New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits - EM B7 Prototype - First Look

[Wayne Kinney]

Just now, Gilbert said:

Sorry....

Me to

[Gilbert]

Just now, Wayne Kinney said:

Party on Garth...

Top class...now just sort out some slightly shorter points and we'll all be happy!

[Wayne Kinney]

Just now, Gilbert said:

Top class...now just sort out some slightly shorter points and we'll all be happy!

I hear a bohemian rhapsody moment coming on

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

You could buy them direct from Wayne……..

 

Keith

 

Whilst I have nothing against Wayne (or him making a bigger bottom line profit) it's slightly more complicated though for a couple of reasons;

Firstly, living in Spain as I do, just recently, buying from the UK has become a tad more involved for some reason I can' quite put my finger on!, and it might save Wayne a bit of hassle and me a whole load of grief if he didn't sell them direct, and secondly, I needed a stock up of various items from the EMGS stores, so adding a few of Wayne's kits into the mix was fairly straightforward.

Altruistically, I'm trying to support as many parts of the hobby as I can!

 

Mike.

 

[Godders]

Late on Saturday morning the postman handed me a largish box.

I was excited to get it and took it through to my desk for examination.

I have been waiting, with baited breath for the 00-SF version.

I believe that I was the last (lucky) person to be given a test kit of the:

§  B7 left hand standard turnout kit, OO-SF with code 75 Bullhead rail.

The parts of the kit are clearly displayed in the packaging.

I opened the kit package and duly read the instructions, several times.

Only then did I arrange the pieces, for photographing, on my desk.

I will list them as per the instruction leaflet:

·         Turnout Base

·         Cast Crossing ‘V’ (frog)

·         Code 75 rail

o   2 stock rails

o   2 switch blades

o   1 rail, for cutting to form:

§  2 check rails and

§  2 heel rails

·         1 Tie Bar

I displayed the pdf of the turnout, on my PC.

https://www.britishfinescale.com/v/vspfiles/pdftemplates/00/Standard/B7/00_B7_TEMPLATE_A3.pdf

I also displayed a Templot template of a 00-SF B7 left hand turnout.

I measured the lengths of the check rails and duly cut 2 to 52mm, the rest of that rail I cut into 2 parts, to form the Heel Rails

At this stage I then prepared every rail end by cutting with Xuron cutters and filing square with a 6 inch file and slightly tapering the bottom flanges. Everything was deburred. This is to help the rails pass through the chairs.

I threaded every rail, one by one, into it’s final position, to be sure there were no, “tight spots”, there weren’t.

I found cutting the switch rails to length a bit tedious, but I wanted to get it just right and this required a little bit of trial and error because it also needs the Tie Bar to be in place.

The Tie Bar itself caused me a little confusion. I was not initially aware that:

a.     It has a top and a bottom. The top is distinguished by a chamfered section.

b.    It has tiny holes to accept the pins dropping from the switch rails.

In addition to this one of the pins was too long and interfered with the sliding action, not allowing full movement of the Tie Bar/Switch Rails.

This was easily cured by filing down the offending pin.

I assembled the whole turnout and tested with 3 randomly picked wagons and it worked beautifully, literally as smooth as silk.

At this point I realised I had not bent the check rail ends and it is not absolutely necessary for good running, as the chairs guide each end of the check rail, in a gentle arc.

However, I got the flare length, from the Templot template:

The Flare Length is 12mm and the End Gap is 1.58mm.

Even with the flares the check rails easily slide into position.

Please note at this point in time that I have not made any electrical connections, nor have I glued the “V” in place.

The reason for this is that I want, with Wayne’s permission, to see if I can curve the turnout so that the Turnout Road radius is 30 inches, my minimum radius.

I must say I am absolutely delighted with the kit. It is easily built and produces an incredibly strong, realistic looking turnout.

I have wondered for years why nobody has made a kit like this and my hat goes off to Wayne for so doing. He deserves every plaudit and hopefully lot’s of profit for his effort

 

Please forgive the quality and distribution of the photos. I've never uploaded photos before.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Godders
To correct an error; End Gap is 1.58mm not 2.08mm

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, Godders said:

the End Gap is 2.08mm

 

Hi Godders,

 

Looking good, but that 2.08mm end gap dimension is for Peco track. It's a bit excessive for finescale track and does rather look it in your photos. Here are the default flangeway end-gaps in Templot:

 

00-SF: 1.58mm

 

00-D0GAI: 1.78mm (Wayne's Standard 00)

 

00-BF: 1.88mm

 

00/H0: 2.08mm (Peco)

 

EM: 1.58mm

 

When bending the check rail flares in these kits, I suggest matching them to the flares on the wing rails in the crossing casting.

 

The above dimensions make the same flare angle as the prototype flare angle (end gap = 1.3/4" greater than the flangeway).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited June 27, 2021 by martin_wynne
bending note added

[Wayne Kinney]

Thanks Godders for taking the time to build and review the kit!

