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Heljan Class 27 Sound Fitting


PJ10
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Over the last few weeks I’ve been attending to some long overdue DCC jobs. Some locos have had chips updated, some factory sound fitted locos are having their speakers replaced and several are being fitted with sound for the first time, including some of my 26s and 27s. 

 

For the 26s I’ve successfully used a 27mm round Bass Enhanced speaker on top of the circuit board under the fan grill as described by Richard Croft from Roads and Rails in his Sound Fitting Page thread. With Legomanbiffo sound they perform very well.

 

Unfortunately, I can’t make this solution work for the 27s as the wiring for the headcode lighting gets in the way. I’ve attempted a variety of tweaks to the basic concept but none work. So other than removing the wiring completely what have others done?

 

I’m considering

 

1. Fitting alternative speakers (1 or 2) inside the body as close as possible to the fan grill. Possibly sugar cubes. Any other suggestions? And how is the sound quality?

2. Fitting speaker(s) in the existing fuel tank/battery box. Which speakers are suggested and where is the best way to run the wires? I’ve already partly dismantled on loco including motor removal to investigate options.

3. Attacking the chassis with a saw and/or discarding the circuit board to make more space for an internal speaker. Not something I’d like to do if I can avoid it. If I do this how critical is it to retain the axial inductors and capacitor in the motor supply?

4. Use the fuel tank enclosures available from a certain retailer. The tanks look a little oversize and the speaker looks to be an older design.

 

I’d appreciate any thoughts. Thanks for your help.

 

PJ10

 

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Afternoon Gents,

 

Many thanks for the responses. I've been giving it a bit more thought since posting and I'm going to go with a speaker in the tank. However I'm going to try and modify the existing tanks with a fall back of going for the resin ones. I'm not sound fitting all my 27s so keeping the existing tanks will mean all locos look the same.

 

Phil, Good video thanks. I'm hopeful that the advances in speaker design mean the difference will not be as noticeable. How did you route the speaker wires? I'm uncertain whether to route them under one of the bogies or up the side between the chassis casting and the body.

 

Richard, I think the round speaker is just too big. I want to retain a little of the structural integrity of the tank and was thinking about the 26x14x7. I've got the tank in bits so I'm considering how much to remove and how much to retain.

 

PJ10

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41 minutes ago, PJ10 said:

Afternoon Gents,

 

Many thanks for the responses. I've been giving it a bit more thought since posting and I'm going to go with a speaker in the tank. However I'm going to try and modify the existing tanks with a fall back of going for the resin ones. I'm not sound fitting all my 27s so keeping the existing tanks will mean all locos look the same.

 

Phil, Good video thanks. I'm hopeful that the advances in speaker design mean the difference will not be as noticeable. How did you route the speaker wires? I'm uncertain whether to route them under one of the bogies or up the side between the chassis casting and the body.

 

Richard, I think the round speaker is just too big. I want to retain a little of the structural integrity of the tank and was thinking about the 26x14x7. I've got the tank in bits so I'm considering how much to remove and how much to retain.

 

PJ10


Away from base until Friday so can’t check routing of wires till then but it will have been easiest but not visible....

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13 hours ago, PJ10 said:

Afternoon Gents,

 

Many thanks for the responses. I've been giving it a bit more thought since posting and I'm going to go with a speaker in the tank. However I'm going to try and modify the existing tanks with a fall back of going for the resin ones. I'm not sound fitting all my 27s so keeping the existing tanks will mean all locos look the same.

 

Phil, Good video thanks. I'm hopeful that the advances in speaker design mean the difference will not be as noticeable. How did you route the speaker wires? I'm uncertain whether to route them under one of the bogies or up the side between the chassis casting and the body.

 

Richard, I think the round speaker is just too big. I want to retain a little of the structural integrity of the tank and was thinking about the 26x14x7. I've got the tank in bits so I'm considering how much to remove and how much to retain.

 

PJ10


Not done any of my 27s yet, but on a Heljan 33 you can get wires down the side of the motor and through the same holes that the tanks clip into.

 

Roy

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42 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:


Not done any of my 27s yet, but on a Heljan 33 you can get wires down the side of the motor and through the same holes that the tanks clip into.

