Mol's MSC Layout: "The Boysnope Bump"

[Mol_PMB]

I am currently fitting transverse braces to the board

[Mol_PMB]

The main board structure is now complete with all the transverse ribs added underneath, and provision for cabling through them. 

[Mol_PMB]

I have also added some diagonal braces at the front where the canal bank will be. These should help keep the water level horizontal. 

I haven’t yet decided how to do the slope at the front. I have polystyrene blocks, old-school chickenwire with newspaper strips soaked in plaster, or it could just be a thin sheet of ply screwed to the diagonals. The latter might be too smooth. 

[doilum]

Cat food boxes and newspaper with copious amounts of PVA. Sets as solid as fibreglass.

[Sweet pea]

The baseboard should be quite sturdy now, nice carpentry.

[Mol_PMB]

I had time to make a mini board to put a headshunt on while I play with trackplan ideas. 

 

I think it’s going to be much easier to optimise the trackplan in full size. 

 

I need to give some of these lengths of track a wash and a bit of a fettle, but I think they’ll be OK. 

 

Now, I wonder whether I have any rail joiners? That might be a priority to buy! 

[Mol_PMB]

I have been having a good play with the bits of track. Although not 100% precise, this definitely gives more insight into the eventual feel of the layout.

 

This is one of the options I had drawn on CAD. It's way too busy, almost every inch of the board is covered in rails. That's not what I'm after at all.

This option with only one kick-back siding isn't quite so bad, at least there's a bit of space. The siding could lead to a shed or loading/unloading facility, or just into weeds.

 

Going to the opposite extreme, this is the simple plan but pushed to the left until the sidings are the minimum for an Inglenook assuming any 4-wheel wagon can be used (some are longer than others). For Inglenook rules it doesn't actually need the full length of the headshunt because the king points have moved along. This has a completely different feel, it almost feels like half track and half space on the top level. And of course the canal bank along the front is a good percentage of scenery in the view too. Now I am wondering what to put in all that space in the far corner!

 

Now with the simple layout, my preference is to represent Morgan Wallwork Boundary Sawmills at Irlam, as shown in the maps and photo below. The two maps below show the site in the 1930s (left, before the sawmills opened) and in the 1960s  (right) which is the period I would be modelling. The sawmills was built in the 1950s and an extra loop was added to the existing passing loop to serve it. I've only got room for the northern end of the loops which form the required Inglenook arrangement.

The sawmill wall, sheds and stacks of timber would be ideal for a low-relief backscene.

Part of the problem with having made a load of space in the back corner of the layout is that there isn't a great deal to actually put there! The ground rises a bit (just visible in the photo and also shown on the map) so there would be some weed-strewn banks and some more low-relief sheds.

My mind got to thinking about the sharply curved siding just to the north of this location, seen in the older map. Studying a variety of earlier maps I believe it was put in to supply building materials for the housing estate.

Could I apply for a modellers licence and put that siding in? Physically it's just about possible though the lengths are tight. A more sharply curved point would help. This wouldn't be part of the Inglenook challenge (indeed it might not even be operational, just heavily overgrown) but could put some interest in that corner that would be different from more sawmill sheds.

Or I could imagine that it has been adopted by the sawmill and is used for a special purpose such as the delivery of creosote. The siding could go through a gate in the boundary wall.

 

I will give it some more thought over the next few days!

 

P.S. I'm sure I don't have enough height to put the pylon in the corner there, though it would be an interesting modelling challenge! Maybe a smaller one?

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Mol_PMB
added PS

[woodenhead]

The kickback only works if you're going to have two locos - something to shunt the kickback and your train engine.

 

I like the final image with the overgrown or lesser used siding curving away.

 

The only other suggestion I might have and it's not of real use - I reckon you'd get a nice little industrial spur off a US shortline in HO there, couple of Geeps or a switcher.  Maybe that's my own imagination taking the better of me.

[Mol_PMB]

I like US shortlines too, but I’m wedded to 7mm scale and there certainly isn’t space for that in 7mm here! 

 

Other options for the curving siding could be:

- abandoned, disconnected, the point doesn’t have to fit

- if I go with the sector plate fiddle yard, it could feed off that without a point

 

I am definitely going to build some tar/creosote tanks (appropriate for Lancashire Tar Distillers a little further along the canal) and I do fancy having a way to deliver creosote to the sawmills. 

 

I simplified the plan again and got out a few trucks to check the siding lengths for 3 wagons in each of the shorter ones. Looks about right with these wagons. 

