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Transpennine Class 68 & Mark 5 Stock (not being) taken out of Service


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Man up Greta thunder bergs !

 

this is a train modelling site ... we are supposed to like the roar of trains ... unless you live by Scarborough station of course ...

 

my hearing deficiency at low HZ is all due to Paxman Valentas and I’m great full ..

 

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2 hours ago, Legend said:

Are we all becoming a bit  too sensitive do you think? I can remember being at a caravan Park on the cliff at Berwick Upon Tweed  and every night hearing the drone of Deltics on the sleepers, late night trains anyway . The residents of the local housing estate must just have got used to it . That said I’ve only heard Class 68s on video . Are they noisier than a Deltic? 

I know that site - even the 91s could be heard pulling away :D

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I don't follow the current railway scene to any great extent, but this topic caught my eye, I looked up the Class 68 and saw that most were named after RN warships.

 

It is said that those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. The Class 68's are clearly causing trouble of one sort or another, after the Class 41(D6XX), 42 & 43 and the troubles that the WR had with the Class 50's when they were given the names of warships perhaps it is history repeating itself again. :scratchhead::D

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1 hour ago, Tankerman said:

 

 

It is said that those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. The Class 68's are clearly causing trouble of one sort or another...


I don’t believe that’s actually the case.

 

My understanding is that the 68s are, for the most part, reliable.  The issues have predominantly been with the CAF built Mark5 coaching stock.  They’ve been varied and numerous.  Added to which CAF, by all accounts, has not been up the mark in resolving the issues. 

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To correct a typo.
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The problem is not trains going past so the argument that "the railway was there first" is irrelevent, this isn't Nimbyism. The issue is engines idling loudly in the wee small hours where there was never a depot before, the new siding (because that's all it is) is south of the turntable on what used to be Appletons oil sidings. 

 

As far as I can work out the depot has noise attenuation screening on the Seamer Rd side, and the noise is masked from the houses on that side by industrial and retail buildings. On the other side are more industrial units and the football ground. But the depot is in a valley, and the complainants (or at least the ones with their photos in the local rag) are on the other side if the valley from the depot, and above it on the hillside. Sound carries across a valley especially if there is no screening on that side. 

 

As far as I am aware there have been no similar complaints from Leeman Rd in York. The fuelling point there is fully screened on both sides and movements take place throughout the night. The 68s were in and out of there in 2019/20 as they were stabled there for route learning.

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On 15/01/2021 at 18:33, MarkC said:

Basis russ p's comments, is it actually engine vibration or resonance in the exhausts? That can create all sorts of vibration issues. I've been on a ship where the engines in question were smooth as silk, but the noise from the funnel was horrendous. (Reason was that the silencer internals had rotted away; all were renewed at the next docking).

 

Mark

 

Having heard these things, I was wondering whether they actually do have silencers

 

On 15/01/2021 at 21:37, D826 said:

 One diesel loco ticking over.....pheeewwww  .....Should have tried Marylebone 1970 - 1992 ish - inhaling blue diesel fumes from idling 115s. 3 or 4 of em belching out blue smoke like a Trabant on speed.

 

Have you actually heard a 68 though? They're enough to make even a Deltic sound quiet!

 

I've been on the platform at Waverley waiting for my train when a 68s been in waiting to depart with an earlier service, and the noise has actually been painful. So what ordinary passengers must make of having to put up with these things!

 

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

I know that site - even the 91s could be heard pulling away :D

 

Haha, yes. I remember the first time I saw a 91, coming into Newcastle. I'd always thought electric trains were supposed to be quiet, then this thing came roaring in like a demented vacuum cleaner

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The local utilities firm has decided it needs a generator running tonight on the water works (polite name) behind the house.

 

Mrs W is not best pleased, there is a low droning noise even with the windows shut - how she would react to it being a nightly thing I don't know.

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18 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 there is a low droning noise even with the windows shut - how she would react to it being a nightly thing I don't know.

 

A low droning noise? Thankfully they've not hired in a 68 then :jester:

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I'm very pleased I got to sample them on the Norwich to Lowestoft shuttles, front coach window open, head firmly outside. What a racket. They're the first new build traction in decades that have interested me. 

Regarding complaints, would it be the cheaper, as a first course of action, to further soundproof the stabling/refuelling facility at Scarborough  rather than altering a full fleet of locomotives? 

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3 hours ago, Wheatley said:

 

 

As far as I am aware there have been no similar complaints from Leeman Rd in York. The fuelling point there is fully screened on both sides and movements take place throughout the night. The 68s were in and out of there in 2019/20 as they were stabled there for route learning.

I live in York and I believe I have seen complaints but cannot find the subject in the archive of the York Press. Once again the Siemens depot was newly built in an area converted from railway use to new housing. The 185s with their propulsion spread along the train are relatively quiet. The problem seems to have been solved, I don't know if any 68s lay over at that depot these days. 

 

In York the 68s sit at the Scarborough end of platform 4 which is relatively high up - they go straight over the river bridge. Now that bridge has a much improved walkway and cycle route these things idling are very noticeable, and even more noticeable when they move off with noise right along the river walk. Like others have said the concept that a modern piece of motive power is so noisy is not acceptable. And I've run into trouble already with the gricers (one living in the USA) whom think the roar of a diesel is pleasant. 

 

Yes, it is fun to hear Class 20s triple headed lifting a heavy rail train, or the 60s hauling 4K tons of steel, but these aren't 21st century motive power. 

