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Mol's MSC Hudswell Clarke 204hp Diesel


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At present, work on this project is stalled awaiting some deliveries. However, there is still a bit of a backlog of work to report on so I'll add another update.

 

I wanted to add a radiator filler on top of the bonnet. In the BR version there's a pipe fitting on the side of the bonnet, but the MSC locos have a filler cap on top with a step and grab rails to reach it.

From photos I could see there was a big wing nut up there, but I had no views of that part of the loco. Pete Briddon was able to describe the shape, how it opened, and give me an approximate dimension, so I did my best with that!

The cap is small piece of brass sheet, shaped and drilled. At the pivoted end I have put in a tiny brass rivet. At the other end (which in reality is slotted), I took a piece of wire, flattened one end in a vice and then snipped along the length with some wire cutters to splay the end. It's a bit like a wing nut! The assembly was then soldered in place from underneath. I'll probably never know if it's exactly right, but it is at least plausible and looks OK. I may have to call upon rule 1...

 

I also added a lamp iron from the kit, in the correct location for the MSC locos.

 

Also on these photos you can see the headlight casing. The second batch of these locos (which I have chosen to model) had built-in electric headlights. At each end there was one high up near the middle, and one lower down toward the side. I made a total of four casings from brass tube and a washer soldered on the front; a 3mm LED fits within each of these. One was fitted in place on the top of the bonnet and a small hole drilled behind it for the wires. I will add the LEDs later, just before preparation for painting.

 

Also relevant at this time is the saga of the wheels. Supplied with the kit were three sets of 7842/02, 3'6" diameter 10-spoke wheels for a class 02. They are the wheels recommended in the kit instructions, but this isn't a class 02, nor is the kit for a class 02. They have a very rectangular spoke style which is wrong for the Hudswell Clarke locos.

My prototype and the kit's prototype are Hudswell Clarkes, and the new wheel diameter is 3'4.5". Slaters 7839I, 3'3" 10-spoke Hudswell Clarke, would seem to be ideal.

They are the correct style and wheels do get a couple of inches smaller with wear (they certainly don't get bigger!)

My puzzle about the choice of wheels only deepened when I checked the wheelbase of the chassis sideframes and coupling rod components. This is about 2mm too short compared to the correct dimension. If I were to fit the oversize wheels supplied they would almost touch, and not leave room for the brake blocks between!

 

So, I resolved to swap the wheels for the correct type. An email to Slaters confirmed that this was possible for a 10% handling charge, which was a lot cheaper than a whole new set of wheels. I have sent them off, but I expect it may be a while before I get the replacements back. In the meantime I am reluctant to start on the chassis and this has diverted attention to some other projects.

 

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The good news from the present is that my delivery from Slaters has arrived, so I now have the correct wheels which will allow resumption of work on the chassis.

However, I've been building a wagon kit in the meantime and I ought to polish that off.

 

But back to the past progress on the loco (which is fast catching up with the present).

 

The similar BR locos represented by the kit I started with had large cut-outs at the corners of the footplate for the steps, which were of a completely different arrangement on the MSC locos.

Additionally, the kit had a cutout under the rear bonnet, whereas the MSC loco doesn't have a rear bonnet. Finally, the sandbox arrangements are different on both locos and these were represented on the kit footplate too. So I decided to make an entirely new footplate.

 

I sketched it out based on a dimensioned sketch of the MSC locos and the sizes of the parts I had built already, and then found a suitable piece of 0.6mm thick brass. That's a bit thicker than the material supplied in the kit, but that should provide a bit more rigidity and I think I can manage a small increase in overall height having chosen to fit slightly smaller wheels than in the kit.

I marked it out and cut it, mostly with a piercing saw. I then straightened and squared up the edges with sanding blocks.

 

In due course, this part will have much more work done on it, but for now it does at least provide me with something to pose the other bits on!

 

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Next up was the gearbox casing, a distinctive feature of the MSC locos that had to be entirely scratchbuilt.

Actually, I got most of the material for it from the parts of the kit I wasn't using, such as the footplate and the rear bonnet.

