luckymucklebackit Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 There was a recent discussion on another forum regarding the use of headcodes in Scotland in general and there was a consensus that the Scottish Region were not particularly bothered abut using them, most internal passenger trains would have "1" showing in the box and nothing else, only inter regional services would show the full four digit train description. With that said, I asked why in 1965 the Haymarket based locomotives D260–D266 were converted from end doors and lamps/discs to a four digit headcode box when they tended to be used on internal services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, while the remainder of that batch on other regions that were more structured in their use of headcodes didn't bother converting any other members of the D200–D324 batch? The reason for the conversion seems to have been lost in history but just thought I would ask on here to see if anyone knew. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Might the modification help reduce draughts in the cab? That would be more important in a Scottish winter than down south. Note that there were variations in the headcode boxes fitted to that batch. 260/1/5 had rounded corners to the panel, while the others had square corners. cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Less draughty than doors and whilst sealing them up decided it would be better to have a route indicator. If they were that important to the Scottish region though, why didn't they add them to the 26s as well - how ugly might that have been? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Rivercider said: Might the modification help reduce draughts in the cab? That would be more important in a Scottish winter than down south. Note that there were variations in the headcode boxes fitted to that batch. 260/1/5 had rounded corners to the panel, while the others had square corners. cheers To be completely accurate, as modified, they all had square cornered boxes. Several later evolved into the standard round-cornered type similar to the as-built 345-99. The modification, AIUI, was to both draught-proof the cabs and standardise the 64B fleet across the two batches 260-66, 357-68. And yes, it does appear somewhat wasteful, given the apparent aversion to using headcodes within Scottish region! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley739 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 They were also applied to the NB D61XX rebuilt with Paxman engines. Class21/29 respectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Just now, Caley739 said: They were also applied to the NB D61XX rebuilt with Paxman engines. Class21/29 respectively. ...and, further afield, the rebuilt Baby Deltics! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, 'CHARD said: ...and, further afield, the rebuilt Baby Deltics! Ah but the ER did use the headcodes, 1B66, fast to or from Cambridge, 2B65 slow to or from Baldock etc. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Presumably the headcode boxes fitted to D260-6 saw more use on inter-regional workings than those fitted to the Class 29s (and D6109) which rarely if ever ventured off-region...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Neil Phillips said: Presumably the headcode boxes fitted to D260-6 saw more use on inter-regional workings than those fitted to the Class 29s (and D6109) which rarely if ever ventured off-region......out. Just a clarification for you! Mike. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 51 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Just a clarification for you! Mike. Ah, yes........of course. Silly me! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firecrest Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Laira did something similar c.1989 when they were overhauling split box class 37s - this was naturally post headcode use but several emerged with the doors removed and sealed and a non standard smaller centre headcode panel instead - examples are 031/047/053 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I seem to recall that at least D261 and another similarly numbered were involved in collisions and the opportunity was taken to update the headcode dispalys during repairs. I have seen pictures in BRILL or similar.............I will try and look them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Firecrest said: Laira did something similar c.1989 when they were overhauling split box class 37s - this was naturally post headcode use but several emerged with the doors removed and sealed and a non standard smaller centre headcode panel instead - examples are 031/047/053 Yes, just these three AFAIK. I was quite impressed that Laira had this level of ability, even if it seemed a touch OTT! They were further recognisable by the warning horns remaining under the original circular grilles on the nose ends. Going back to the mid-late 1960s D6773/74/91 were converted from split box to centre headcode and D6772 was so modified at A end only. These three and a half conversations were full jobs with horns moved to the cab roofs. I assume they were all collision damage repairs, D6773 certainly was as I've seen a photo of it with at least one bent end (it was in early blue with cabside BR logos, this must have been short-lived on this loco). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Reiver Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 From the October 1970 Railway Observer. D6774, hauling a coal train towards Tyne Yard, ran into D6773, stationary on another freight train, at Hawthorn Quarry near Sunderland on 14 August 1970. Both locomotives were derailed and badly damaged. Both were rebuilt with central 'boxes and roof mounted horns. