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7mm scale tank wagon kits? Unfitted class B tanks


Mol_PMB
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Hello!

 

I'm planning to make a rake of about 5 tank wagons in 7mm scale appropriate for a tar distillery in the 1960s. The scan attached from 'British Railway Goods Wagons in Colour' is the sort of look I'm going for.

I have some specific prototypes in mind, including an RCH 1907 12t rectangular tank, an RCH 1911 14t cylindrical tank, and an RCH 1937 14t cylindrical tank.

 

On the face of it there's a 7mm scale kit for each, from Slaters, Slaters and Powsides respectively.

Great. Except that none of them are quite right.

  • The Slaters rectangular tank is a pre-1907 design: the tank and underframe are too short for a 1907 tank, and there isn't a floor under it so it is too low. I've worked out a way to fix that by splicing in some new sections and hiding them with the tie-down straps which I will need to add.
  • The Slaters 1911 cylindrical tank is a Class A type so the tank diameter is too large by about a foot (7mm). From what I've read the tank mouldings aren't great, so that would encourage me to make a new tank to the correct size (about 39mm diameter). The rest should be usable with a few tweaks.
  • The Powsides 1927 cylindrical tank may be a Class A too, but by all accounts the tank moulding is terrible and I might as well start afresh with a new tank.

 

So, am I missing anything with regard to oil tank wagon kits - of the older, unfitted types?

  • I have seen a 14t tank wagon listed on the nmrs models website, but I understand the owner is ill and is unable to answer questions about the model or to fulfil any orders at present. It appears to be a brass model but again Class A.
  • The Dapol RTR models look nice but again I think they all have large-diameter class A tanks (even those in black livery and sold as class B). Is that correct or do the black ones have a smaller tank?
  • Looking ahead it seems the Dapol anchor mount tanks currently under development may genuinely be made in the two different sizes, so one of them might be suitable in due course. However, all the local prototypes I have identified so far are older types of tank.

 

40mm OD plastic pipe is readily available, as is 38.1mm, so material for the tank barrel itself isn't a problem. Some overlays of 10 thou styrene to represent the overlapping sheets, followed by a zillion rivets from Archer decals should solve most of it. But what about the ends?

I have looked at the Plastruct range of tube ends, they do a fully elliptical dome end for 38.1mm OD tube, but the smallest dished end (which is more the shape I need) is for 44.5mm tubing.

Are there any other sources of dished ends? I have a friend with a lathe so potentially I could make my own, but that's not possible in COVID lockdown.

 

Thoughts and recommendations welcome.

 

Many thanks,

Mol

 

 

Lancs_Tar_Distillers_1969.jpg

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Ah, I'd forgotten about them. I guess it's a case of keeping an eye on ebay for those?

A quick google suggests they did a 12t and 20t tank, they would need a bit of work but might be a reasonable starting point.

Does anyone actually have either of these and could confirm the tank dimensions for me?

Cheers,

Mol

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Yes, it's the ends that are the tricky bit. I think I saw a thread somewhere else about using the ends of drinks cans (the inner part of the bottom) .

Next time I go shopping I'll see if there are any cans of a suitable size.

 

I suppose they could be 3D-printed but I fear that an elliptical shape would need a lot of cleaning up.

The chassis aren't too bad though they are more visible than on most wagons. I'm tempted to start with a kit and replace the tank, because there are a whole load of other detail bits on a tank wagon (end stanchions, tie-downs, filler caps etc) that would be supplied in the kit and would at least give me an appropriate 'bits box' to start with.

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I have a soft spot for these smaller wagons and have three built using Slater's underframes. The cylinder ends need to be domed. This was achieved by finding a large socket of the correct diameter and a larger socket, then pressing a square of brass between them in a large vice. Once the basic circular shape is formed the test is done by miniature panel beating. Easier to do than describe. The material cost is low and I probably had a failure rate of 25% but was happy with the outcome. The tanks were formed from individual panels of shim brass over a plastic or wooden former. Pictures to follow when it stops snowing.

 

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9 minutes ago, doilum said:

I have a soft spot for these smaller wagons and have three built using Slater's underframes. The cylinder ends need to be domed. This was achieved by finding a large socket of the correct diameter and a larger socket, then pressing a square of brass between them in a large vice. Once the basic circular shape is formed the test is done by miniature panel beating. Easier to do than describe. The material cost is low and I probably had a failure rate of 25% but was happy with the outcome. The tanks were formed from individual panels of shim brass over a plastic or wooden former. Pictures to follow when it stops snowing.

 

Good tip! That would be great to see what you've done and how it has turned out. Many thanks.

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As I understood it the Dapol 14T tank wagon was modelled on the wartime Ministry class A tankers many of which were converted to class B after the war.  I would have thought that the tank diameter would remain the same but happy to be corrected.

The kit currently sold by NMB was the one previously sold by Meteor models.

Cheers,

Ray.

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Yes, I think you are correct about the Dapol tanks. They are correct for some class B prototypes (those converted from class A) but not for tanks built as class B in the first place.

For example, these three photos of two Lobitos tanks shows one of each sort. The nearer one is 107 and was built as a class A with a large tank.

The next one is 118, this was built as a class B with a small tank. Other differences include that the diagonal strapping goes inside the solebars rather than outside, and it doesn't have catwalks (neither of them have ladders).