 

Pete Briddon's close-up photos of the real thing proved exceptionally useful again. Note that the brackets on top of the gearbox casing were a later addition to his loco, I don't need to model them.

 

I marked out and cut a couple of shapes to form the basic box of the gearbox casing, and drilled holes for bolts to attach it to the back of the cab and to the footplate.

I also drilled holes for the orange side-lights (not fitted to D1 in today's prototype photo, but present on the later batch which I am modelling - see last photo of D11)

I used a triangular needle file to 'half-etch' the bend lines and then folded up the parts and soldered them together.

 

I solded a couple of 8BA nuts in place for the fastening to the footplate. Also a length of tiny milled brass angle along the end.

 

Then, using some of the half-etched brass from the kit's rear bonnet, I formed the top cover including the curved hinged door. I drilled holes for the handles and the locks.

Handles and the hinge were made from fine copper-plated steel wire. Another distinctive feature complete.

 

 

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The next detail on the rear end of the loco is the sandboxes. These are entirely different from the BR version of the loco so I needed to scratchbuild them.

They're a simple rectangular block with a circular lid on top.

 

After consdering fabricating them from thin sheet I decided to use the power tool approach. I think this was my first use of power tools on the build, other than the soldering iron; all the drilling had been done with hand tools.

 

I found an offcut of brass and with a combination of hacksaw and milling machine I produced the two blocks to the required dimensions. I drilled a hole right through them in the right location for the filler lid, and tapped it 8BA. Then I drilled corresponding holes in the footplate to fasten them down. This will enable me to paint them separately.

 

In the top half of the tapped hole an 8BA cheesehead goes in, with most of the head filed down to a thin profile with no remaining slot. That represents the filler lid.

 

The milling machine will see some more use in this build, definitely for bufferbeams and possibly for some new coupling rods (of which more later...)

However for these I have decided that it will be vastly easier and more accurate with a digital readout. Unfortunately fitting the DRO is quite a job in itself and that has delayed further progress. In the meantime I have got distracted onto some wagon kits so I'll do some more updates on that thread (and the layout thread) over the next week or so until I get the DRO sorted.

 

 

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My custom etch has arrived, including some new window frames for the Hudswell Clarke diesel. These should improve the appearance and enable me to correct the window shapes more neatly. I wish I'd planned this before I assembled the cab, but I'm sure they can be overlaid with a bit of care, maybe with glue rather than solder.

I also have a selection of HC worksplates to choose from.

Most of the etch is taken up with wagon detailing parts. I'm really impressed with the level of legible detail achieved on these.

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A question for my readers!

Does anyone know where I can buy the distinctive buffers seen in the photo above, in 7mm scale? They were used on most Hudswell Clarkes and I think some Pecketts too.

The buffers supplied in the kit are different (though correct for the BR version).

 

I have just spent £150 on the sound decoder for this loco. I decided to go with the Legomanbiffo Class 05 sounds and an EM2 speaker which will fit in the top of the bonnet.

Also a 21-pin adaptor board which enables me to have six different channels for the various headlights and sidelights.

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5 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I used the Slater's GWR Dean tapered buffers on my 4mm Scale Mercian Hudswell. They are close but not identical. 

https://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=SLA7908%2F

Many thanks Pete, that's a good tip. I've just had a look and they're certainly similar in style, perhaps a bit longer. They are at least readily available.

 

I had previously found that NMRS models do make the right type, but I understand that the owner has been seriously ill recently; these certainly aren't available at present:

http://www.nmrs-models.co.uk/ogauge/Buffers/Loco Buffers.html

 

Cheers,

Mol

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I think that Slaters Manning Wardle buffers may be the ones you want. I have a set in my bits box if they are any good to you ?  If you want them, send me a PM with you details  and I will put them in the post.

Graham Jones from NHRS has sadly  died. 

 

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1 minute ago, airnimal said:

I think that Slaters Manning Wardle buffers may be the ones you want. I have a set in my bits box if they are any good to you ?  If you want them, send me a PM with you details  and I will put them in the post.

