Mol's MSC Wagons

[montyburns56]

16 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The book 'Industrial Locomotives of the North West of England' has two colour photos of them, but only one in this livery (the other is mostly yellow).

The stripey one (in the same livery as the one a couple of posts above) is a winter shot in the snow, and though nominally in colour there isn't much colour visible! I think it is dark green with yellow stripes.

 

There is a much closer black and white photo of one here (image 134), there are plenty of steam locos and some interesting recollections in this link too:

http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/wotec-2099725-steelmaking-irlam-cadishead-edited/

 

This promotional image with a different arrangement of stripes gives the impression of being dark green with yellow stripes, or am I imagining the green?

That's from:

https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/8658-yorkshire-engine-company/page/2/

 

Wow, if that loco hits you then it's definitely your fault. 

[5050]

Thanks for the link to the MSC film, extremely interesting.  Brings back some memories of cycling through Irlam towards Eccles in the early/mid 60's, looking across the road - and seeing a blinkin' great ocean going ship sailing along behind the houses!  Rather surreal when you're not expecting it.  I also remember as a young lad going to Runcorn with my Dad and crossing the transporter bridge with the new one being built alongside it.  TBH, I think I was possibly a bit more interested in seeing trains on the railway viaduct!

[Adam88]

On 02/02/2021 at 20:28, Ruston said:

I don't suppose you happen to know the colours of the livery on that Yorkshire DE2? Black an yellow stripes at a guess but the rest? I've never seen any loco with horizontal stripes before.

 

Not even LMS Duchesses?

[Mol_PMB]

36 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

 

Not even LMS Duchesses?

True.

But I think Ruston was alluding to the high-visibility markings that are normally applied diagonally, sometimes as chevrons. Note that chevrons can point in a variety of directions including up, down and sideways!

Vertical was less common, horizontal rather rare!

 

[Adam88]

34 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

True.

But I think Ruston was alluding to the high-visibility markings that are normally applied diagonally, sometimes as chevrons. Note that chevrons can point in a variety of directions including up, down and sideways!

Vertical was less common, horizontal rather rare!

 

 

I think he was too.  I doubt many duchesses ventured onto the MSC system.

 

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Adam88 said:

 

I think he was too.  I doubt many duchesses ventured onto the MSC system.

 

Indeed! LMS ‘pugs’ were occasional visitors though. 

But the MSC hosted much larger steam locos in parts for export - including Beyer-Garratts.

For diesels, a class 25 once made it into Manchester Docks for an exhibition, and a variety of type 3 and type 4 diesels ran on MSC metals at Cadishead and Stanlow. 

 

[Adam88]

I always found the MSC fascinating.  Aged 10 we went there for a school trip.  I don't really remember the details other than it was a boat trip but I guess we started in Salford and certainly went through some locks and under the Barton aqueduct.  Certainly the scale of everything was, and is, most impressive.  I don't remember any of the railway but it must have still been in action at the time.  I also remember seeing a splendid set of photographs at Tatton Park of the canal's construction.  Tatton was the country seat of Lord Egerton who was the second chairman of the canal company.  I've never seen them published but I'm sure they must have been by now.

 

Incidentally, I am very impressed by your model.  Keep up the good work.

[5050]

A few years ago (probably a lot more than a 'few' TBH!) we went on a trip from Salford to Liverpool Pier Head on a Mersey ferry boat.  A really interesting trip.  Return to Salford was by coach which was far less so..........

[RThompson]

On 30/01/2021 at 14:14, Mol_PMB said:

Here's my first 'private owner' wagon for the MSC Railway theme.

 

The largest industry alongside the MSC Railway 'Through Route' was the steelworks at Irlam.

Operated by the Lancashire Steel Corporation Ltd, it was once a major user of the MSC Railway for all incoming and outgoing traffic.

However, in the 1950s a new direct connection was built to link the steelworks to the CLC main line railway, cutting out the MSC.

 

Some steelworks traffic remained on the MSC Railway, including steel products for export via Manchester docks; that continued in small quantities into the 1970s when the steelworks closed.