 

Yeah, the switch blade pin hitting the webbing of the base is my fault, I forgot to move the webbing 'outwards' to give clearance, like I have with the EM and 00 Gauge kits. I've already amended this for production, thanks for spotting the error!

 

Nice to see you wish to try curving the turnout, I would love to see your results. I just did a small test and posted pictures of this on the other thread here:

 

 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/160234-new-range-of-simple-to-assemble-00em-gauge-pointwork-kits/&do=findComment&comment=4490169

 

Thanks again for your time!

Edited June 27, 2021 by martin_wynne
link added

[Godders]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Godders,

 

Looking good, but that 2.08mm end gap dimension is for Peco track. It's a bit excessive for finescale track and does rather look it in your photos. Here are the default flangeway end-gaps in Templot:

 

00-SF: 1.58mm

 

00-D0GAI: 1.78mm (Wayne's Standard 00)

 

00-BF: 1.88mm

 

00/H0: 2.08mm (Peco)

 

EM: 1.58mm

 

When bending the check rail flares in these kits, I suggest matching them to the flares on the wing rails in the crossing casting.

 

The above dimensions make the same flare angle as the prototype flare angle (end gap = 1.3/4" greater than the flangeway).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Hi Martin,

 

you were perfectly correct. Thank you I have corrected the actual check rails (very easy with this kit) and amended my post.

 

cheers

 

Godders

[Godders]

24 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Thanks Godders for taking the time to build and review the kit!

 

Yeah, the switch blade pin hitting the webbing of the base is my fault, I forgot to move the webbing 'outwards' to give clearance, like I have with the EM and 00 Gauge kits. I've already amended this for production, thanks for spotting the error!

 

Nice to see you wish to try curving the turnout, I would love to see your results. I just did a small test and posted pictures of this on the other thread here.

 

Thanks again for your time!

 

Hi Wayne,

 

It was an absolute pleasure, your design is excellent. I have just corrected the Check Rail End Gap, following Martin's advice. Even the correction was easy, because of your construction method.

 

That's the beauty of having we peasants building the test kits, we are doing it to see if it can be built by the less skilled as opposed to experts.

 

However, having now built one, I feel I have become an expert. (Yeh, right)

 

I shall attempt to build a curved version, after absorbing the advice handed out by certain people, who are located West of the Severn. However it won't be today, the stress would be too much for a sensitive person such as myself.

 

Again Wayne I wish you the best of everything and hope Good Fortune smiles on you.

 

cheers

 

Godders

 

PS I was really impressed by the strength, alignment and look, of your chairs. It made threading rail so easy.

[Godders]

Hi Wayne,

 

I forgot to ask, when will the 00-SF be on general release, I need several.

 

Cheers

 

Godders

 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Godders said:

I shall attempt to build a curved version, after absorbing the advice handed out by certain people, who are located West of the Severn.

@Godders

 

Hi Godders,

 

If you are getting your information from West of the Severn, I think you should know that the "set" bend in the turnout-side stock rail, which is regarded as optional East of the Severn, is regarded as essential West of the Severn.

 

It will significantly improve the gauging through the switch, and the fit of the switch blades. It is probably essential if curving the turnout. The position of the "set" is marked on the Templot templates.

 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited June 27, 2021 by martin_wynne
image added

[Godders]

3 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

@Godders

 

Hi Godders,

 

If you are getting your information from West of the Severn, I think you should know that the "set" bend in the turnout-side stock rail, which is regarded as optional East of the Severn, is regarded as essential West of the Severn.

 

It will significantly improve the gauging through the switch, and the fit of the switch blades. It is probably essential if curving the turnout. The position of the "set" is marked on the Templot templates.

 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 Hi Martin,

 

How could you ever doubt that I would put a set in the rail.

 

However, my commission was to build the turnout kit, following the instructions, which I have done.

 

You may have noticed my comments about not gluing the Vee or soldering the electrical connexions. This is because I wanted to explore other paths after the initial assembly.

 

Oh ye of little faith

 

cheers

 

Godders

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I have a selection of EM kits on their way to me to have a play with, and one of the thoughts is to build a curved trailing crossover.

This poses a couple of questions;

Firstly, is it physically possible to even build a crossover between 1.00m and 1.05m curved tracks using these kits, and secondly; I'm bloody useless on computer type things and need a (Templot) template to print off and follow, so could any kind soul facilitate such a drawing I can easily download please?

 

Mike.

[RBAGE]

25 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I have a selection of EM kits on their way to me to have a play with, and one of the thoughts is to build a curved trailing crossover.

This poses a couple of questions;

Firstly, is it physically possible to even build a crossover between 1.00m and 1.05m curved tracks using these kits, and secondly; I'm bloody useless on computer type things and need a (Templot) template to print off and follow, so could any kind soul facilitate such a drawing I can easily download please?

 

Mike.