Graham Jones from NHRS has sadly  died. 

 

 

Those look good too - many thanks and also for the kind offer.

I'll see if Invertrain are able to provide the NMRS ones from stock, but if not then those Slaters Manning Wardle ones would be great.

Very sorry to hear that Graham Jones has passed - another loss to the hobby.

 

 

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Today my bubble friend has been round and we have installed the digital readout on my milling machine. 

This may not seem so relevant, but it unlocks the next stages on this loco build. It’s also a tricky job I had been procrastinating and it’s great to have it completed!

 

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Thanks Paul, I’ll have a look out for that. 

 

Progress this evening has been mostly on wagons but I have got a stage closer to the loco’s bufferbeams by setting up ready to drill them for all the bolts. 

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Now I need to cut out the blanks from two different thicknesses of brass sheet (the front one is thicker).

I don’t think I’ll get as far as drilling any holes tonight. 

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So, finally some real progress to report. I have drilled all the holes in the bufferbeams and shaped them. The digital readout on the milling machine made this possible; there's no way I would have got them all in the right place by counting turns of handles and the backlash would have made it less accurate.

Most of the holes are about 1.2mm diameter and were drilled with the small diameter tip of a small centre drill.

For the buffer holes I put the centre drill in a bit further (and later used a conventional drill bit followed by a hand taper reamer to get the diameter spot on).

The tiny holes were just marked with the tip of the centre drill and then drilled through in the mill with a 0.5mm drill bit. Unfortunately this wandered a tiny bit; only one of them went badly off and I have rectified it by soldering up the wrong hole and re-drilling by hand.

This is the rear bufferbeam towards the end of the drilling phase:

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And then after I had milled around the base of it. I messed up in one place but only on the first cut, fortunately this is the back and I have filled that with solder since too:

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This is the front bufferbeam. It is thicker than the rear one (as per prototype) and has more holes for bolts:

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Because of the way I had clamped them on what would become scrap, I couldn't finish the outer edges on the milling machine. I did the final cuts by hand with a piercing saw and then used various grades of abrasive to clean them up. Here's the pair of them:

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On the right of that photo is a piece of scrap which I drilled a few trial holes in. I've soldered in some short lengths of 1mm AF hex bar as a trial for doing the holes in the bufferbeams themselves.

It seems to have worked OK, so next time I get a chance to work on these I will be doing the same in all the 1.2mm holes in the bufferbeams.

 

Finally, a trial fit of the buffers acquired from Invertrain (thanks for your recommendations). This is the thicker front bufferbeam. Bizarrely, three of the buffers in the pack have large diameter heads like these, and the fourth has a smaller head. The spare pack I bought at the same time (fortunately) is the same. So I have six large and two small buffer heads. Sadly the man who made these has recently passed away with COVID so chasing people for some replacements is probably both futile and insensitive. Four large heads is enough for this loco...

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Here's the real thing for comparison. It almost looks like they might not have got the small holes perfectly in line on the real thing either! I'm not going to stress too much about it.

 

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I will need to make and fit a plate for the drawbar surround, and the coupling itself is an interesting type, more complex than a normal 3-link. I'll have a dig in the bits box and see what can be done to replicate that.

I think I need to do a little adjustment to the corner radii of the buffer beam edges too.

 

 

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So, more musings on the chassis. There are a some issues.

 

A couple of weels ago I started work on building the kit chassis, and I didn't get very far before I hit some problems. Firstly, there were some issues with the kit parts:

  • There was considerable duplication of etched parts, not quite the same, as a consequence of the kit's history. The instructions identified which parts were to be used for the later 7mm variant, but when I trial-fitted them they didn't seem to fit perfectly. I also found that some of the etched fold lines were barely there and needed widening. All that can be fixed but it doesn't give confidence on the dimensional accuracy of the parts.

