   If I can bull thru that I'll be able to do the others.

 

But they are just about ready for painting.  Which is a whole black art for me.   I painted the 4' Shunter with a spray can from the hardware store, and am astonished at how well it turned out.    But for these I need to use my new air brush.   I could paint them in lacquer.   Which is fast drying, including in the brush.   Tricky to clean out, I suspect.  But it gives a fine finish.   I wish I could get cellulose, but it is banned across the US.   I have also bought a good quality bow pen that in the right hands can draw remarkably fine lines.   I need something to practice on.    I have some Ratio 4mm coaches, I may sacrifice one or two of them.

 

This has been fun but I don't know that I will have any further work to report anytime soon.  I hope you are inspired to build a kit.    Just a note, I have moaned a bit about the kit, but that does not reflect on the manufacturer.   David has been very responsive.    I bought the 4' shunter many years ago, and delayed building it.   In the mean time the owner of Gladiator retired.   Thankfully David has stepped up to keep the product coming.   He personally cast a replacement dome for the one that did not have a complete skirt, despite the fact that I had not bought it from him, but rather his predecessor.

 

One chooses a railway or two to build, and unless it is the GWR one is going to have limited choices.  I settled on the LNWR.   Gladiator is the only source of 30' 1" coaches.    I am just grateful that someone is making them.   Oddly, there are three choices in coal tanks, and two in coal engines, but no other duplicates exist that I know of.  One must accept the realities as they exist and forge on.   For instance, I'd like to have a North Staffordshire passenger train.    There is only an 0-4-4T available as a kit, and a body for a steam rail motor.   No passenger cars in 7mm that I know of.   One cannot have everything and accepting that is the path of wisdom.

 

It took me eleven days to build this one.    I predicted ten.    Not bad as these things go.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[Brassey]

10 hours ago, bluestag said:

One chooses a railway or two to build, and unless it is the GWR one is going to have limited choices.

 

Your build is impressive and quick compared to my efforts.

 

I model the LNWR/GWR joint line but pre-grouping GWR is also still a challenge.  The LNWR used many standard features whereas the GWR employed a myriad of alterations in boilers, livery etc.

 

I happen to live quite close to what was the joint line in Cheshire between Chester and Manchester but happen to model a station just in Herefordshire about 100 miles down the A49. 

[bluestag]

11 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

Your build is impressive and quick compared to my efforts.

Thanks.   I have NEVER built so quickly.  Deadlines do focus the mind.

[bluestag]

First foray into actual action.    Railed up the four coaches and pushed them with the special tank.   Turns out the body of the special tank is hot to the right rail.   Not good.    And the newest coach is hot to the opposite rail, when turned just so.

 

The loco is going to be more trouble to sort out.    I can see straight off that the coach has a brake shoe touching a flange.    I will need to remove the stretcher, which will not be easy with the wheels in place, bend the brake hanger and install a new stretcher.

 

Oh well.    The other three all seem to be neutral.

Edited January 20, 2021 by bluestag

[Coal Tank]

Hi im putting a Cauliflower together at the moment. Its an old modelers World kit. Its under S7 LNWR 

[bluestag]

My friend John who has a very nice GWR branch terminus to branch terminus layout in his garage tells me that all his 6 wheeled coaches are pigs that won't stay on the track.   He is impressed that mine pull and push without fear or favor on his railway.

 

But now I have been building my railway in my garage, and they are a little finicky going thru the Peco pointwork.    Right now I can pull them and push them thru the suspect back to back curved turnouts without fail, but have had them pick at the points in the past.    And wheels seem to climb up the rails and derail.     Frustrating.    Mustn't let John know!

 

But for now they are holding the track.     I hold my breath.    The are the only coaching stock that I currently have, although a rake of four 42' bogie coaches are budgeted for.

[bluestag]

Updates coming soon.    After 2 1/2 years the chorus of boos from my operating club to brass coaches is deafening.    As if they are not just a bunch of checkbook modellers.   I am finishing up the assembly to the point that I can paint them, and then heaven help me, I'll be painting them.   And sometime in the future, I'll be trying lining with a very nice bow pen I have.   Gulp.

Edited January 14 by bluestag
s

[bluestag]

Some of yesterday's progress:  Buffer stocks, vacuum and steam hoses.   This one is missing the coupler pocket plate.   The buffer beam was wood, and the pocket was reinforced with steel.  In the model they are tiny, and one pinged away from me.   They are 18thou thick, which is a real difference.   I run Dinghams, and they are sensitive to buffer depth compared to the projection of the hook.   The end of this coach may need to have the couplers set a little back, or better yet, I could make some sort of spacer to replace the lost etching.

 

The buffers are a problem.   The kits come with either lost wax cast buffer stocks, with turned brass heads, not sprung, or Ivertrain's WM sprung with steel heads.   Both have issues.   The brass stocks do not, of course have a hole all the way thru them.   The hole is blind in the middle.   I successfully drilled seven, but had the drill break thru the step on two.   I found I could not drill the stocks by hand, and used my Dremel motor tool.    I also found the bits dulled quickly cutting the hard cast brass, which I am convinced is a different alloy than that used for sheet brass such as our etchings are cut from.   That has a small amount of lead included to keep the drilling easy.   I have some spare Ivertrain buffers, and will be using them going forward.  Ivertrains make a wide range of buffers in 7mm.   They likely have what you need, or are included in your kit.

 

The Ivertrain sprung buffers are stiffly sprung, not the soft springing that I believe is preferred when running hook and loop.    But I have sworn that stuff off.    For Dinghams, fixed or stiffly sprung buffers are indicated, as when propelling, one does not want the loops to run up against the back to the hooks, or there abouts. 

 

The vacuum and steam hoses need little comment, except that on the LNWR coaches here, the vacuum hose comes out from the side of the coupler, bends up, and runs diagonally to bend again and run vertically.    The pipe/hose provided has one 90 degree bend to take it thru the buffer beam.   I used a small torch to heat the casting right about where the second bend (taking it vertical) is, to red hot, then quenched.   The casting might be malleable enough as cast, but softening the metal this way assures that when bent, the casting will not fracture.    I prefer cast brass here, as I don't fancy soldering WM.   I'll do it, but I don't like it.   Brass, soldered on, is near indestructible.

Edited January 15 by bluestag

[bluestag]

A short break while I await parts from Dave at Gladiator.   In the time I'm down I'm learning to airbrush.