Dining and restaurant coach replenishment ?

[Nearlymen]

With Hornby expanding its maunsell dining and restaurant coaches in 2021 it got me wondering how did they replenish the coaches ? Was it just done at the destination staion platform ? I.e. foodstuffs were just wheeled along the platform and loaded on ? What about the gas needed for cooking in the kitchen coaches was this likewise or was there refuelling in carriage sidings ? Was the foodstuffs sourced from local suppliers or did railway companies have their own market gardens ? 

 

I know these are not really rolling stock queries but its interesting to know how these operations actually worked, plus someone out there is bound to know !

 

Cheers

 

Clive

[Rivercider]

Was the gas for cooking the same as gas used for lighting?

The 1934 SR General Appendix lists 39 locations on the SR where vehicles could be gassed.

 

Regarding food, it does not mention restaurant cars as such, but does list 55 stations where 'Tea baskets' could be supplied ( for 1s each), and 35 stations where 'Luncheon baskets' could be supplied (for 3s each)

 

cheers 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Rivercider
correction

[Nearlymen]

I knew if I asked I'd get some really interesting replies ! Which leads me on to the obvious, what did a Pullman replenishment/gas facility look like and what did one of the 39 gassing places look like ? It sounds like a neat feature to put in a layout !

 

Thanks for the replies much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Clive

[Rivercider]

I don't know what the gassing equipment looked like but the stations etc were:

Basingstoke, Blackheath, Bognor Regis, Bournemouth West, Brighton (Goods sidings), Brighton (CMEs shops),

Clapham Yard, Dover Marine, Earley sidings, Eastbourne, Eastleigh, Exeter Central, Farnham, Folkestone Harbour, Gillinham (Kent), Guildford, Hastings, Hove, Lancing Works, Margate, Maze Hill, New Cross Gate, Newhaven Harbour, Ore, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour, Ramsgate, Reading, Rotherhithe Road, St Leonards (West Marina) Salisbury, Southampton Docks, Stewarts Lane, Tunbridge Wells West, Victoria (Grosvenor Road sidings, Eastern sec,), Weymouth, Wimbledon Park, Woking.

 

cheers

Edited January 9, 2021 by Rivercider
clarification

[johnofwessex]

AFAIK the Southern Railway catering operations were 'outsourced' I have seen - but cant remember the name of the contractor.

 

There was usually a gas tanker wagon against the buffer stops on the Southern platform at Bath Green Park

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

AFAIK the Southern Railway catering operations were 'outsourced' I have seen - but cant remember the name of the contractor.

On the Eastern and Central sections the contractor was the Pullman Car Company, sometimes using that company's vehicles, sometimes using vehicles supplied by the Southern Railway. An obvious example of which was the 6-car electric sets which worked on the Brighton main and east and west coast lines - the 6-PUL sets having a single Pullman car which provided light catering for the whole set (as well as providing seating for which a supplementary charge was payable), while the 6-PAN sets just included a pantry with serving hatch within one of the seating carriages which again provided light catering for the whole set.

 

Like Johnofwessex I can't now remember who the contractor on the Western section was and I have a feeling that the catering there may have eventually been taken in-house by the SR. The catering on the Bournemouth Belle was, of course, the responsibility of the Pullman Car company and they also provided Pullman cars on some Southampton Ocean Liner Expresses, but that was the limit of the PCC involvement on the Western section.

[Rivercider]

4 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

AFAIK the Southern Railway catering operations were 'outsourced' I have seen - but cant remember the name of the contractor.

 

There was usually a gas tanker wagon against the buffer stops on the Southern platform at Bath Green Park

Yes reading further down on page 67 of the 1934 Appendix it states

'Luncheon and tea baskets and equipment are the property of the Refreshment Contractors, and the staff responsible for searching trains must clear such articles from trains and depots and forward them to the station refreshment room to which the baskets are labelled.'

It also says that cups and saucers etc are not to be retained in mess rooms, etc, for the use of staff.

 

The contractors are not named.