 

One of the more interesting steelworks traffics was spoil, slag and other waste which was disposed of at the tips at Hollins Green and Rixton, a few miles west of Irlam along the MSC Railway. The LSC had running powers over the MSC for this traffic, and the trains would have been hauled by LSC locomotives.

The first three photos below are at the steelworks, showing the V tipper wagons used for the general spoil traffic (these are all cropped from the edges of photos featuring less interesting things like kettles). The fourth photo is cropped from an aerial photo showing one of the tippers at Hollins Green tip.

 

 

At 8:59 on this film there is a rake of them visible at the steelworks in 1962:
https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-manchester-ship-canal-1962-online

(For anyone interested in the MSC the whole film is worth a watch!)

 

Just before Christmas I saw a 7mm scale etched kit for one of these on ebay; the kit is from RT Models. It was an impulse purchase as I recognised it from the Hollins Green aerial photo, and I did the research afterwards. I therefore need to apply for some modeller's licence to include one of these in an MSC train, and/or build a whole rake of them and an LSC loco!

 

 

The kit was built largely as per the instructions; quite a tricky model with a zillion tiny etched bits but it came together quite well in the end. I used LMS brake van buffers which seemed to match some of the photos.

The tipper release levers do actually work - if you pull out the locking pin (on that fine chain) and then lift the lever, it releases the V skip allowing it to tip. Transfers were custom printed from my own artwork.

 

I chose to model it in a pretty wrecked condition as it's likely to lurk in the weeds at the end of a siding until my modeller's licence arrives! However, it runs pretty well although it could do with a load as it's a bit light.

I don't have any great photos showing them loaded, but the film clip suggests they carried light-coloured lumpy stuff - possibly old refractory?

If I decide that it will lurk in the weeds then I might be tempted by a partial load and some small shrubs growing out of it!

 

 

 

Hello Mol_PMB

 

Would it be possible to use photos of the wagon on my websites gallery page?

 

If you do want to buy more, please note there is a 2 month wait from ordering at the moment.

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, RThompson said:

 

Hello Mol_PMB

 

Would it be possible to use photos of the wagon on my websites gallery page?

 

If you do want to buy more, please note there is a 2 month wait from ordering at the moment.

Yes, that's fine. I'm glad you like it. I'm not in a rush to order more as I have a backlog of other stuff, but thanks for the heads-up on the lead time.

Cheers,

Mol

Edited February 5, 2021 by Mol_PMB

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, RThompson said:

 

Hello Mol_PMB

 

Would it be possible to use photos of the wagon on my websites gallery page?

 

If you do want to buy more, please note there is a 2 month wait from ordering at the moment.

I have to say that the etched fret is a gift that keeps on giving! I've used quite a lot of spare bits and offcuts on my Hudswell Clarke diesel and some other wagons. For example on the diesel the headlights use spare axle washers, the cab handrail mountings are from spare rivet strips, the cab beading is from the fret edges and even the cotter pins on the coupling shackles are left-over etched tabs from the tipper wagon!

[Mol_PMB]

I recently bought a copy of the Marsden Rail DVD of theManchester Ship Canal, which was mostly filmed in the 1950s and 1960s.

To modern eyes, the image quality isn't great but there are some very interesting sequences and subjects. Mostly about the ships, the railway gets a look-in occasionally.

Here are stills of perhaps the best two railway shots:

Firstly a steelworks train using its MSC Railway running powers just below Warburton Bridge: a Yorkshire diesel and a rake of 8 tipper wagons like the one I have modelled:

Secondly there is a sequence at LTD Cadishead with a long rake of tank wagons. Most appear to have the usual small LTD lettering and are rather indistinct, but the camera lingers on this 'Lane Bros' example:

Note that the adjacent tank on the right (rather lost in the shadows) is a rectangular LTD one. Both of these would be good to model eventually; I do have one other image of a Lane Bros tank at LTD Cadishead but it's even less clear than this one!