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-ellesmere-port-line-of-14t-tank-wagons-stanlow-c1972-r3l-see-abk430-for-other-side.html

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-ellesmere-port-14t-tank-wagon-107-stanlow-c1972-r3l-similar-to-abk426-see-abk427-for-other-side.html

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-ellesmere-port-14t-tank-wagon-118-stanlow-c1972-side.html

 

Dapol happen to have modelled both these tanks.

The model of 107 in class A livery is an accurate model for that condition.

It could also accurately be produced in the later livery shown in these photos as a class B, though it would need a tiebar between the axleboxes (added as the load capacity of a large tank with class B fuel oil is heavier and this has effectively become a 20t tank).

However, their model of 118 is inaccurate. To represent 118 it should have a smaller tank as shown in the prototype photo.

For the class B tank 118 they have used the livery from this anchor-mounted tank 125:

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-oilfields-ellesmere-port-20t-tank-no-125-op-1949-exwks-stanlow-dock-m-s-c-ellesmere-port.html

However, I'm not convinced this livery would be right for 118 either, even when it was new. Earlier photos of Lobitos class B tanks show the LOBITOS lettering spread out along the whole length of the tank.

 

I feel like I'm nit-picking now. The Lobitos tanks are actually based on the MSC Railway so they would be tempting if only they were right!

Mol

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Thanks Paul, I have been studying those photos of the YTD rectangular tanks quite closely (and have bought downloads of some of them).

The J.E.C. Lord tank is different again, with end stanchions and diagonal braces. Ideally I'd like to model two different rectangular tanks and three or four different cylindrical ones.

Cheers,

Mol

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I have checked the diameter of the Powsides tank barrels with Robert (the owner) and he says they are 45mm.

That's a bit big for my needs so I've said he can omit the tank barrels from the two kits he's sending me. Fair play, I'm getting a discount!

I've also been in touch with a friend of mine who has a 3D printer and he's going to run me off a couple of trial tank ends suitable for 40mm pipe.

Paul

 

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I got out to the workshop as promised. I have included three other wagons that are/were available. The Slater's is the largest along with a similar B type on a white metal chassis. The ICI wagon has a white metal chassis and a brass tank but I cannot remember the kit manufacturer. The smaller three are my scratch builds on Slater's chassis. One of these came from the bay of E and turned out to be a short MR type. The intended tank later found a home as a diesel tank on Frydale and I rolled a new one. It makes a real contrast with the Slater's offering.

IMG_20210115_132142.jpg

IMG_20210115_132151.jpg

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That's great, many thanks! You have achieved that prototypical look of a rake of tanks that are all slightly different to each other, which is what I'm hoping to do too.

I like the difference in tank sizes, mounting arrangements and chassis types.

Cheers for braving the snow!

Mol

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They are my tribute to the short rakes that could be seen awaiting transfer to the two local chemical plants. If you can find a badly painted five plank wagon or two they are a very inexpensive project. The bay of E occasionally has the Slater's underframes that someone didn't get round to using.

Edited by doilum
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  • 2 weeks later...

Some progress to report. 

I have been playing with techniques for tank barrels including the rivetted seams. 

This is made of 40mm plastic pipe with a partial wrap of 15 thou plastikard and some Archer rivet transfers. 

I think I need to use 10 thou plastikard and prime it before the transfers so they stick better and I can see what I’m doing to get them straighter. 

36E4678D-D723-4F82-BF9A-A1E4E939E939.jpeg.635361df8bba3043cabc199e3f91ba76.jpegC46567BB-1BBC-4E65-9E35-518E42D6AE12.jpeg.7e93328368a388b4aeb6397678b10fea.jpeg

That one has a commercial pipe bung for an end, but I now also have a couple of shapes of 3-D printed end to try out:

 

6A0E5CD0-9975-45D1-AC77-7374C6FA100A.jpeg

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Here are a pair of class B tank barrels in progress. One is temporarily positioned on an RCH 1911 Slaters tank wagon chassis which is also in build. 

The other is destined for an RCH 1927 chassis from Powsides, which I am waiting delivery. I’ve ordered two of those and the other is currently planned to have a lagged class B tank. 

Hopefully I will have more progress to report on these in a few days time. 

 

4A78D3C0-557E-427A-9827-087BC677FEDB.jpeg

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On 27/01/2021 at 18:17, Mol_PMB said:

Some progress to report. 

I have been playing with techniques for tank barrels including the rivetted seams. 

This is made of 40mm plastic pipe with a partial wrap of 15 thou plastikard and some Archer rivet transfers. 

I think I need to use 10 thou plastikard and prime it before the transfers so they stick better and I can see what I’m doing to get them straighter. 

36E4678D-D723-4F82-BF9A-A1E4E939E939.jpeg.635361df8bba3043cabc199e3f91ba76.jpegC46567BB-1BBC-4E65-9E35-518E42D6AE12.jpeg.7e93328368a388b4aeb6397678b10fea.jpeg

That one has a commercial pipe bung for an end, but I now also have a couple of shapes of 3-D printed end to try out:

 

6A0E5CD0-9975-45D1-AC77-7374C6FA100A.jpeg

Hi, which sheet number of Archers rivets did for the tank barrel. I am looking at getting some Archers to rivet a D16 loco in 7mm.

Bob

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10 minutes ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Hi, which sheet number of Archers rivets did for the tank barrel. I am looking at getting some Archers to rivet a D16 loco in 7mm.

Bob

These are AR88063. They are just about right for the tank barrel in both size and spacing.

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