7mm LNWR 30'1" Coaches

[bluestag]

With your permission I propose to describe the building of some LNWR 30'1" Six Wheelers.   I should perhaps admit that I am weak for Six Wheelers, have been since my days playing with Marklin HO.

 

This will not be a description of every detail possible applied to the coaches.   You will not see exquisitely detailed under frame detail that one can only appreciate by turning the coach over.   I have too many kits to build to focus on such detail.   If that is your thing, that's fine, but you won't see it here.

 

Rather I'll discuss the difficulties that I ran across and the steps necessary to build them that are not covered in the instructions.  Hopefully some of this will apply to other rolling stock.

 

My current collection of these coaches number five.  Four are Gladiator kits, formally Northstar.  The fifth is an Acme models Family Picnic Saloon.   I had not been aware that Acme ever existed or that it produced these coaches.   I set my mind on winning the ebay auction for this coach, happily I did not have to pay silly money for it.

 

I built my Gladiator composite coach about a year ago, then turned my attentions to some locos.   When I received the Picnic Saloon about six weeks ago I got stuck right in.   It was obvious to me that it is a blow up of the David Geen/microrail/Alan Gibson coaches in 4mm that were for a time the standard LNWR coach.   I have built a few of these 4mm coaches before switching to 7mm a few years back.   Nowadays London Road Models make much better 4mm examples of the same diagrams.  I just now am finishing up an all third Gladiator coach, making three examples, see the photo.  I intend to write a blow by blow account of building my fourth kit, again an all third.   (All thirds were far and away the most numerous diagram of these coaches built.)   With luck and no interruptions I could probably build it in seven build sessions.  Possibly ten days.   I do however expect a few days of work getting in the way (I'm semi-retired).   Hopefully I'll be able find a few elements that will be useful to others in their builds.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

Oh, regarding that photo: on the left is the latest, a Gladiator all third, in the middle is the Acme Family Picnic Saloon, recently built, and on the right is the Gladiator composite, built over a year ago.    And a bit tarnished from handling and time.    Happily I have a modeling friend who owns a grit blaster that will be employed immediately before priming.

[bluestag]

Where we start: the sides.

 

At the top are the ventilators, to the right of those, etched commode handles that will not be used, the kit provides very nice lost wax castings.   To the right of those are ten lower door hinges.   Exactly how many you need.   They are tiny and want to ping around as you attempt to install them.   Happily they COULD  be scratch built with some fret material.   I have not needed to do so yet!   And to the right of them are four brackets that fit to the bufferbeams (very late in the build) securing the body at that point, they get two rivets each.   Details later.    Between the ventilators and and the side is an underlay for the windows, featuring the droplights.   This is remarkably easy to install, and sets all the droplights correctly.   Additionally it is 36thou shorter than the sides, and provide a ledge to set the ends into.  (The material is 18thou thick). 

 

To the right we see the end without steps.   It should feature emergency brake piping and indicators, but no provision is made by the kit.    The Acme kit has etched rectangular holes at the sides of the sides (if you take my meaning).   But none by Gladiator.   I'll be trying to scratchbuild this detail on the ends of the coaches, later on.

 

The second etch has two thin strips that solder to the roof edge.    Oddly, the composite had two sets of this, and provided the needed parts for the Picnic Saloon's roof.   Which was a scratchbuild.    More on this later.  To the right more commode handles and the steps for the step end.   These also get rivets pushed thru.  Fitting them is ticklish to say the least.   The David Geen designed Acme kit has steps that push thru slots in the end, and are easily soldered to the inside.   Not so the Northstar design.   These get riveted, as I say, and have a SMALL flange bent and then stuck somehow to the ends.   On the composite that I built over a year ago, I succeeded in soldering one of the steps, and quickly gave up on that, as I was going to flood the area with solder.    I superglued the other steps on.   Which is frustrating on its own, as the glue is not so very instant.    Not the medium consistency stuff that I was using.  The steps like to swim around on top of the glue, demanding that you hold them steady.    My old hands are not THAT steady.    I got one of the steps slightly cockeyed, but the glue seems to make a very strong connection to a very small area.    On the composite I applied the steps after assembling the body.   On the third I took advantage of working in the flat and applied the steps to the end before assembling to the floor.  