 

Edit: Here's a reminder of my model tipper wagon

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Mol_PMB

[Ruston]

The weathering on that tipper wagon is superb.

[Fat Controller]

9 minutes ago, Ruston said:

The weathering on that tipper wagon is superb.

Agreed; I hadn't realised it was a model until I saw the track....

[Sweet pea]

An excellent job weathering up the tipper.

[Mol_PMB]

Today's new wagon is a bit of a light-hearted one, but I'll give it some background anyway.

 

After the opening of the Ship Canal, Manchester became an early centre of oil refining, with many companies setting up oil depots and refineries in the Trafford Park and Barton areas. It was soon realised that refining highly flammable materials very close to a city centre wasn't a great idea, and that led to the developments of the much larger oil depots and refineries around Stanlow near the bottom end of the ship canal. However, specialist oil refining and blending continued in Trafford Park, with several firms focusing on products such as lubricating oils, transformer oil, and edible oils. These were much in demand from the engineering and food-processing firms in Trafford Park and across the north west.

One of these companies was the Manchester Oil Refinery. They had a fleet of class B tank wagons painted in a distinctive green livery. Here are two of the later anchor-mounted type seen in 1965; both of these have lagging and steam heating coils fitted.

 

In the 1960s, Manchester Oil Refinery was later taken over by Lobitos (who had a refinery at Stanlow) and subsequently merged with Burmah and Castrol.

There's a photo here showing a Manchester Oil Refinery tank, sandwiched between two in a combined Lobitos / MOR livery; this one isn't lagged:

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-ellesmere-port-14t-tank-wagon-127-stanlow-c1972-r3l-similar-to-abk-502-part-of-tank-wagons-120-4-also-visible.html

 

One day I'm going to build a proper model of a Manchester Oil Refinery tank wagon for my layout, but in the meantime I couldn't resist a cheap and quick substitute.

Many years ago, Meccano/Hornby produced O gauge tinplate models of these wagons, and I picked up a rough one on ebay for £7.50. For its time, it's actually not a bad representation, and the livery is surprisingly close to the prototype too.

With some oddments from the bits box that weren't good enough for a proper model, I have today replaced the wheels, bearings and couplings. Otherwise I've left it as received.

Here it is coupled up to a Dapol Esso tank wagon which is another recent purchase and would also have been at home in Trafford Park:

 

 

 

 

[Ruston]

There is a kit available in O for a 14-ton anchor-mounted tank I can't remember who makes it now but I built two of them The etched underframes and whitemetal castings were OK but the cast resin tank was fit only for the bin.

[Marshall5]

ISTR that Meteor used to do a 14T tank as did/do Powsides but it might be worth hanging on for the new Dapol anchor mounted ones announced a while back.

Ray.

[Sandhole]

21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Today's new wagon is a bit of a light-hearted one, but I'll give it some background anyway.

 

After the opening of the Ship Canal, Manchester became an early centre of oil refining, with many companies setting up oil depots and refineries in the Trafford Park and Barton areas. It was soon realised that refining highly flammable materials very close to a city centre wasn't a great idea, and that led to the developments of the much larger oil depots and refineries around Stanlow near the bottom end of the ship canal. However, specialist oil refining and blending continued in Trafford Park, with several firms focusing on products such as lubricating oils, transformer oil, and edible oils. These were much in demand from the engineering and food-processing firms in Trafford Park and across the north west.

One of these companies was the Manchester Oil Refinery. They had a fleet of class B tank wagons painted in a distinctive green livery. Here are two of the later anchor-mounted type seen in 1965; both of these have lagging and steam heating coils fitted.

 

In the 1960s, Manchester Oil Refinery was later taken over by Lobitos (who had a refinery at Stanlow) and subsequently merged with Burmah and Castrol.

