Assistance Required

[cornishmad]

Hi All,

 

We our a new Company that is about to launch our range of 3D print ready models. We have over 3000 railway high details models, Locos, coaches, wagons, stations, etc all from years and years of drawings to CAD. 
 

We are looking for someone who can pull apart (Split) a model to enable the best 3D printing file package. 
 

You can use mesh mixer or other softwares. 
 

We have a test file that we can send to you, the best spilt for ease of printing will then be offered to do more for a cash reward. 
 

please note. We are not advertising the business yet, we just don’t have the time to do this part. 

 

Open to anyone so please ask for the test file. 
 

thanks all

[animotion]

I have had a look at your Kickstarter page. Are the locos on the page 3D scanned images. Judging by the quality of the images even the best 3D printer in the world would give you poor results.

Edited January 10, 2021 by animotion

[DGO]

I've done a lot of prep work of all sorts of 3D files over the last god knows how many years, but I agree with animotion, the files you have on your kickstarter are, at best, of variable quality, you have particular issues with any curved surface, no one with any sense will buy a steam loco where instead of a nice cylindrical surface you have a set of flats, sorry.

 

Also that Kickstarter dates back about 5 years ..... 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by DGO

[cornishmad]

4 hours ago, animotion said:

I have had a look at your Kickstarter page. Are the locos on the page 3D scanned images. Judging by the quality of the images even the best 3D printer in the world would give you poor results.

Hi the kick starter is so old, I am not sure why that is still there. These are high detail drawings. Check out my other post K4 in high detail for examples of our work. Thanks 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by cornishmad

[njee20]

What do you mean? Do you mean breaking the bodies down so they’ll print from a physical size or print optimisation perspective, simply removing wheels/bogies etc to give the printable bits, or actually doing orientation and supporting?

 

Are the models hollow? Have you already set wall thicknesses? What output file type?

 

I worry a bit that starting with what is clearly a very high quality 3D drawing and trying to make that something printable, could be a bit of a thankless task. 
 

surely amid 3000 models you’ve printed a good number already...?

Edited January 10, 2021 by njee20

[cornishmad]

28 minutes ago, njee20 said:

What do you mean? Do you mean breaking the bodies down so they’ll print from a physical size or print optimisation perspective, simply removing wheels/bogies etc to give the printable bits, or actually doing orientation and supporting?

 

Are the models hollow? Have you already set wall thicknesses? What output file type?

 

I worry a bit that starting with what is clearly a very high quality 3D drawing and trying to make that something printable, could be a bit of a thankless task. 
 

surely amid 3000 models you’ve printed a good number already...?

Hiya, yes we have printed a fair few.. All our models are 3D printable we are needed someone to remove bogies, wheels, roofs, etc we are making 35mm kits first. 
 

we have the latest software for support and ordination etc... the models them selfs are built in parts it’s just a case of extracting the parts to print as a kit  simple job just very time consuming. 

[cornishmad]

Our USP is affordable kits for all, we do this by actually putting the motors in wagons, carriages etc.. Each locomotive is free rolling but can be fitted with motors if the end user wishes. 

[njee20]

What’s 35mm? That’s not a common scale at all. Sounds like large scale garden use?

 

Why would you not motorise the locos?  How do you deal with lights and what not? Surely if you then need a motorised wagon to permanently attach any cost saving is totally negated?

 

Presumably the bogies etc are simply different components in the CAD, so you just deselect those? For me the benefit of 3D printing is printing bodies in one piece where possible. Why would you want to split it up? Trying to reverse engineer a printable model from a render sounds like a nightmare. 

 

Surely if you’re launching a new business you choose a couple of major items to release with, not try and get all 3000 items ready to go on day 1?

 

I may be interested in helping, but I don’t understand the ask at the moment. 

[cornishmad]

I rendered the images, I built each model in Solidworks using the what ever drawings are available most from the NRM. 
 

Yeah 35mm is garden scale but the STLs will be available to download for anyone to print at home in a vary of scales.

 

for the purpose of the kits they will be 6v/12v lighting. If you download and print your own they are all hollow and model scale ready. 
 

the aim is to be an online STL database of model railway world  

 

[njee20]

But surely in 35mm they’d be massive models? Beyond even a Phenom XXL size of printer?

 

If you’re going to be an online STL repository why does anything need splitting up? Surely you leave that to people doing the printing, given no one will be able to print it one piece. Even O gauge is hard without a very big printer. 