 

I have to say that if you do not have a power tool for drilling the various holes, you will probably find the build frustrating.    For the all thirds the roof alone needs nineteen holes drilled thru the half etched divots provided.   In three different diameters.    And the sides need many holes opened out.    The door handles are also lost wax castings, and their spigots are not circular.    One needs a caliper to measure these spigots.   Mine is digital, measures in thousands of an inch, fractional inches and millimeters.  It cost me about $35.   Maybe 30 pounds.   If you don't have one, you are hobbling yourself.  

 

Now the first difficult bit, to my mind: rolling the tumbleholme.   I learned to roll sheet brass to a curve by placing it on a spongy surface and rolling a long rod along the curve you are trying  to create.   In 4mm using 12 thou sheet this is possible.   I could not get a start on the curve in 18thou metal.   The instructions are pretty breezy about this.   If I annealed the metal I imagine that it would curve, but in the hard state it would not respond.   I don't like annealing such a large area of the kit for fear of wrinkling the metal.   I could only get it done using a brass rod about 3/8ths in diameter.  I pressed the sides up to my abdomen and applied the rod as close to the bottom of the side, and attempted to bend it with little enough result.   I used my thumbs to bend it a bit along the bottom (it is essential to clean the mounting tabs away completely, and to "break" the edge a bit to not have any sharp edges or protrusions to rip your flesh on) and can only say that persistence will result in a rolled tumbleholme.    The end provides a template to bend toward, checking all along the length of the side for a consistent roll that matches the end correctly.

 

Eventually one is ready to solder in the droplight strip.     To do this I tin three or four spots top and bottom of where the underlay meets the sides.    On the composite I attempted to spot solder the underlay from the front so that I could have a clear view of how much reveal there is around the droplights.   But for the all third I worked from the back and had good results.    I aligned the strip such that I could see the openings for the windows in both the strip and sides lined up.   This automatically places the strip 18thou from both ends, creating the ledge to solder the ends to.   I confirmed the arrangement after the first spot, and on the third had to do one twice, not too painful.   Once I confirmed the alignment I spotted the underlay in the three or four spots along the line.  There is no need to seam the joint.   

 

And now I needed to drill out the holes for the door knobs and the commode handles, one of which goes thru the underlay.   I have a small precision drill press with a very nice speed control and good feel of the bit as it cuts thru the metal.   A hand held motor tool will not have anything like the same finesse, but will still be a lot less work than drilling the holes with a pinchuck.   It is a tool worth having if you are seriously kit building.   My motor tool does not have an adjustable chuck, but that is really only because I don't need it.   When chucking small drills into a tool I make a point of leaving as little of the bit exposed as practical, this reduces the tendency for the small bit to wander around on the surface of the work.

 

The door hinges are also due about this time.    As I say, take care, then tend to ping around as you try to get them thru their slots and soldered.   Several times the hinge will freeze in place slightly out of plumb.   This can be corrected by bending them from the front to align them correctly.    I find the hinges in the kit stand out a bit, and I file them back.   The two upper hinges also should protrude slightly, but that would be a massive fiddle, and they would conflict with lining the sides, so I certainly would not attempt to include them.

 

Tomorrow I hope to have photos of the new sides with Tumbleholme rolled, and a start on joining the floor to the ends and sides.    Plenty of solder to be applied then!

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

I got a few more minutes of modelling in today.   I rolled the tumbleholmes with reasonable success.

 

First I rolled one with the 3/8" rod, and got some wrinkles, not disastrous, but notable.  I used a 5/8" rod for the second side, and had a smoother roll.    All the time comparing to an end to get the shape correct.    The end fits inside the sides.