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  • The wheelbase of the sideframes and coupling rods was 2mm too short. I could overlook that if everything else was fine.
  • The chassis and rods make no provision for springing or compensation. I'm not sure that's necessary for my model anyway, and it's tricky to implement on a short-wheelbase 0-6-0 with jackshaft drive with the motor driving on the middle axle.
  • The coupling rods which were to be laminated from 3 etches had non-working representations of the knuckle joints, which reduced the material thickness to a whisker. These may have suffered from over-etching but made the parts so weak that the couldn't support their own weight! With great care I laminated the first one OK, and then it broke! For the second one I cut up the etch so that it was supported better while I laminated it and soldered in some reinforcing tubes; this was more successful. I later repaired the first one, but they may not be perfectly matched in length. I am also concerned that they are so weak.

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I'll deal with the prootype issues in the next post, but first I'm going to get out for a walk before the rain starts again!

 

 

 

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The weakness must be in part due to the large size of the holes in the rods, which I assume is to do with the crankpin systems common in 7mm?

 

In 4mm, I found using the Gibson crankpin mounting/retaining bushes also led to very large holes having to be made and now I just drill small holes and fit the rods directly to the crankpins.

 

Watching with interest.

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1 hour ago, Barclay said:

The weakness must be in part due to the large size of the holes in the rods, which I assume is to do with the crankpin systems common in 7mm?

The real weakness in these rods isn't at the crankpins but the knuckle joints. It's really odd, they're clearly not designed to be jointed as they're all etched in one piece and there is no mention of making them jointed in the instructions (plus the chassis has no provision for compensation or springing). But they have holes etched at the knuckle joints which leave just a wafer-thin sliver of material top and bottom.

 

Anyway, I now have the equipment and confidence that I can accurately and consistently drill holes the right distance apart, so a new set of rods milled from something solid and strong is definitely feasible.

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Now, onto the next issue with the frames, which is a prototype matter rather than anything to do with the kit. Here are a few images which show the frames fairly clearly (they're actually quite hard to find!)

Firstly two from the side with the battery box; the first one is in works photographic livery:

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There are very obvious triangular angle brackets which connect the frames to the bufferbeams and the footplate. There are also arrays of bolt heads on the frames in the gearbox area, and some angle-iron brackets in that area too (all those bolt heads on the bufferbeams have to fix to something!)

In contrast, there isn't much visibility through the wheels - even in the works photo where the frames are light grey, there's little detail visible between the spokes.

 

Here are a couple of views from the brake cylinder side:

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Until now, my plan has been to make the footplate and bufferbeams as one assembly, and to attach all the brackets to the main chassis frames. However, I'm now wondering whether to have a cosmetic set of frames which are permanently fixed to the footplate and bufferbeams - this would mean that the brackets could be fixed to both (rather than having visible but not-connected joints) and would create a much more rigid footplate structure. It would enable me to paint all the frame details as part of the footplate assembly rather than having to worry about the moving parts on the chassis assembly.

(On the matter of painting, there's clearly a lot of 'Sheffield Green' on the frame details, but I think the frames themselves were black; basically the light grey parts in the works photo should be black)

 

Then I would build an entirely separate functional chassis, with frames that fit between the cosmetic frames. The cosmetic frames would have to be slotted at the bottom for the axles, bearings and plunger pick-ups to slide up, but I think that would end up hidden behind the wheel centres. Depending on the crank position there might be part of the slot visible below the jackshaft crank).

 

If I'm going to make a new functional chassis and new rods, then I can make them both more robust and get the wheelbase right too!

At present I'm still not thinking of fitting compensation or springing as this would significantly complicate both the rods and the chassis and I'm not convinced it's needed on  such a short wheelbase loco. However, having a separate functional chassis would make it much easier to build a replacement sprung or compensated version in future if I felt it was necessary.

 

What do you think? Should I try to incorporate compensation? A half-way house might be to do just the leading axle (non jackshaft end) which would only require one knuckle joint in each rod.

 

The only snag I have yet thought of is the brake rigging, which might have to be fitted separately. But I don't think that's insurmountable. What have I overlooked?

 

Thoughts please!

 

Cheers,

Mol

 

 

 

 

 

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