 

Roy


Thanks Roy suspect that’s what I did too

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I managed to get a Roads and Rails supplied base enhanced speaker into the bodyshell by filing down a couple of mm off of several of the 'prongs' on the pcb. I doubt the sound is quite as good as the fuel tank option but it is a considerable improvement on the as supplied speaker at a modest price.

 

https://www.roads-and-rails.co.uk/collections/speakers/products/27mm-round-bass-enhanced-speaker-4-ohm

 

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Morning,

 

Thats interesting. Thats the speaker I used and I clipped the prongs on the PCB. I could probably file a few more fractions of a mm off. How did you deal with the headcode box wiring coming out of the cab moulding?

 

PJ10

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On 12/01/2021 at 09:33, PJ10 said:

Morning,

 

Thats interesting. Thats the speaker I used and I clipped the prongs on the PCB. I could probably file a few more fractions of a mm off. How did you deal with the headcode box wiring coming out of the cab moulding?

 

PJ10

The actual speaker pictured is a Sugar Cube speaker fitted in a circular sealed housing, its not really a Bass Enhanced design, but they are ok bearing in mind the larger housing.  There is a square one which has better performance and will easily fit in the fuel tank.

https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=223_75&product_id=379

 

Charlie:   dckits-Legomanbiffo

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On 12/01/2021 at 09:33, PJ10 said:

Morning,

 

Thats interesting. Thats the speaker I used and I clipped the prongs on the PCB. I could probably file a few more fractions of a mm off. How did you deal with the headcode box wiring coming out of the cab moulding?

 

PJ10

As pictures below show, there was plenty of space for the head code wiring. Whilst looking at the fitting I note the slightest of bulge in the body shell indicating that I might need to file just a a small amount from the speaker casing.

 

E4DE9BF4-C016-46A8-866B-0C27CC82BAAB.jpeg.3c96a2c9cbe45fc9ad1d20e9f00d69d0.jpegA555395D-C4DC-47FE-9F5C-2DE56E5914B5.jpeg.ecc415277718473f2714a6c0741270bb.jpeg

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Evening Gents,

 

Charlie, I have one of these speakers for another project and having looked at it earlier I agree it will fit. And thanks for the pointer that this is a better speaker.

 

Young37215. Thanks. Thats pretty much how I installed sound on my 26s and was planning to do the same with the 27s. The only difference, I place the speaker under the fan grill at the other end to you. And because of the capacitor and inductors for the motor circuit and the 8 pin connector there is less room at that end meaning the speaker has to sit further forward. Only half the speaker is actually on the PCB, the rest is over the wiring. Hence the headcode wiring getting in the way. It would be interesting to know if the volume and quality of sound is affected if the speaker is directly under the grill or not. I thought, perhaps incorrectly, under the grill would be better. I may just turn the PCB round and see if that works.

 

Both, I appreciate your help. I hope to have time at the weekend to do the install/trial some options.

 

PJ10

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Hi All,

 

Finally manged to find time to test a few options today. I installed a 27mm round Bass Enhanced speaker in a 27 as per young37215, had a 25x25x7mm Square Megabass Cube speaker black tacked in place of the tanks on a 27 running without the body fitted so I didn’t need to worry about the wiring routing and a 26 running with the 27mm round Bass Enhanced speaker below the grill.

 

Having the three running side by side, I admit that the Square Megabass sounded the best close up but, if I’m honest it was close. And from normal viewing distance I personally found it difficult to say whether the round or square speaker offered the better sound. And whilst not an ideal comparison as I was using two different but very similar sound files, I found little difference between the under the grill or “at the other end” installations

 

So I’ve decided to KISS (Keep it Simple S**pid) and standardise on internal 27mm round Bass Enhanced speakers for my 26s and 27s. 

 

I have caveat all this by saying I’m rather new to the delights of sound fitted locos and am not an audiophile despite spending rather a lot on HiFi in my younger days. I’m sure someone with more “refined” tastes will question my options. 

 

It may all change when my Sound fitted preorders from Accurascale are delivered. And I’ve just read on another thread that Steve Brammer has fitted a Heljan Class 33 with an EM2, and additional speakers in the tanks. Bet that sound great but a little beyond what I’m looking for. At the moment …..

 

Thanks to all for the advice.

 

PJ10

 

Edited by PJ10
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Another easy & better option is to use the DC Kits Fueltank speakers which includes a replacement fueltank moulding and the large high output speaker, the knack here is to seal the small gap between the Fueltank housing and the 28mm X 40mm speaker.  This is the next best option apart from the 'Heavy Engineering' involved with the EM2 Speakers.