 

A note about the Gladiator coaches.   The chassis does not separate from the body, not as designed.   The floor has ends that turn up and solder to the ends of the body, and the sides just barely overlap the floor,     I tack the floor to the sides with three or four spots of solder.    It is the ends that get seam soldered.   One tack on the end to tie it to the floor and a close inspection to assure that it is flush along the bottom and is centered on the floor.    The tumbleholme of course begins at the floor, so the ends should not extend beyond the floor on either side.   The kit is accurate here, in my experience, with the width of the floor and the bottom of the end being the same.

 

The coach not separating at the floor means that the glazing must be fixed, hopefully never to come adrift, before the roof is irrevocably glued to the body.   

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

Got a little work on one of the sides done.    More photos!

 

 

This is an interior view of the third coach built, the all third.   Photograph to illustrate the spot soldering of the sides to the window underlay, and the spots of solder between the floor and the sides.    Also visible are all the seam soldering of the end to the floor uprights, the sides and the window underlay.

 

 

The current coach.   Tinning the components prior to spot soldering.     This is the inside of the window underlay, if I tinned the other side there likely would be solder running onto the face of the droplights.    Both components have been thoroughly scrubbed with Ajax abrasive powder.   Being freshly out of the box, having been wrapped in acid free tissue, the brass is very receptive to solder, as long as the grease from my fingers is washed away.

 

Not shown: the holes for the upper end of the commode handles pass thru the window units.   I used my calipers to confirm that the legs of the handles, (pictured)

 

 

are .7mm, or there abouts.   The holes at the ends of the sides and window underlays were opened out to .7mm and short lengths of wire were inserted, thus registering the sides and window underlay.   One tack between the two and I inspected the side from the front.    And I used the end of the caliper to determine that the windows were centered left to right on the sides.    The rebates formed for the ends measured at .019 inches, where the ends are .018 inches.

 

A view of the side with the tinning for the floor and the ends hopefully visible.

 

 

Next up: fitting the steps to the end of the coach, then folding the floor up and soldering on the ends.

[bluestag]

Got a bit more in before dinner.    The steps on the end are a challenge.    The Acme (David Geen) kit shines here when the steps push thru slots and are soldered on the inside.    The Gladiator (Northstar) steps must be riveted and bent thru 90 degrees.   That bend is hard as the bracket is so tiny.    And one is concerned about the strength of the joint.    I dare say that there are modellers capable of soldering the steps into place, but I am not among them.

 

Speaking of rivets, my rivet press:

 

 

Sorry the image is upside down.   It is perhaps over kill for the project, but the die does form nice round rivets.    There are cheaper tools that get the job done.    London Road Models has a simple gravity driven punch.   

 

The steps riveted but still on the etch:

 

 

The end thoroughly cleaned, with a fiberglass brush.   I want the superglue to have as much chance of grabbing the metal as possible.    The slight tarnish on the metal is not enough to prevent soldering, using a good flux, but I am not wild about superglue, despite the fact the steps on the composite built over a year ago are hanging on.

 

I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT GETTING A SHARP 90 DEGREE BEND IS BOTH ESSENTIAL AND DIFFICULT.   PERSIST.  LOOK OUT THAT THE STEP NOT PING AWAY TO NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN.

 

 

 

And the steps in place:

 

 

It took more than a single application to get many of the steps in place and secure.   But they do not seem to be loose.

 

I tinned the backside in preparation for assembly tomorrow.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by bluestag

[bluestag]

A diversion at this point: while the ends are still loose, check the roll of the roof.    Gladiator rolls the roof in a rolling mill, which is a good thing, as the roof is 18thou thick and as I wrote earlier, nearly impossible to roll smoothly at home.   However, on the third coach, the roof was very wrong.    The ends were just about right compared to ends of the coach, but the middle was nearly flat.    How that came to be I don't know, but it took a fair bit of persuasion with thumbs and fingers to get it to match the arc of the end.    This is a particular moment in which to assure that the etching tabs are truly gone, and round off the edge of the roof with a small file, draw filing it.    I did, and I still cut myself on it, not badly but it could have been worse.