[woodenhead]

A sector plate sounds like a good plan

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

A sector plate sounds like a good plan

This plan I drew a few days ago shows the sector plate concept, though with a more complex layout on the scenic side. But you can see how the rear track of the sector plate could feed the curving siding idea. 

[Mol_PMB]

12 hours ago, Wrenn said:

The baseboard should be quite sturdy now, nice carpentry.

Thanks!

I have weighed the main board (on my kitchen scales!) and it comes out as 4.4kg (just under 10lbs). 

Of course track and scenery will add to that, but I’m pleased that the carpentry has come in under 5kg. With the added bracing it is pretty rigid too. 

[Mol_PMB]

Here is a dimensionally accurate plan for the Morgan Wallwork sawmills concept with the main sidings set to the minimum length for the Inglenook challenge.

There's a low-relief shed on the backscene, and just the corner of another one at the left hand end. Between them will be stacks of timber and space for an imaginary crane to unload timber from wagons over the wall (as in reality)

I have added a sharply curved siding served off the sector plate, which goes through a gate in the fence with space for a wagon to be parked. As discussed above this needs a bit of modellers licence - there was really a curved siding here but it was removed before the sawmills were built. In my imagination it has stayed in place and is used to serve a timber creosoting plant. That gives me an excuse to shunt tank wagons (which prototypically would have passed this location loaded with tar and tar products such as creosote). I think I would model the bit outside the fence as very green and weedy.

To me, this still feels reasonably spacious. There's room for a couple of birch trees in the back corner, and a bit of open space towards the middle rear as well which could be scrubby waste ground or perhaps adjust the fence position and model more behind it - perhaps stacks of oil drums or a land tank. 

 

[Sandhole]

On 24/01/2021 at 15:05, Mol_PMB said:

I think it is at Ellesmere Port museum now. Or there is a very similar one there. 

I think the MSC had at least four Toads converted to breakdown equipment vans. 

They also had several former passenger coaches for various uses including the cashier’s train for paying the wages. 

They would certainly make interesting side projects!

 

I remember the green ex-Midland? pay coach being hauled by one of the 'Castles.'
I have run with the idea for my fictitious Manchester Steel layout.
My coach is a GWR Churchward Saloon. I found the Tony Hammond sides and the donor PC Models toplight kit at a great little exhibition outside Gloucester.
A D&S Midland ballast brake van, is part of my PW train.

[Mol_PMB]

Yes, there were three iterations of the Cashier's coach, all 6-wheel or 4-wheel vehicles (the second one was Midland, the final one was a converted horsebox)

There were also some bogie coaches which I think were used as portable mess-rooms for engineering and maintenance work. 

[Sandhole]

26 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Yes, there were three iterations of the Cashier's coach, all 6-wheel or 4-wheel vehicles (the second one was Midland, the final one was a converted horsebox)

There were also some bogie coaches which I think were used as portable mess-rooms for engineering and maintenance work. 

Was the bogie I remember.

[Marshall5]

Whilst I was more interested in the locos I took several photos of rolling stock during the previously mentioned WRC railtour of the remaining MSC system in Feb.1972.  The first photo is of Mode Wheel workshops where the last 2 steam locos MSC No 32 Gothenburg and No 70 had been pulled out of store for us.  The second is of green painted Dock Labour Coach No3 (an ex LMS TO 7991/1926) purchased in 1960.  ISTR it was saved for preservation - maybe Dinting or ELR?  Pay coach No3, the former horsebox, was built at Earlestown in 1954 to an LNER design. A very similar kit is available from both D&S and Parkside. It went into preservation in 1983 at Steamport and is now at the Ribble Steam Rly.  Interestingly (to me anyway) it had an LMS bog despite being built by BR to an LNER design!

Cheers,

Ray.

[Mol_PMB]

Ray, Vvery many thanks for the photos and information. Those shots are very helpful - I'm currently building one of the Hudswell Clarke diesels seen in your first photo.

I'd love to see any more photos from that trip.

 

I am sure that I will build one or more of the coaches in due course as they are an unusual feature of the MSC Railways. Many thanks for pointing out that Parkside make a kit for the LNER horsebox as I hadn't previously spotted that was a match. That could be a fairly quick win, and there's even a build thread here:

 

Cashiers' coach no.2 was a former Midland Railway 4-wheel brake coach, diagram 529 I think. I quite fancy modelling that and it wasn't replaced by no.3 until the end of 1965 so both would fit my 'mid-60s' period.

I think there must have been a 7mm scale kit for one of these as I have seen a complete one on ebay, but I can't find what has happened to the kit - perhaps it was in one of the ranges that has vanished? Might have been from 51L?

