Transpennine Class 68 & Mark 5 Stock (not being) taken out of Service

[charliepetty]

According to reliable information, Transpennine have had enough of the mounting issues regarding the CAF built Mark 5 coaches,.  They have also lost a court case re Noise Pollution in Scarborough.

 

IF this information is correct, they will be withdrawn in 4 weeks  time (Mid February).

 

Anyone out there who knows more ?????????????

 

In other words 'The buffers have fallen off this project'

[4630]

The rumour was put to another ‘reliable source’ earlier this morning on the WNXX rail forum and were described as ‘completely wrong’. 
 

The source also added...’Spoke yesterday to the ROSCO and TPE and both confirm plans are underway to increase use as soon as conditions allow.’

 

Make of that what you will. 

[Bomag]

Given current traffic flows they have enough stock to run services without these. No point in wasting time in fixing them 'in service'. As for Scarborough it may help if they took more effort having  the 68 at the right end (at the blocks).

 

If all goes well there may be traffic to need the extra capacity over the Summer.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Bomag

[sir douglas]

 

all i can find is that the locals are angry at the noise and light at night coming from the Seamer depot

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/18288126.noisy-train-depot-making-lives-misery/

Edited January 14, 2021 by sir douglas

[TravisM]

Sounds like another case of “NIMBY” though i will have say that Class 68’s have a wonderful throaty roar.

[APOLLO]

These locos are indeed very noisy when idling, why is that ?

 

Brit15

[Hobby]

45 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Sounds like another case of “NIMBY” 

 

The depot only opened in 2019, so I don't think so...

[DY444]

2 hours ago, charliepetty said:

According to reliable information, Transpennine have had enough of the mounting issues regarding the CAF built Mark 5 coaches,.  They have also lost a court case re Noise Pollution in Scarborough.

 

IF this information is correct, they will be withdrawn in 4 weeks  time (Mid February).

 

Anyone out there who knows more ?????????????

 

I guess you have to decide which reliable sources are actually reliable.  A usually very reliable source says this rumour has no basis at all and that the most likely scenario in the coming months is for 68+Mk5 usage to increase. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by DY444

[spamcan61]

57 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Sounds like another case of “NIMBY” though i will have say that Class 68’s have a wonderful throaty roar.

Probably not that wonderful at 04:30 a.m.

[russ p]

They aren't too bad until the eth is switched on then the engine revs increase quite substantially. 

When they were on the anglia short set they didn't like the loco on the stops at Norwich having it on .

Because of noise but that wasn't always possible as I used to like to try and ballance fuel use between the two locos 

[Wheatley]

They can stick as much soundproofing as they like on the depot, the vibration coming from these things at low idle is massive.  Coming off the Harrogate trains in York in the morning you could feel the 68 sat in platform 2 while you were walking down platform 8. I'd be complaining if these were parked outide my house all night. 

[peteskitchen]

19 hours ago, Wheatley said:

They can stick as much soundproofing as they like on the depot, the vibration coming from these things at low idle is massive.  Coming off the Harrogate trains in York in the morning you could feel the 68 sat in platform 2 while you were walking down platform 8. I'd be complaining if these were parked outide my house all night. 

Reminiscent of Metrovic Cobos
 I wonder of there's a case to make the manufacturer change the engine mounts for something more shock absorbing. That sort of undamped heavy vibration fatigues all sorts of things in the long run. 

[MarkC]

Basis russ p's comments, is it actually engine vibration or resonance in the exhausts? That can create all sorts of vibration issues. I've been on a ship where the engines in question were smooth as silk, but the noise from the funnel was horrendous. (Reason was that the silencer internals had rotted away; all were renewed at the next docking).

 

Mark

[31A]

On 14/01/2021 at 13:25, Bomag said:

 As for Scarborough it may help if they took more effort having  the 68 at the right end (at the blocks).

 

 

 

Not very pleasant if you're in Scarborough station waiting for the doors to be released so you can board, and one has been left idling at the block end for the whole of the layover!

 

[keefer]

are the engines on the 68s those which can only be completely shut-down 2-3 times before they require a works strip-down/rebuild?

If a train shore supply were fitted in the depot, it would at least provide the ETH to the coaches (instead of the loco) - could that also be used for a 'warm' shut-down of the loco?. 

I'm not very au-fait with these new locos which although very well-specced, seem to be rather 'delicate' at times! 

[russ p]

14 minutes ago, keefer said:

are the engines on the 68s those which can only be completely shut-down 2-3 times before they require a works strip-down/rebuild?

If a train shore supply were fitted in the depot, it would at least provide the ETH to the coaches (instead of the loco) - could that also be used for a 'warm' shut-down of the loco?. 

I'm not very au-fait with these new locos which although very well-specced, seem to be rather 'delicate' at times! 

 

No they are proper non primadonna units !

You can select what voslloh call night guard where if the temperature or battery volts drop it starts itself up..... when we first got them I selected this at Norwich.  Yes it starts up then once its warm goes into loadbank mode running the engine against the dynamic brake grids . It sounds fantastic but the local residents weren't impressed at 3am so we don't use this option unless its really cold

[D826]

43 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Not very pleasant if you're in Scarborough station waiting for the doors to be released so you can board, and one has been left idling at the block end for the whole of the layover!