[bluestag]

The roof for the current kit was also not consistent in its arc.   About 30 minutes of bending and persuading and comparing to an end have produced a roof that is very close, almost perfect at the ends and only slightly out at other points.    At some point I need to stop.   The roof will be a flat grey.    The paint shop painted the roofs white, but the cleaners did not clear the soot from the roofs.    So there should be no reflections to reveal the slight flaws.    I can't see any in the shiny brass, the roof is OK.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by bluestag
Spelling

[bluestag]

 

Now some serious progress.  The sides and ends are irrevocably soldered to the floor.  The floor is a lynchpin of the kit.

 

The top of the floor.   The half etched lines at the ends are to be folded up 90 degrees.   The discs with holes in them are shims to get the coach to ride at the correct height.     The two holes are 3/32", or 2.4mm, the diameter of a 8 ba screw.   The inside bearing chassis is retained by these and pivots on them.   More later.   You will need to solder nuts or bolts there.

 

 

 

The underside of the floor.   The longitudinal half etch slots receive the solebars.   They will be tinned along their length on the inside, trying to not get solder in the slots, in preparation for soldering in the solebars.

 

 

 

The floor with its ends folded up.   The tinning to solder to the ends is visible, as is the solder run into the half etched line that is the bend.   Obviously AFTER bending, and checking, and bending, and checking.  These MUST be square.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

A tool you just about must have: 

 

 

 

Essential for folding up the ends of the floor.

 

And an end tacked to the floor:

 

 

 

 

After which a close inspection of the end meeting the floor.    The bottom edge of the end is flush with the bottom of the floor and there is no overlap of the end at the floor.    Next one starts at the left and seams the floor to the end.   Repeat at the other end.

 

One side was first spot soldered and inspected to see that it was correct left to right, meeting the two ends correctly without overlapping on either end.    This is my third coach and I got it right the first time.   I'm sure I needed more than one bite at the apple for the composite.   This picture has all the solder joins made up.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The other side is installed, with much juggling, and we have a five sided box.   The plywood is scorched by holding the two parts together and applying hot solder.  There was much pressing of the parts together to close the joins, and swift application of the solder loaded iron.

 

 

 

All told the assembly took about 90 minutes, which was very satisfying.    The coach is about 20% complete.

 

I should have mentioned that both ends had distinct bows in them.    These needed straightening to build a square coach, of course.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

A little more detailing of the body before turning to the roof, which is a surprisingly complex bit of work.

 

The end handrails:    Start at the step end because the coach will stand up on the other end, but not the steps.    The step end handrail is complex, and I don't know if mine are quite correct.  I am, however, trying to make them consistent from one coach to the other.   With limited success.   The handrails on the current coach are not perfect mirror images of each other, but from two feet away they look very good.

 

 

 

The handrail is held close to the join with a strong clip.  That is a doubled up scrap of a business card.   It is my standard gauge to set the rails to.  To my eye it looks correct.

 

 

 

A test of the limits of depth of field when zoomed very close in on my phone.   Both handrails in place.

 

The other end has simple u shaped handles on either side.   I have done a few, so I'm usually getting them right first time.   The brass wire provided is just soft enough to tolerate straightening of an errant bend and rebending, and I've done it.   I tried this time and for the first time the wire broke.

 

The top leg of the handles protrude to where the glazing will fit.   I deliberately made them quite short so that they barely enter the body.   The lower leg is clear of the glazing and I make them a bit longer to give me plenty of material to solder to.

