"Not as described" getting worse?

[spikey]

Over the last 3 years I've bought 50+ items of rolling stock off Ebay.  Maybe I've been lucky, or maybe it's down to never buying from anyone with less than 99.5% feedback or who doesn't give a meaningful description of their item, but until recently I've not had one item "not as described".  However, today I got the second one in the last two months - once again, a wagon described as "new" which is quite clearly used.

 

Sign of the times, or what?

[KeithMacdonald]

Did you get any response from eBay?

[spikey]

I messaged the send who's apologised and offered a partial refund which I've reluctantly accepted, simply because I really CBA to find somebody prepared to take it to the Post Office for me.

 

I'm prepared to accept that this seller believed it to be new (although he obviously didn't check that), but the other one knew damned well what he was flogging.

[Blandford1969]

I got a D15 kit that had parts missing and a completely different tender. I asked for a partial refund, but the seller refused and only wanted to do a return which was rubbish. 

[Hal Nail]

I know this isnt quite the point the opening post was making but the use of "brand new" for anything in fairly decent condition is definitely becoming more and more widespread. I'm not sure if it is totally malicious or just ignorance.

 

Unfortunately, like everything, the more popular something becomes, the more sheer weight of numbers allows things that are just wrong to become accepted practice. 

 

I do sometimes wonder how society actually evolves given everything always seems to get worse

Edited January 13, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Foden]

I've actually sold a few locos recently, that were part of my collection that had never seen any real use other than being out the box for viewing, and was unsure whether they qualified as 'new' or not.

I may have been doing myself a disservice, but listed them as used, but noted the above in the description. I guess what they've been 'used' for is no more than a good model shop might do before a model is sent to a customer, but I'm a firm believer in honesty coming across positively, and reassuring in an advertisement. Whether I could have got more for them if I'd listed them as new is hard to judge, but ultimately the difference in price between (genuine) new, and 'as new' is largely negligible in this instance I think.

I agree though, there seems to be a lot more chancers out there lately. 

[John M Upton]

It is nice to actually have a description!!  There are too many now who simply use the default wording Ebay automatically stick in when listing is created or worst still (and a real bug bear of mine) the simple description 'Condition as photos'.  

[Hal Nail]

20 hours ago, Foden said:

I've actually sold a few locos recently, that were part of my collection that had never seen any real use other than being out the box for viewing, and was unsure whether they qualified as 'new' or not.

 

As soon as something has been pre-owned the warranties, guarantees, right to return etc are lost to the next purchaser. That's what's key here, not how much its been fondled. I think the definition of brand new actually says the box hasn't been opened but I might be wrong on that.

[Foden]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

As soon as something has been pre-owned the warranties, guarantees, right to return etc are lost to the next purchaser. That's what's key here, not how much its been fondled. I think the definition of brand new actually says the box hasn't been opened but I might be wrong on that.

Whilst that may be the case here, it is certainly not always true, and is not a hard and fast rule. 

[Hal Nail]

1 minute ago, Foden said:

Whilst that may be the case here, it is certainly not always true, and is not a hard and fast rule. 

Which bit?!

[Colin_McLeod]

On 12/01/2021 at 21:19, Blandford1969 said:

I got a D15 kit that had parts missing and a completely different tender. I asked for a partial refund, but the seller refused and only wanted to do a return which was rubbish. 

 

While I understand your frustration, there are other threads on here written from the sellers' point of view which explains the reluctance to give partial refunds.

[Foden]

1 minute ago, Hal Nail said:

Which bit?!

Which bit what exactly?

[Hal Nail]

15 minutes ago, Foden said:

Which bit what exactly?

"Whilst that may be the case here" - do you mean the bit about the warranties, or the bit about not opening the box, or both?

Edited January 14, 2021 by Hal Nail
Typo

[Foden]

Just now, Hal Nail said:

"Whilst that may be the case here" - do you meant the bit about the warranties, or the bit about not opening the box, or both?

My point in saying 'may' is that in the example above, of an item of rolling stock for a model railway, I have no particular knowledge one way or the other whether any warranties or guarantees etc are passed on, I'm not qualified or educated to know this.