[animotion]

You don't need to split the locos into pieces for 4mm but in 35mm scale, what ever that is, you would probably have to print the locos in parts to fit it on the print bed. In 35mm scale I don't think it would be cost effective as each print alone would probably cost a couple of hundred pounds to print. There are printers out there can could do the job in 35mm but have you got a hundred thousand pounds to spend. If you have built the locos in Solidworks you need to design them as body shells and design the rest in Autocad for etching. I produce 3D printed loco bodies for a kit manufacturer as a one piece item to fit on the etched kit.

[cornishmad]

We have some very large machines, including the XYZ Nobels and Formlabs, the we have the XYZ Supers and I am mean it’s like a printing farm..

 

Animotion I think that is the best idea, simple parts. Think that’s the winner

 

 

i have come up with an idea I hope it works......  

[njee20]

But what’s your market? Your CADs look great - but I fear you’re putting a load of effort into something for which there isn’t a demand. What is the 35mm scale? I’m imagining that being ride on size? Surely 4mm or 7mm would make more sense? 
 

I’m not aware of Formlabs or XYZ having any large format printers, do they? Biggest I know of is the Form 3L, and that’s not big enough even for O gauge. Breaking a body up into 50 parts feels hugely counter productive. 

 

your aim is laudable, be a shame to fall at the final hurdle!

Edited January 10, 2021 by njee20

[monkeysarefun]

To create a file for 3D printing I've found that you pretty much have to create the original file  with that intention  in mind. ie, think about wall thicknesses and so on while you are creating the files, and ensure there are no reversed faces, hidden edges, tiny holes  etc and that it is 'watertight' otherwise the print will give you wierd results, if it even slices..

 

Just producing a 3D file without watching out for and correcting these issues during the initial file creation   and hoping it'll print OK without major re- editing back inside the original CAD package would be rare for me , unless I'm just crap at  3D stuff.

Edited January 10, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Crosland]

19 hours ago, cornishmad said:

Hi the kick starter is so old,

 

It's in your RMWeb signature!

[eldavo]

I really don't like to be negative but I think you have hugely underestimated the work involved in getting from your 3D models to a usable kit of parts in any scale. I'm speaking with quite a lot of experience of 3D modelling for simulations and having written a book on 3D printing.  Looking at the work you have posted recently the models look great and I could see them working well in simulators but that is a far cry from something printable!

 

For these to be printable you would have to have started with that aim in mind. You need to think how they will be broken apart to print and have built in the right material thickness etc.  What you have are some beautiful 3D models but I can see no way they will ever leave the computer screen without a serious amount of rework.

 

I would be very happy to be proven wrong and for you to have a successful business doing this but equally I would not like you to waste time going in the wrong direction.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 

[animotion]

If you are going to offer 3D printed railway vehicles they need to be vehicles that aren't commercially available in the scales you are thinking of. The holy grail of 3D printing is being able to replicate the injection moulded process and the only machines that I have come across that are close to this are the Invisiontec machines and your not going to get one of those machines on your initial budget of £3000 and the print bed on them would only be any good up to 4mm scale. I can get my prints down to an injection moulded quality but that requires a lot of post processing involved. These prints then serve as a master to be resin cast by http://www.cmamoldform.co.uk/project/scale-models/

[tebee]

Are you intending to print these yourself or sell the files for people to print at home?

 

You don't get particularly good quality out of FDM printers in general - it's OK at larger scales and we've done some 4mm scale wagons that are acceptable, but I don't think you could do sellable OO scale locos with it.

 

Resin printers are a different matter - they are not quite as good as injection molding, but better than most of the whitemetal kits out there.

 

This is a little 009 loco I sell to fit the minitrix dock tank chassis 

 

 

This is straight off the printer, with just the supports removed, no cleaning up.

 

 

Generally for resin printers the files don't need to be split, it's just a case of getting the orientation and the supports right - but that is an art in itself.

 

For this little O&K coach 

 

 

It needs to be printed like this for the best results and ease of support removal 

 

 

 

 

 

If you do want to split files up, it's much easier to do in the original cad files, rather than trying to work with the STL's 

 

Somewhere I have an FR England loco we split up for FDM printing, but I wasn't happy with the quality we were getting - I'll see if I can dig out the files and the photos. 

 

BTW the little green tank in your Kickstarter is one of my designs - It OK you can use it, it's on the Thingiverse with free use, including commercial.

 

Tom

[PatriotClass]

Quote

For these to be printable you would have to have started with that aim in mind.

 Your 3D CAD work is amazing, far beyond my own abilities.