 

Speaking of the wire, this kit, unlike the first two Gladiators, is missing a bit of wire.   I was provided three 10" lengths of .7mm wire.  The roof will consume two of these.   The chassis requires 10" of .9mm wire.  These things will happen.    I keep plenty of wire from Eileen's Emporium on hand, so I'll not be troubled.  

 

You may have noted that I have not yet applied the door handles or commode handles.   These were polished brass on the prototype, and will be applied after the painting and glazing.    The upper leg of the commode handle passes thru glazing.   I'm not looking forward to it.   It promises to be very tedious to set them up on five coaches.   But then so will lining be.   If I ever get to it.    In the meantime measure the spigots or legs of your door handles and commode handles and drill the sides to accept them.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The instructions advise creating from etch scrap two arched "lands" to secure the roof to, and a mid coach cross brace to help keep the sides straight.    This is a crucial step and I endorse it.   There is a likely candidate from the margin between a side and its window underlay.

 

For the end with the steps, with a recess to clear the ends of the handrails.  The length is finely adjusted with a file until it JUST fits.   And two pieces installed at the other end and the mid point of the coach.    Ensure that the middle brace does not conflict with future interior components.  The kit provides very nice benches to be cut by the modeller.   A shame to not use them!

 

 

 

The center brace has two legs turned down and soldered in, for a strong joint.   What you cannot see from this angle is that I made it a bit long, and rather than take it out and adjust it, I just bent the brace up a bit, until the sides were straight.   Do put a long straight edge against the sides, mine needed slight straightening after the brace when in.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The 2nd half of the day was spent on the roof.   As I said earlier, get the arch  of the roof consistent.   My third coach was well out of shape, this one was not as bad, but still needed half an hour of shaping.   This is work that I accept as appropriate in a kit.

 

There are edging strips to the roof to be soldered on.    They have a half etch slot in them, that the roof should engage.  First up is to tin the edging all along its length.  It is flimsy, and is attached to the fret at the ends.  Why do designers use so many tabs?  These must be cut as if by a guillotine.   To stroke a knife across them is to assure that they will be bent, which we don't want.  The other six tabs can be cut with strokes of your Stanley knife without fear.   At this point I don't clean off the remnants of the tab, because again I'd be sure to bend the strip.  One also tins the underside of the roof.

 

 

 

The edging strip is not more than half a millimeter longer than the roof.  Take care to start right, in order to not run out at the other end.   I've come close a few times.   As you would expect, one starts at one end and works down the length.   The strip will buckle with the slightest encouragement, which you will have learned as you tin it.

 

Next up is to drill holes.   Hopefully you have a tool to measure the spigots on the roof details: lamp tops and ventilators.   Use it to determine the size of the drill bit to use.    I have all the numbered drills, from one down to eighty, in two indexes.    I can usually get a bit that is a close fit to my needs.   The index of drills from one down to 60 was not cheap, but I'd not be without it.

 

If you are working with a pin chuck all I can say is patience is a virtue.   Having a drill press is not any guarantee of success, how ever.   On the third coach my attention wandered and I mis-drilled the hole for one of the lamp tops.   And I did it again on the current coach!  The only solution is to solder in a brass plug before you start to mount the lamp tops and ventilators,  and file it back until it disappears.

 

On the composite I soldered three of the ventilators before I realized that that was madness.    Aside the fact that I burnt my finger, there was no finesse in placing the ventilator.   The lamp tops are white metal, I suppose one could solder them, but I don't solder white metal.    I remain sure the only result would be a melted detail.    Five minute epoxy is the way forward.   The ventilators have a very specific orientation, the pointy bits are transverse across the roof, perpendicular to a line down the length of the coach.  And they should stand from the roof in a radial fashion.   The epoxy has a minute near the end of the five when it is firm enough to hold position as you twiddle with the ventilators, yet is still plastic enough to permit this.    Do one row, allow to cure for 20 or 30 minutes, then the other row.   Hopefully the photos illustrate.