 

see; https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=427&search=fueltank

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Richard Croft said:

You have to weigh up the effort vs the benefit ....

Morning Richard,

 

Yes I completely agree. My testing at the weekend has proven that the simple solution of an internal speaker works for me.

 

Cheers. PJ10

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3 hours ago, carefreecfc said:


 

That’s all well and good if you want fuel tanks that are too wide.
 

Think I prefer the option to leave a speaker inside, and have something that looks a bit more authentic rather than putting a speaker in replacement fuel tanks that are too big underneath the loco.

That sadly is an incorrect statement, as you obviously have not used them !!!!!!!

 

The Heljan Original Tanks are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 13.2mm Deep

The DCKits Replacements are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 14mm Deep (Thats 9" in the realworld)

A small file can reduce this depth further to make it very similar in appearance.

 

The thread really is about quality of sounds and how easy or difficult it is to achieve the best results

for the minimum of work, the loco design (As is the Class 27 & Class 33) is not conducive to easy/good sound fitting so different soloutions suit different people. My opinion (for what its worth),

is that having loud and crisp sounds is better that having quieter sounds, as if they are loud the quality is not impaired by turning the volume down, but if the sound are quiet its not good practice to turn them up far higher that recommended, this generally does not improve the sound quality.

 

Hopefully the end user should be educated in sound fitting tips, to get the best from their models.

 

Hope we all agree.   Charlie

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On 10/01/2021 at 22:52, Richard Croft said:

I hadn't thought about the wires getting in the way for the speaker, you could fit that same speaker into the fuel tanks quite easily which would sound good. Charlies speaker for the fuel tanks does sound very good too if you don't mind adding a few mm to the width. I have a 26x14x7 speaker made by the same company as the the round speaker which might work, with a slight loss of volume over the round one.

 

Richard

That sadly is an incorrect statement too!!!!!

 

The Heljan Original Tanks are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 13.2mm Deep

The DCKits Replacements are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 14mm Deep (Thats 9" in the realworld)

A small file can reduce this depth further to make it very similar in appearance.

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7 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

 
 

Sadly that is an incorrect statement . I have used them (twice actually) , and they are noticeably wider than the loco . 
 

I would rate a speaker that fits straight onto the loco as an easier option . No filing , no complicated through wiring , no having to prime and paint fuel tanks . 
 

Just my opinion - but everyone is different and no doubt the revised tanks will appeal to some people more :-) 

That cannot be true, as I have just measured a Heljan Class 27 Tank and the Cast Resin Tank, as I have said before this is an incorrect statement or you are mistaken as the actual sizes are as quoted, so unless I have totally lost the plot, or been drinking these actual sizes are:

 

The Heljan Original Tanks are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 13.2mm Deep

The DCKits Replacements are: 45.2mm Long X 35mm Width X 14mm Deep

 

IF you don't believe me then i will take photographs of them together to prove this too you.

 

Why should I lie !!!!!!     Charlie

 

 

Edited by charliepetty
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For speakers in my 33s, I removed the tank moulding and glued the two halves together well. Then butchered the inner parts to accept a round speaker. Drilling a series of holes in the bottom to let the sound out.

 

The wires come down through a hole drilled in the chassis below and to one side of a flywheel. Make sure the speaker is sealed on its rear. I left mine in their plastic casing.

 

 

Dave.

 

 

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On 25/01/2021 at 17:27, Richard Croft said:

Sorry I was thinking of the 33, I've not used the 27 or 26 ones as often, those must be narrower.

 

Richard

 

 

Can I just point out something relevant in this thread. Apart from the batch of 27s that were built without boilers and therefore not fitted with boiler water tanks, all the other 26s and 27s were delivered with the fuel tank, water tank and battery box combination between the bogies.

Similarly class 25s Nos 026-028 033-087 and 218-247 all had a water tank adjacent to the fuel tank and battery boxes.  25242 losts it's boiler and tank and ended up like 25029-25032.

 

Class 33s didn't have a steam boiler and therefore didn't have a boiler water tank between the bogies, so are inevitably different to the smaller type two sisters, and the vast majority of 26s lost their boilers and water tanks when they were dual braked.  

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