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Many thanks for clarifying the date - later than I thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firecrest Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Neil Phillips said: Yes, just these three AFAIK. I was quite impressed that Laira had this level of ability, even if it seemed a touch OTT! They were further recognisable by the warning horns remaining under the original circular grilles on the nose ends. Going back to the mid-late 1960s D6773/74/91 were converted from split box to centre headcode and D6772 was so modified at A end only. These three and a half conversations were full jobs with horns moved to the cab roofs. I assume they were all collision damage repairs, D6773 certainly was as I've seen a photo of it with at least one bent end (it was in early blue with cabside BR logos, this must have been short-lived on this loco). Very interesting and sorry to the OP for going off topic! Laira seemed to revel in producing overhauls that were a bit left of centre... most of their centre panel overhauls were quite distinctive too with the screwed in panels featuring sealed beam headlights - ie 142/188/263. Just to really break the mould 280 had the same panel as the split box overhauls - go figure... Don’t forget 075 to complete the list of 072-074 - that also has a bent end but flush. Anyway I digress... sorry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 12, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 hours ago, The Border Reiver said: From the October 1970 Railway Observer. D6774, hauling a coal train towards Tyne Yard, ran into D6773, stationary on another freight train, at Hawthorn Quarry near Sunderland on 14 August 1970. Both locomotives were derailed and badly damaged. Both were rebuilt with central 'boxes and roof mounted horns. Did they get roof horns as I think I've seen at least one with centre headcode and nose horns Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 13, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2021 Did I imagine reading it or did at least one bent Class 37 receive nose parts from a 40? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firecrest Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 19 hours ago, John M Upton said: Did I imagine reading it or did at least one bent Class 37 receive nose parts from a 40? I think you’re referring to one of the split box locos that was rebuilt with a flush front - ie 006/019/075/100/102 - the myth was that some of these received nose ends from split box 40s after collision damage but this doesn’t seem to be the case, and I think there was also some considerable discrepancy with the measurements between the two classes anyway. It does seem weird that some came out from repair with their doors intact - ie 006/019/100 but different works seemed to treat things differently. It was probably the case that the boxes had been written off as they’d stick out most in a collision but the rest was repairable... HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 On 12/01/2021 at 23:24, russ p said: Did they get roof horns as I think I've seen at least one with centre headcode and nose horns Yes, D6772 (one end)/73/74/91 did get roof horns, those 1989 Laira rebuilds 37031/47/53 retained their nose horns. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 14, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Firecrest said: It does seem weird that some came out from repair with their doors intact - ie 006/019/100 but different works seemed to treat things differently. It was probably the case that the boxes had been written off as they’d stick out most in a collision but the rest was repairable... HTH I have a photo of 019 at the scene of the accident that caused the damage (I was secondman on her at the time) and it was the driver’s side headcode box and the tail light below it that took most of the damage. I have the tail light lens in my collection of oddments. Andi 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 14, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, Neil Phillips said: Yes, D6772 (one end)/73/74/91 did get roof horns, those 1989 Laira rebuilds 37031/47/53 retained their nose horns. I wonder if they changed the handbrake ratios. Even today applying the handbrake on a 37 my heart sinks when you see roof horns as for some reason EE changed the ratio on the handbrake wheel and the ones with roof horns take twice the number of turns to apply it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2021 8 hours ago, russ p said: I wonder if they changed the handbrake ratios. Even today applying the handbrake on a 37 my heart sinks when you see roof horns as for some reason EE changed the ratio on the handbrake wheel and the ones with roof horns take twice the number of turns to apply it Don't complain, it's the only exercise you get! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 Thanks to everyone that responded, looks like the sealing up of the end doors would have been a good reason, with the Headcode box being added as it was " the done thing" at that time being the added feature Cheers Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 I think although they spent a lot of their time on internal ScR services, there must've been a fair chance they would be used on ECML inter-regional services where headcodes were used. Actually, the thought just came to me, perhaps they were the choice of loco for KX-Aberdeen trains? These would've had a Deltic to Edinburgh and the 40 would take over to Aberdeen. I don't think Deltics north of Edinburgh were too common until the HSTs came in. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now