 

 

 

 

To finish the roof I need to solder and super glue on rain strips, made of the .7mm wire provided, and solder on two grab handles on the step end of the coach.   For those I want a slightly loose hole, to encourage some solder to creep to the outside and make a nice fillet between handle and roof: the inside of these handles must be filed flat, as the end of the coach is in the way.

 

I expect to work tomorrow.    Possibly I'll finish the roof and have a few photos.    My approach to the rain strips has evolved a little since the first coach.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[Brassey]

On 06/01/2021 at 22:06, bluestag said:

All thirds were far and away the most numerous diagram of these coaches built

 

I believe that the LNWR all third was the must numerous coach ever built by any railway company.

 

Very nice thread which I will follow intently.  I have a number of these to build in 4mm too.

[bluestag]

9 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

I believe that the LNWR all third was the must numerous coach ever built by any railway company.

 

Very nice thread which I will follow intently.  I have a number of these to build in 4mm too.

Yes, now that you mention it, it was.

 

Are your 4mm coaches from MicroRail or from London Road Models?

[Brassey]

38 minutes ago, bluestag said:

Are your 4mm coaches from MicroRail or from London Road Models?

 

I bought some from David Geen when at the time he was doing an offer at a show of buy 2 for a certain price. I also picked up some MicroRail etches on eBay.  I am not sure that LRM do exactly the same diagrams but from them I have another break van and an invalid carriage.  I think I have some 6 wheel parcels stock in the stash.

 

This is the only pre-grouping picture I have of Berrington and Eye but it shows a standard set of van, compo, third, third, compo, van, behind a Jumbo.  I will get on with this train once I have produced the Jumbo:

 

 

To add some discipline to my wayward build schedule, I am trying to build trains in the order they appeared on the timetable but I'm easily distracted.  This is not of of the initial sets so don't hold your breath in seeing this rake anytime soon!  On the other hand I might change my mind - it is a hobby afterall.

 

 

[bluestag]

Got in some modelling time today.    I finished the roof for the current coach.   Below you see the roof tinned at both ends and at the middle, to secure the .7mm wire supplied, shown.

 

 

 

A line is scribed at the mid point of the roof, about .51" from the edge including the edging strip.   It seems a large arc described, but photos from overhead confirm the shape.  The wire will sit a little down the roof from the scribe line, to where it is just visible by the wire.    A clothes peg is used to hold it while I bring in the soldering iron.   The other rain strip is secured at the ends.

 

 

 

The lengths of the rain strips not soldered are fixed with super glue.   The wire stands a little proud of the roof, and must be held down with a craft knife while the glue sets.

 

The excess solder is removed with a steel wire brush in the motor tool.   WEAR EYE PROTECTION if you do likewise.  

 

The second coach built was the Acme blow up of the David Geen Picnic Saloon.    The roof was not used.  It was about a millimeter short for one.   It was half etched and used a flat stripe to model the rain strips.  

 

 

 

It doesn't read so much in the photo, but I was concerned that it would stand out compared to the others.    So I bought some 16thou brass.   To cut the brass to width I used a hook knife in a Stanley knife.   They are used to cut carpet, and should be available in a home improvement center.   I gently drew the knife down along a good straight edge, just enough to scribe the line,    I repeated the stroke 20 or 30 times, increasing the pressure on the knife gradually.    Eventually I got about 2/3rds thru, then was able to waggle the brass until it snapped.    The same method was used to shorten the roof to size, then the roof was clamped in the vise between two aluminum angle, and I draw filed it so that the cut was smooth and square.   

 

The Acme roof was used as a pattern to drill the holes for the lamp tops and ventilators.   The Acme lamp tops are a bit larger than the Gladiator castings.    Had I noticed before I glued them in, I might have petitioned David at Gladiator for his castings.  And the kit did not include the two ventilators needed.   These were scavenged from one of the Gladiator kits and David is kindly replacing them, as well as sending commode handles so that I don't need to bend them up from wire.  Good service.