But I have to agree to Dave and have the same problem like others here. I don't really understand, which kind of kits you want to offer. Is it basically a model, like a Revell kit for a display case, or should it be a working loco for the layout? To convert your CAD designs to a printable display kit is for sure a bit time consuming. A complete steam loco can be devided into some basic parts if using a resin printer: Body, chassis, wheels, bogie, tender body, tender chassis with wheels. Regrouping and modifying the objects should be possible.

It's a complete different process to build a working rolling stock. The only useful printable parts are: Loco body, tender body, tender chassis, cylinder block and some detail parts (speaking for 4 mm scale). But first there has to be a concept for the chassis and the mechanics. It doesn't make sense to use resin or PLA. I tried it myself, but this material is much too light. A good performing loco needs weight and a low center of gravity, so the chassis has to be brass or some iron casting. Then there are wheels, axles, bearings, gears and the motor. Do you want to offer these necessary metal parts? Especially in larger scale like 35 mm there are a lot of more metal parts that are needed for stability. Beeing honest, I can't imagine a 7,6 foot model of the A4 made of resin or PLA, even if it's not a live steam.

 

[cornishmad]

My apologies, each model has been designed in two ways.

1. Body shell to fit existing 00 gauge and N gauge chassis (currently)

 

2. Full kits that are exact copy from plans / drawings so cylinders to boiler tubes inc cabs (even the a telephone in the cab) lol 

 

We have decided to follow this process:

1. Website you will be able to download any Locomotive, Wagon, Carriage, Accessory in your chosen scale, either body if practical or full model as an  STL . To protect copyrite all STL files will have an invisible watermark unique to the customer so if in breech of copyrite we are able to track back.

 

2. We will be polling to pick the best top 5 Locomotives, 5 Coaches, 5 Wagons to then produce as 0 or larger kits again a polling will be done

 

3. Working on 3.5” Gauge & 5” Gauge 

 

All files are processed via Netfabb Pro 2021 ensuring thickness, strength test etc which will be available to view in the support section. 
 

We ran one of the largest Covid Visors in the UK last year with producing over 35,000 visors out of our workshop alone. Got our letter from the Queen so is nice to get back to what we love doing. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by cornishmad

[njee20]

I’m still a bit confused. So if I want an 88, You are saying you’ve already designed it to fit on an N gauge chassis (presumably the 68), so what needs to happen? Why can’t you just make these available?

 

Alternatively I can buy an all singing, all dancing unpowered model to run on 5” gauge track, which will be 3D printed by you? In roughly a thousand pieces, presumably? You want help splitting the model into those thousand pieces such that it’s viable?

 

I can’t see a market for the latter, at all, and I worry that it’s at odds with the former unless you’ve truly designed everything (at least) twice. If you have STLs ready to go in N and OO why would you not just release those right now? Or print them and sell as body shells?

[jonhall]

I'm a bit confused how you have the CAD skills to produce the images you have, and a 3d print farm, but can't do the Cad to get from one to the other?

 

Jon

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, jonhall said:

I'm a bit confused how you have the CAD skills to produce the images you have, and a 3d print farm, but can't do the Cad to get from one to the other?

 

Jon

 

Prepping things for print is a different skill from doing the CaD work

[njee20]

But they have a print farm and the models have been designed to drop onto an existing chassis already. So, it seems like the only help needed is to split the complete CADs into the constituent parts for printing on the 35mm gauge, where they will be rolling, but unpowered models.

 

I don’t understand why you’d be polling for the top 5 locos/coaches/wagons for the former, if the bodies are available then go (I’d print and sell them FWIW), and for the latter I wouldn’t invest any time or effort frankly. 

[monkeysarefun]

The watermark attempt at security is a little wierd too. Can;t a piratey-type open it in say Flashprint or Meshmixer or Sketchup or Blender or any other of the free 3D programmes out there and jut save it in another format, either the programmes proprietary one  or  say an .obj file, or whatever, or maybe even just do a CTL-A to select the model components then save as an .stl file with another name?

 

The live-steam models, I assume that the parts are intended to e printed off by the user who then creates castings?  I assume so because I can't imagine a live steam loco printed from Elegoo resin. The tolerances of printers are a little on the hit and miss side, and the size of most domestic printers possibly limits many parts from being printed.

 

Sorry to sound like a Debbie Downer, but i have trouble understanding some of your aims. though the renderings you've posted around the site are excellent.

Edited January 13, 2021 by monkeysarefun