 

cheers 

[phil_sutters]

5 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I don't know what the gassing equipment looked like but the stations etc were:

Basingstoke, Blackheath, Bognor Regis, Bournemouth West, Brighton (Goods sidings), Brighton (CMEs shops),

Clapham Yard, Dover Marine, Earley sidings, Eastbourne, Eastleigh, Exeter Central, Farnham, Folkestone Harbour, Gillinham (Kent), Guildford, Hastings, Hove, Lancing Works, Margate, Maze Hill, New Cross Gate, Newhaven Harbour, Ore, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour, Ramsgate, Reading, Rotherhithe Road, St Leonards (West Marina) Salisbury, Southampton Docks, Stewarts Lane, Tunbridge Wells West, Victoria (Grosvenor Road sidings, Eastern sec,), Weymouth, Wimbledon Park, Woking.

 

cheers

Highbridge and Templecombe both had their own gasworks. Highbridge's is illustrated by two photos in Colin Maggs' Highbridge in its heyday. There is also a photo of gas tank wagon No.2. The map of Bath Queens Square, later Green Park, shows a large gasometer adjacent to a pair of 'gasworks sidings'. Whether that was a railway company works or the city works I don't know

. 

[johnofwessex]

AFAIK the Dining Cars - and gas lit coaches didnt use 'town' gas but an oil based gas instead - hence the GER's Petrolea that burned the waste from the GER's gas plant

[johnofwessex]

I think it might have been Pinsch or Blau gas

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blau_gas

[phil_sutters]

12 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Highbridge and Templecombe both had their own gasworks. Highbridge's is illustrated by two photos in Colin Maggs' Highbridge in its heyday. There is also a photo of gas tank wagon No.2. The map of Bath Queens Square, later Green Park, shows a large gasometer adjacent to a pair of 'gasworks sidings'. Whether that was a railway company works or the city works I don't know

. 

I hadn't realised the difference in the type of gas used. Would the Templecombe and Highbridge gas works be producing the oil-gas and if so where did the oil come from? The S&D didn't seem to have any oil tankers, from what I can see in photos. If their gas works were for making town gas for the works and Templecombe's facilities, where did the supplies of oil-gas come from, I wonder.

[Wickham Green too]

On 09/01/2021 at 14:22, Rivercider said:

Was the gas for cooking the same as gas used for lighting?

The 1934 SR General Appendix lists 39 locations on the SR where vehicles could be gassed.

I'm not sure the Southern had any gas-lit coaches as late as '34.

 

Caterers ? - Mike King says "most cars served on the Western Section, under the previously LSWR Spiers & Pond contract, superseded in 1930 by Frederick Hotels.".

[bécasse]

11 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Caterers ? - Mike King says "most cars served on the Western Section, under the previously LSWR Spiers & Pond contract, superseded in 1930 by Frederick Hotels.".

 

Now that I have had my memory triggered, I agree, both names were familiar but I couldn't quite remember how they fitted with each other. I couldn't be certain about the 1930 changeover date, but if that is what Mike says, it is bound to be right.

[johnofwessex]

Spiers and Pond

 

http://letslookagain.com/2015/06/a-history-of-spiers-pond/

 

and

 

http://turniprail.blogspot.com/2012/03/refreshment-rooms-of-spiers-and-pond.html

 

Talks about Restaurant Car & Railway contracts 

[Mallard60022]

On 09/01/2021 at 17:11, Rivercider said:

I don't know what the gassing equipment looked like but the stations etc were:

Basingstoke, Blackheath, Bognor Regis, Bournemouth West, Brighton (Goods sidings), Brighton (CMEs shops),

Clapham Yard, Dover Marine, Earley sidings, Eastbourne, Eastleigh, Exeter Central, Farnham, Folkestone Harbour, Gillinham (Kent), Guildford, Hastings, Hove, Lancing Works, Margate, Maze Hill, New Cross Gate, Newhaven Harbour, Ore, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour, Ramsgate, Reading, Rotherhithe Road, St Leonards (West Marina) Salisbury, Southampton Docks, Stewarts Lane, Tunbridge Wells West, Victoria (Grosvenor Road sidings, Eastern sec,), Weymouth, Wimbledon Park, Woking.

 

cheers

Thanks for that matey. WOEML Restaurant vehicles were dealt with at Clapham Junction when laid over and probably Exeter central at the turn around. I believe there were  a couple of vehicles that did two return journeys per Saturday in the summer if my investigations are correct?

The gas was probably in Containers as there were Boxes for those on the U/F. I can't remember when, where and if Electrics were introduced without looking it up.

Thanks for this info; interesting selection of bases. One of those things I had never ever thought about until recent years and certain never when spotting.

Phil