There's a photo here showing a Manchester Oil Refinery tank, sandwiched between two in a combined Lobitos / MOR livery; this one isn't lagged:

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/lobitos-ellesmere-port-14t-tank-wagon-127-stanlow-c1972-r3l-similar-to-abk-502-part-of-tank-wagons-120-4-also-visible.html

 

One day I'm going to build a proper model of a Manchester Oil Refinery tank wagon for my layout, but in the meantime I couldn't resist a cheap and quick substitute.

Many years ago, Meccano/Hornby produced O gauge tinplate models of these wagons, and I picked up a rough one on ebay for £7.50. For its time, it's actually not a bad representation, and the livery is surprisingly close to the prototype too.

With some oddments from the bits box that weren't good enough for a proper model, I have today replaced the wheels, bearings and couplings. Otherwise I've left it as received.

Here it is coupled up to a Dapol Esso tank wagon which is another recent purchase and would also have been at home in Trafford Park:

 

 

 

 

Is Corn Products a descendant of Manchester Oil Refinery? Having read the post, I see that it wasn't.
In the mid 70s when I and Mike/Coachbogie prowled 'The Park', these same Esso tanks were in the sidings near to the tank farm.
They shared track space with 'Airfix' tank wagons. I wish I'd taken more shots of wagons in those days. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Sandhole

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

ISTR that Meteor used to do a 14T tank as did/do Powsides but it might be worth hanging on for the new Dapol anchor mounted ones announced a while back.

Ray.

Yes, Many thanks, I’ve got my eye on one of them for my proper model of a Manchester Oil Refinery wagon. 

Unlike the current Dapol tanks, it looks like the anchor mounted ones will actually be made in two sizes for class A and B. 

Cheers,

Mol

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Sandhole said:

Is Corn Products a descendant of Manchester Oil Refinery? Having read the post, I see that it wasn't.
In the mid 70s when I and Mike/Coachbogie prowled 'The Park', these same Esso tanks were in the sidings near to the tank farm.
They shared track space with 'Airfix' tank wagons. I wish I'd taken more shots of wagons in those days. 

Corn Products was separate, they had some very interesting tank wagons themselves including some large 6-wheelers. 

Southern Cotton Oil (later Kraft Foods) and CWS Margarine works in Irlam were two other edible oil firms on the MSC that had fleets of wagons. 

 

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Sandhole said:

In the mid 70s when I and Mike/Coachbogie prowled 'The Park', these same Esso tanks were in the sidings near to the tank farm.
They shared track space with 'Airfix' tank wagons. I wish I'd taken more shots of wagons in those days. 

 

As https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essotraffordpark    Dapol have reproduced some of these in 7mm including 1855 which went down to Cardiff docks before moving to Falmouth Docks for internal use. 

 

Paul

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, hmrspaul said:

 

As https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essotraffordpark    Dapol have reproduced some of these in 7mm including 1855 which went down to Cardiff docks before moving to Falmouth Docks for internal use. 

 

Paul

Many thanks Paul, another fine selection of photos.

As well as the Dapol Esso tank, I have bought a DJ Parkins kit for one of the vacuum-braked 35t GLW tanks, but that is destined for modification into a BR Creosote tank which were filled at LTD Cadishead in the 1960s.

I'll add to this thread as the various projects move forward. I have made more progress on two more wagons this evening and am determined to get them both finished over the BH weekend and will post updates here.

Best Regards,

Mol

[Sandhole]

19 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

 

As https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essotraffordpark    Dapol have reproduced some of these in 7mm including 1855 which went down to Cardiff docks before moving to Falmouth Docks for internal use. 

 

Paul

Thank you for posting that page,
You took the shots I wish I'd done. Those bring back a lot of memories.
Here's their loco. Sorry for the quality.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Sandhole

[Sandhole]

20 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Corn Products was separate, they had some very interesting tank wagons themselves including some large 6-wheelers. 

Southern Cotton Oil (later Kraft Foods) and CWS Margarine works in Irlam were two other edible oil firms on the MSC that had fleets of wagons. 

 

Thanks Mol.
Yes, I have a couple of pictures of the 6-wheelers. 
You are right, they were very impressive vehicles built to passenger stock standards.
Regards,
Chris.