 

 One diesel loco ticking over.....pheeewwww  .....Should have tried Marylebone 1970 - 1992 ish - inhaling blue diesel fumes from idling 115s. 3 or 4 of em belching out blue smoke like a Trabant on speed.

 

Always needed a couple of paracetamol by the time I got back to Aylesbury !

 

  When men were men and diesel was an expectorant ! (I have my tongue firmly in my cheek).

 

Cheers

Matt

[31A]

10 minutes ago, D826 said:

 One diesel loco ticking over.....pheeewwww  .....Should have tried Marylebone 1970 - 1992 ish - inhaling blue diesel fumes from idling 115s. 3 or 4 of em belching out blue smoke like a Trabant on speed.

 

Always needed a couple of paracetamol by the time I got back to Aylesbury !

 

  When men were men and diesel was an expectorant ! (I have my tongue firmly in my cheek).

 

Cheers

Matt

 

Yes mate been there done that, including Deltics at The Cross in my distant memory, but the 68 under the roof at Scarb (which isn't a very big station and has a low overall roof) was really annoying.  Perhaps I'm getting old.  I don't know why they need to keep them idling while the coaches are locked, something to do with providing the "hotel power" I believe, but it isn't necessary with 185s (or most other modern trains) and surely shouldn't be necessary in this day and age.  "Normals" shouldn't be subjected to that kind of thing in this day and age, it just makes rail travel more user unfriendly.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was very pleased to see loco hauled trains back again and especially through York where I live; the locos are impressive to view and and the coaches are comfortable to ride in (even if the a suspension is a bit lively).

 

 

[keefer]

3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

No they are proper non primadonna units !

You can select what voslloh call night guard where if the temperature or battery volts drop it starts itself up..... when we first got them I selected this at Norwich.  Yes it starts up then once its warm goes into loadbank mode running the engine against the dynamic brake grids . It sounds fantastic but the local residents weren't impressed at 3am so we don't use this option unless its really cold

cheers russ,

i might have got them mixed up with some other modern stuff where a complete (i.e. normal switched-off) shut-down takes hundreds of hours off the maintenance total and do it more than 3 times means a major works visit

[Zomboid]

13 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Not very pleasant if you're in Scarborough station waiting for the doors to be released so you can board, and one has been left idling at the block end for the whole of the layover!

 

I thought the "right" end for the locos was the west end of the train, ie not at the blocks in Scarborough.

 

If it's a major problem they could always do what they did at Penzance with HSTs and not allow them under the roof. Two platforms don't go into it anyway.

[31A]

1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

I thought the "right" end for the locos was the west end of the train, ie not at the blocks in Scarborough.

 

If it's a major problem they could always do what they did at Penzance with HSTs and not allow them under the roof. Two platforms don't go into it anyway.

 

In watching them at York (pre Pandemic), I couldn't work out whether there was a "right" end!

 

They could indeed use one of the 'outdoor' platforms.  The last day I was at Scarborough, last February, the timetabled layover was quite long; 40 or 50 minutes I think, and I turned up about 20 minutes before the train was due out but not allowed to board until the crew turned up which seems to be normal at Scarborough (although not always the case at other stations) which was about 5 minutes before departure.  Its was quite painful sitting there listening to the loco roaring away under the roof, you couldn't hear yourself think.  If the train had been the other way round it would have been much less of a problem, but apart from anything else it doesn't do much for the green credentials of the railways to see and hear all that fuel being wasted.  Goodness knows what the "normals" must make of it!

 

[cheesysmith]

Does anyone know the ETH rating of the Mk5 sets used by TPE?

 

IIRC the ETH works out at 100hp for 100 ETH. This is a rough figure from the hp lost from a 47 with ETH switched on (the figure varies depending on the actual ETH load).

 

Even the worse big diesel engine used on the railway has a fuel consumption of approx 230g/kWh (the GM 710). So every 6 ETH would equal 4kwh (these figures are approx and rounded off, but would give you a idea of the fuel used leaving them idling each time).

 

Is it more likely the prolonged idling is to make sure the coaches computers don't shut down and need rebooting? Having heard of the problems with CAF trains, sound probable it is to avoid faults far from home base.

[Zomboid]

4 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

Even the worse big diesel engine used on the railway has a fuel consumption of approx 230g/kWh (the GM 710).

I don't know about the 68s, but GM engines I believe were well known for their high fuel consumption. That's probably not a representative figure for anything other than a GM710.

[cheesysmith]

That's the point. The fuel consumption will be less than that (the best was the big lump in the class60 at 189). If you take the figure and half it, it would be close to what is being used on a already warm set. The worse figure would be for a cold set just coming into service.

[4630]

30 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

In watching them at York (pre Pandemic), I couldn't work out whether there was a "right" end!

 

 

That accords with my observations too around Huddersfield since the 68s and Mark5s were introduced to passenger service (almost 18 months ago!). 
 

The orientation of the loco is down to the daily diagrams that the sets work, plus in the earlier days the random element of set/loco technical issues during a diagram, which occasionally saw a working caped, usually at Manchester Victoria, and sent ECS to Longsight.

 

Of course, if a 68 was on the west end at Scarborough (ie not under the roof) it would be under the roof once it arrived at Liverpool Lime Street.