 

The 16thou brass is too stiff to roll as it is, and I don't have a rolling mill, so I thoroughly annealed the material making it amenable to being rolled on a spongy surface.   It is now quite soft and needs to be handled with care.   The Acme roof had no provision for grab handles at the step end, so one of the roof from the current coach was drilled and used as a template.   I had a 50/50 chance to get the holes on the right end, which I did not.   The roof is not symmetrical, although at a glance it may look as if it is.   So I soldered wire in the holes and file it back.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

The finished Picnic Saloon roof:

 

 

 

And a grab handle:

 

 

I've done enough of these that I generally get them the first time.  Again, for the pair on the roof, I open the holes slightly, enough that the flux will carry the solder from the back to the front, creating a small fillet on the top of the roof.  I need to cut and file the roof grab handles flat to clear the body.

 

Next up are the solebars and springs.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

6 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

I bought some from David Geen when at the time he was doing an offer at a show of buy 2 for a certain price. I also picked up some MicroRail etches on eBay.  I am not sure that LRM do exactly the same diagrams but from them I have another break van and an invalid carriage.  I think I have some 6 wheel parcels stock in the stash.

 

This is the only pre-grouping picture I have of Berrington and Eye but it shows a standard set of van, compo, third, third, compo, van, behind a Jumbo.  I will get on with this train once I have produced the Jumbo:

 

 

To add some discipline to my wayward build schedule, I am trying to build trains in the order they appeared on the timetable but I'm easily distracted.  This is not of of the initial sets so don't hold your breath in seeing this rake anytime soon!  On the other hand I might change my mind - it is a hobby afterall.

 

 

A very evocative photo.    What kit are you using for the Precedent?

[bluestag]

I should have said earlier, although I resist making this TOO specific, there is a fully authoritative book to buy to build 30' 1" LNWR coaches to:

 

 

 

The solebars and springs:

 

 

 

The top etch included the top and bottom foot steps.   There are two small oval coupling plates that go on the buffer beams.    And four diamond tread plates to solder onto the buffers, which you don't need; the castings provided have them.   And the buffer beams.    Which have no holes etched for the steam pipes or the vacuum pipes.   More on this soon.  There is a bracket the purpose of which I cannot fathom.   There are two brackets to hold the gas canisters.  And the horn guides.   These need seven rivets each punched on them.

 

The lower etch has the four solebar parts.  There is riveting to do on the solebars.   They are doubled up.    The instructions clearly say that the parts are to be laminated to align on the lower point, with one of the layers (I'll tell you which when I get to them) fits higher than the other.    This is to engage the slot etched in the floor and tinned, as described earlier.

 

I'll be finishing the body before I start on this.    Fitting the ventilators on the doors with epoxy, after failing with solder and super glue.    That tomorrow.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[Brassey]

6 hours ago, bluestag said:

What kit are you using for the Precedent?

 

I have both a Large Jumbo and, currently on the go, a small Jumbo/Whitworth.  Both are LRM kits but formerly of the George Norton stable.  They still have the Norton branding.  I think it's a large jumbo in the picture.  Both types were allocated to Shrewsbury in 1912.

 

Having looked at my build list last night, I have 20 GWR coaches ahead of the LNWR 6 wheelers - so it could be a while before I get round to these.  That is if I can stop myself building locos.  

 

The carriage lining is of course the greatest challenge, I guess a tad easier in 7mm!  There is an article on lining LNWR coaches by Jol Wilkinson in MRJ 52.

[Brassey]

4 hours ago, bluestag said:

Fitting the ventilators on the doors with epoxy, after failing with solder and super glue.

 

Some of my GWR 4 & 6 wheeler kits have holes etched through the body where the ventilators go allowing solder to be applied from the rear.

 

PS: having looked at the picture, I think I drilled these but you get the idea.  And I know; a coach should not be in a goods yard, this was taken to check clearances!