However, your comment of 'something' lead me to believe you are broadly referring to all things, which is incorrect. Recently  new houses, cars, and in some cases some everyday products can have such assurances that are passed on to another end user, even if there may be some stipulations attached in doing so. 

[Hal Nail]

I was trying to remember Ebay's definition of new - it actually varies a bit by category but for collectables is:

 

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item. See the seller's listing for full details.

 

My understanding is based on school economics when they explained depreciation on a car losing half the value the moment it leaves the showroom which I thought was due to warranties etc but it was a while ago!

 

I'm sure it isnt hard and fast but in the context of ebayers passing off used stuff as new, that's one reason why it is a bit misleading.

[GWR-fan]

As stated the eBay policy as regards an item described as new is that the item is unused and unopened in original packaging.  Now given that if an item is removed for photographing then technically is it still a new item as the packaging has been opened?  I fail to see how a private individual (not a store who has purchased a new item for resale) can offer an item as new.  As soon as the original buyer has purchased the item it becomes secondhand or pre-owned goods and as such it is used,  as the private,  original purchaser is unable to offer the manufacturer's warranty on the item as in general the warranty is cancelled when the original purchaser sells the item.  I always listed my items as used,  pre-owned condition even though in most circumstances the items had not been used and many not even removed from their packaging.

[Crosland]

Even a  brand new item in a shop may have been opened and handled, test run, tried for size, etc, etc,... It can still be sold as "brand new" with all warranties intact.

 

As always, it's complicated, and context is everything. What eBay say may differ to the outcome if tested in the courts.

[Waverley47708]

I'm always amazed how many things are sold having only ever been run to test or words to that effect.  

 

For me does it run, is the body work unmarked and are all the bits, ladders, footsteps etc there.

 

 

[Hal Nail]

3 hours ago, Waverley47708 said:

I'm always amazed how many things are sold having only ever been run to test or words to that effect.  

I'm not! Surely you've seen the frothing on here every time something is announced. Do you really think every purchase gets used?

[Sir TophamHatt]

To be fair though, sellers can be as bad.

I bought a book that was listed as "Very Good" but it had someones name on the inside, folding, a few other pencil marks...  Certainly not "very good" condition.

Seller said I should send it back and they'd refund.  I asked for a postage label (as why should I lose out?).  Seller just refunded and said send the item back.

I didn't.  Still waiting for a label.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Not a very clever seller?

 

The eBay returns system usually works ok...

 

Seller pays for ‘Label’.

 

Ebay sends file to buyer to print label.

 

Buyer prints label, takes package to post office.

 

Tracked delivery to seller.

 

Seller refunds buyer.

 

Ive done this a few times, both as buyer and seller....no problem so far. 

 

[John M Upton]

I had one cheap item recently where the buyer said he would like to return it (slightly odd message, slightly drunk ramblings about 'oh I didn't realise...' which in other words meant I didn't read the description).  I said no problem, I will issue a refund when it arrives back here.

 

Never appeared, never heard from the buyer again, still holding onto his five quid.....

[melmerby]

I've had a small delivery from an e-bay seller that was not the correct item. These are brand new items and the total including postage was £1.99.

I would hope that it was a simple mistake as it was the wrong voltage bridge rectifiers (too low).

(He sells the same thing in several different voltage ratings and the price relects the voltage selected.)

When I opened the package shortly after it had arrived at Monday lunchtime I noticed they were not the correct item, so I messaged the seller using e-bay's contact form, explaining that they were incorrect.

 

How long should I wait for a reply before escalating it officially?

[Colin_McLeod]

I would give seller three working days then escalate without further warning.

[john new]

On 05/02/2021 at 12:12, Sir TophamHatt said:

To be fair though, sellers can be as bad.

I bought a book that was listed as "Very Good" but it had someones name on the inside, folding, a few other pencil marks...  Certainly not "very good" condition.

Seller said I should send it back and they'd refund.  I asked for a postage label (as why should I lose out?).  Seller just refunded and said send the item back.

I didn't.  Still waiting for a label.

Similar issue a few years back, described as good condition copy of the HMC Wollaton papers (rare). Arrived with cover detached. Expected to send back to USA at my cost and no refund unless they got it. Cut my losses and had it rebound in the UK. Might have been customs or postal damage but I have rarely used e-bay for second-hand since.

Edited April 14, 2021 by john new