 

Paul

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16 hours ago, MarkC said:

I know that site - even the 91s could be heard pulling away :D


yeah I think it’s now a Haven sight . Back in 79 when I first visited though it was the Drone of Deltics and scream of Valentas accelerating away from Berwick on their way north .  It was just after the Penmanshiel tunnel collapse when they built the deviation .  You could still see Deltics on the Plymouth train , some locals and the sleepers . 
happy days .  Yes latterly , I think I was there three years ago , you could hear the thrum of 91s . No experience of an IET on the route yet . 

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its not just the volume but also the frequency of the noise - some frequencies carry worse, and for sure some frequencies can REALLY grate - in our last house BT installed a street cabinet outside our home.  During day nothing to be heard but at night the buzz (from an internal fan we think) drove us nuts - just the sort of noise that really irritated and installing noise deadening blinds etc didn't work.  Couldn't get anything done about it - in end we moved house in part to get away from it.  So i do have sympathy for those affected, particularly if the noise wasn't there when they bought their homes.

M

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On 16/01/2021 at 19:55, Hobby said:

Also it's likely to affect the value of your house, would you accept that... 

 

In answer to Legend's post, no we are not. 

 

Times move on and there is really no excuse to have such noise pollution these days.

 

 

 

Quite honestly the best sounding ic engine was the Autounion GP cars of the late 30's, any others pale into insignificance! 

Yet road noise and the continuous roar of tyres barely get a mention.  In my humble, if you move into a house next to operational railway land, you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

Not saying modern traction shouldn't be designed to higher standards.  However, we do live in a society where everything is someone else's fault.  Maybe park up some Sulzer, EE, Maybach, Paxman traction for comparison. 

 

I'd be interested in genuine comparative Leq noise levels of different traction against ambient levels.

 

Cheers

 

Matt

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4 minutes ago, D826 said:

Yet road noise and the continuous roar of tyres barely get a mention.  

Weaponess Valley Road and Seamer Road are hardly the M62. Maybe the odd taxi at 4am but that's about it. Just that and the 85 litre 3800hp marine engine throbbing away at the bottom of the hill. 

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9 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Weaponess Valley Road and Seamer Road are hardly the M62. Maybe the odd taxi at 4am but that's about it. Just that and the 85 litre 3800hp marine engine throbbing away at the bottom of the hill. 

Not so very different from the Deltic motors origins really then.  Take the point about road noise in Scarborough mind.  

 

Best regards

 

Matt W

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If they don't have ETH switched on they really aren't too bad I've spent today in close proximity to two that were idling and not really intrusive at all.

Would be preferable having some other arrangements at Scarborough such as shore supplies and no ETH on until the train is in the station  rather than modifying the silencer. 

They already have quite big silencers as it is

I remember back in the early 80s when I volunteered on the moors complaints about hymek 7029 and noise.  That had its silencer removed and close up wasn't too bad but from a distance was pretty noisey

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I’m suppose it all comes down to what we are used to. And you are correct I wouldn’t like a continual engine hum or roar at the bottom of my road . Standards are changing though, and that’s a good thing . Relating this to aircraft noise you can barely hear an A320 as it goes overhead , but back in the 60s you knew when a Trident , 1-11 or Dan Air Comet went over because the window panes shook . But these were different times 

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2 hours ago, Legend said:

I’m suppose it all comes down to what we are used to. And you are correct I wouldn’t like a continual engine hum or roar at the bottom of my road . Standards are changing though, and that’s a good thing . Relating this to aircraft noise you can barely hear an A320 as it goes overhead , but back in the 60s you knew when a Trident , 1-11 or Dan Air Comet went over because the window panes shook . But these were different times 

 

I was in London last week and a 747-200 freighter flew over that was pretty loud. I quite liked it actually! 

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5 hours ago, D826 said:

Yet road noise and the continuous roar of tyres barely get a mention.  In my humble, if you move into a house next to operational railway land, you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

The noise of a road traffic comes nowhere near that of 68s, even a Motorway, and particularly a night which is what the issue is.

Also, the point being made is that this is a new depot, and also new traction, which is much noisier than previous, both of which have arrived after the residents complaining, so what choice did they have?

 

5 hours ago, D826 said:

Not so very different from the Deltic motors origins really then.  Take the point about road noise in Scarborough mind

 

Well, I did make earlier comment in comparison with a Deltic, as well as my experience of being on a platform with a 68 in.

I remember being on the platform at Newcastle between a pair of Deltics, both running - I certainly wouldn't be anywhere near a pair of 68s thats running.

I am, btw, very familiar with how noisey Deltics were, I was on all but two of them, and as secondman operating the steam heat boiler, that included being inside them as well.

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16 hours ago, D826 said:

Yet road noise and the continuous roar of tyres barely get a mention.  In my humble, if you move into a house next to operational railway land, you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

The issue at Scarborough is that the advent of Class 68 has greatly increased the noise level, compared to previously, and therefore the residents' concern is understandable.  And in most places road noise is reduced at night, next to a railway depot the opposite is often the case !

 

 

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I was watching the Crewe Railcam this morning and 68028 came through on a set of Mk5's as a mileage accumulation run. Somehow I cannot imagine they would waste time getting mileage iin if they were about to pull the plug on them

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10 minutes ago, Ed-farms said:

I was watching the Crewe Railcam this morning and 68028 came through on a set of Mk5's as a mileage accumulation run. Somehow I cannot imagine they would waste time getting mileage iin if they were about to pull the plug on them

 

As I said earlier this story is supposed to be a complete fabrication 

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1 minute ago, russ p said:

 

As I said earlier this story is supposed to be a complete fabrication 

But even you're not sure.

 

However, unless there is a proper safety concern I cannot see TPE giving up on the MK5s unless they believe they now have too much stock on their hands and are looking to save money (under pressure from paymaster HM Treasury).

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