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Brassey
Added image and PS

[bluestag]

A bit more progress: fitting the door ventilators to the body.

 

 

 

I scrubbed them with Ajax powder cleaner and an old tooth brush.   They were pretty clean, but any trace of oil is good to remove.   I washed my hands before continuing of that reason.    These are small and there are only as many as needed.   I regularly fear losing one to the floor, so take caution.    I used a fresh blade in the Stanley knife: a sharp edge will always give more control.   They needed a bit of filing, and this was a prime opportunity to lose one.  I only prepared enough for one side at a time, again out of caution.

 

 

Soldering seemed to me to be impossible, without getting solder all over the place.   On the first coach in the series, super glue was used, but the ventilators swim around on top of the glue until the glue suddenly cures: there is no grace time to adjust them.   On my first coach, the composite, I foolishly set the ventilators against the bottom of the recess to accept them, and they are out of place to this day.   I am considering flooding the area with acetone (nail polish remover), in the hopes of starting again.

 

For the second coach, the Acme based on the David Geen design, the recess has a "land" on which to mount the ventilators, which allowed the setting of the ventilators to go on without doubt or judgement.    I applied them with 5 minute epoxy.

 

Like wise the third and fourth (the current coach) both all thirds I used epoxy.   A SMALL amount of epoxy is applied to the recess in the top of the door, and the ventilator pressed into it.   Almost certainly a small amount of glue oozes out of the join.    The glue grabs from the beginning, and the ventilators stay where put.  There is a period where the ventilators and excess glue must be left alone while the glue sets up.  Attend closely, you want to wield a fresh craft knife with a #11 blade, cutting the glue against the ventilator and edge of the recess, and pick out the excess glue.   Be aware that you might dislodge one of the ventilators with the heel of your hand.   You now have only moments to get it back in place.

 

But it is a pretty straight forward process.

 

Some work on the chassis next.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag

[bluestag]

On 12/01/2021 at 22:59, Brassey said:

 

I have both a Large Jumbo and, currently on the go, a small Jumbo/Whitworth.  Both are LRM kits but formerly of the George Norton stable.  They still have the Norton branding.  I think it's a large jumbo in the picture.  Both types were allocated to Shrewsbury in 1912.

 

Having looked at my build list last night, I have 20 GWR coaches ahead of the LNWR 6 wheelers - so it could be a while before I get round to these.  That is if I can stop myself building locos.  

 

The carriage lining is of course the greatest challenge, I guess a tad easier in 7mm!  There is an article on lining LNWR coaches by Jol Wilkinson in MRJ 52.

 

Yes, the George Norton kits are superior designs using a clever method to allow the shaped footplate to be built up.   It is also applied to his design for the Cauliflower.   I have a 7mm Cauliflower which I want to see finished to pull this rake of coaches.   I really like the Cauliflower.   The design for the Mercian marketed Cauliflower require soldering lost wax castings to represent the sweeps of the footplate to clear the coupling rods.   I am not clear on how convincing the result will be, but there are several photos available that look OK.

 

I don't yet have a Precedent, but will some day.    I have eight loco kits, two of which are essentially finished, one that is on hold for various reasons, and five awaiting a start.    I should resist buying more until I have more built.   That said I just ordered up most of the elements of a Steam Rail Car, making for nine.    Gotta stop soon!   And build what I have.

 

I am concerned about painting the coaches, indeed.   I have the MRJ issue with Jol Wilkinson's article.   I recently bought a nice air brush, and before that a good quality bow pen capable of laying down narrow consistent lines.    I need to find something to practice on.

 

My first 7mm loco.   The buffer beams are now red.  I'm very fond of it.   For a four wheeler it runs extremely well, which I ascribe to compensation on classic Sharman principles.

 

 

 

The face of the 4' shunter illustrates the efficacy of a rivet press.    Those are nice, round rivets.    There are plenty more on the cab.

Edited November 22, 2022 by bluestag