 

As well as the Dock Labour coaches (1, 2 and 3) the MSC Resident Engineers' Department also had some coaches. The first was a 4-wheel brake named 'Ranger' and the second arrived in 1965 and was a bogie vehicle previously numbered 27001 and was named 'Rover'. I have not seen photos of either of these in MSC but the latter is preserved and is a 'Porthole' BTK. However, there is a photo of an L&Y fireproof bogie coach in use by the MSC Resident Engineers' Department in 1965.

 

In the past I have built a model of a 'Porthole' BTK in 7mm scale, which was based on Ian Kirk parts and finished in blue/grey livery. I could build another of those!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marshall5]

As regards the ex horsebox I built the D&S etched brass kit as it was before Parkside brought out their Dia.5 kit.

Pay coach No3 was, of course, B.R. built but to the slightly later LNER Dia.9 (BR dia 2181) so there are minor differences between the kit and prototype but you'd have to be an expert to tell IMHO!

I've attached another couple of photos from the WRC tour.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Mol_PMB]

8 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

As regards the ex horsebox I built the D&S etched brass kit as it was before Parkside brought out their Dia.5 kit.

Pay coach No3 was, of course, B.R. built but to the slightly later LNER Dia.9 (BR dia 2181) so there are minor differences between the kit and prototype but you'd have to be an expert to tell IMHO!

I've attached another couple of photos from the WRC tour.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

Great photos! Many thanks again, Ray.

I have a Judith Edge kit for the Sentinel on the shelf, but I'm not going to let myself start it until I've finished the somewhat challenging Hudswell Clarke.

 

Edit:

I do like etched kits and have built at least one D&S kit in the past. But I think the MSC modified their horsebox quite heavily and I think it would be easier to modify the plastic kit than the etched one.

There are some colour photos of the horsebox here:

http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/ws-179.html

Edited January 26, 2021 by Mol_PMB
added final paragraph

[Sandhole]

12 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

Whilst I was more interested in the locos I took several photos of rolling stock during the previously mentioned WRC railtour of the remaining MSC system in Feb.1972.  The first photo is of Mode Wheel workshops where the last 2 steam locos MSC No 32 Gothenburg and No 70 had been pulled out of store for us.  The second is of green painted Dock Labour Coach No3 (an ex LMS TO 7991/1926) purchased in 1960.  ISTR it was saved for preservation - maybe Dinting or ELR?  Pay coach No3, the former horsebox, was built at Earlestown in 1954 to an LNER design. A very similar kit is available from both D&S and Parkside. It went into preservation in 1983 at Steamport and is now at the Ribble Steam Rly.  Interestingly (to me anyway) it had an LMS bog despite being built by BR to an LNER design!

Cheers,

Ray.

That's the coach I remember.

[Mol_PMB]

With dry weather today I decided to go out and get some exercise with a long walk, and to incorporate some MSC layout research and some train chat with @birdbath

The front of my layout will represent the bank of the ship canal, dropping down from track level to water level. It's nearly 6 feet long and while most of the canal bank is green I think it would be good to break up that length with a few features. So we walked a few miles on the south bank and photographed some features on the north bank opposite.

 

Hopefully some of these are things that can be represented on the model.

 

A bank slip. These seem to have been common through the history of the canal and in some places the railway was slewed away from the canal to avoid subsiding sections:

 

A navigation beacon. These are spaced all the way along the canal, mostly similar in style but with subtle differences. They are lit at night. I don't know what date these were installed, they might be too new for my mid-1960s period:

 

A culvert under the railway allowing a brook to feed into the canal. This one looks like it's had a complex history, originally brick-built and later patched up with tie rods and some concrete, which is itself now failing. Quite a little project in itself to model this:

Three pipe outlets in different styles. The first one is certainly too recent for me, but the middle one is older and the third one looks original (and miraculously levitating?)

 

Some long-abandoned structure falling apart and now making a perch for a group of cormorants. While a nice little cameo, I suspect that back in the 1960s this would have been new, and the cormorants would have steered well clear of the polluted water:

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Some more progress on the board for my MSC shunting layout. Yesterday I stuck down the first piece of cork using an old tub of Evostick (the remains left over from the building of Guide Dog Bridge just down the road). It seems to have stuck well and stayed flat, so I have now laid the second piece. I’ll hopefully do the third piece tomorrow. 

 

Having read many threads about how to fix down the track, I think I’ll go with Copydex. Just need to buy some now, I hope it’s an essential item! Assuming there’s none of that to be scrounged nearby...

 

[woodenhead]

At least having them in a big tub means you'll never lose your marbles. 

[Ruston]

Did you go anywhere near the partially sunken concrete barges on your walk?