It's reassuring to learn that I'm not the only person in the world the is "bloody useless" on computer type things.

Sorry, that doesn't help you but it makes me feel better.

Maybe someone could set up a template service.

[AndyID]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I have a selection of EM kits on their way to me to have a play with, and one of the thoughts is to build a curved trailing crossover.

This poses a couple of questions;

Firstly, is it physically possible to even build a crossover between 1.00m and 1.05m curved tracks using these kits, and secondly; I'm bloody useless on computer type things and need a (Templot) template to print off and follow, so could any kind soul facilitate such a drawing I can easily download please?

 

Mike.

 

Hi Mike,

 

I'm assuming they are B7 turnouts. A crossover should be possible but only if you can tolerate a minimum radius of around 600 mm (24 inch). I suspect that's pushing it a bit for EM.

 

Cheers,

Andy

 

Edit: Those numbers are from Templot.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by AndyID
more info

[KeithHC]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I have a selection of EM kits on their way to me to have a play with, and one of the thoughts is to build a curved trailing crossover.

This poses a couple of questions;

Firstly, is it physically possible to even build a crossover between 1.00m and 1.05m curved tracks using these kits, and secondly; I'm bloody useless on computer type things and need a (Templot) template to print off and follow, so could any kind soul facilitate such a drawing I can easily download please?

 

Mike.

You could try the Templot forum a quick question on there and maybe someone will produce the template you need.

 

Keith, trying to get my head around 3D design and Templot.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I won't embarrass @hayfield by mentioning him by name, but he has very kindly offered to provide said drawing, so let battle commence.

 

Mike.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Maybe someone could set up a template service.

 

Whilst I personally think that's a great idea due to my incompetence, I fear it would open up the floodgates and some members might be on it full time!

Now if Martin could provide an easily accessible (for numpties like me) library of the most common templates then that would be good, but, as to what quantifies "common", what with all the different gauges available, is open to discussion, yet another full time job.

What about a clearing house, eg, a thread on here where modellers ask for a certain template, and if someone has drawn that specific one and has it in their library they could make it available, Would that work?

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

[AndyID]

6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Whilst I personally think that's a great idea due to my incompetence, I fear it would open up the floodgates and some members might be on it full time!

Now if Martin could provide an easily accessible (for numpties like me) library of the most common templates then that would be good, but, as to what quantifies "common", what with all the different gauges available, is open to discussion, yet another full time job.

What about a clearing house, eg, a thread on here where modellers ask for a certain template, and if someone has drawn that specific one and has it in their library they could make it available, Would that work?

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

 

So what is your minimum acceptable radius?

 

(Please see above.)

[AndyID]

18 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Now if Martin could provide an easily accessible (for numpties like me) library of the most common templates then that would be good,

 

 

I think Martin has more than enough on his plate already. He has also made it incredibly easy to navigate Templot. If you can navigate your way around Rmweb you are quite capable of using Templot.

[RBAGE]

24 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Whilst I personally think that's a great idea due to my incompetence, I fear it would open up the floodgates and some members might be on it full time!

Now if Martin could provide an easily accessible (for numpties like me) library of the most common templates then that would be good, but, as to what quantifies "common", what with all the different gauges available, is open to discussion, yet another full time job.

What about a clearing house, eg, a thread on here where modellers ask for a certain template, and if someone has drawn that specific one and has it in their library they could make it available, Would that work?

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

What would be the dogs bits is library of all the common formations where you could then add your gauge and required radius/radii and hey presto "Wynne's Wonderful World of Wailways", for dummies.

Sorry, couldn't think of a suitable W word to finish it off.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

So what is your minimum acceptable radius?

 

(Please see above.)

 

Inner radius of 1m.

 

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

I think Martin has more than enough on his plate already. He has also made it incredibly easy to navigate Templot. If you can navigate your way around Rmweb you are quite capable of using Templot.

 

I did mention that in my comment.

 

Mike.

[martin_wynne]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

is it physically possible to even build a crossover between 1.00m and 1.05m curved tracks using these kits,

@Enterprisingwestern

 

Hi,

 

Of course it is. Or a lot tighter.

 

Whether you actually want one depends on your acceptable minimum radius. This is what it would look like (running lines at 1050mm and 1000mm radius):

 

 

Note that both turnouts in a crossover are always of the same hand. Both LH here.

 

As Andy explained, the tightest radius in the formation is 607mm (24"). That's very tight for EM. Normally you would deal with the problem with some gauge-widening, but you can't do that with these kits because the gauge is ready-fixed.

 

So it's fine for short-wheelbase and bogie stock, but you might, or might not, have problems with larger steam locomotives. Depends on which wheels you are using, back-to-back settings, axle-sideplay, and the price of kippers.

 

In the real world you would wait for Wayne to produce some longer kits, such as a C-10, to produce a crossover in such tightly-curved running lines.

 

Would you like a PDF file to print the above as templates, or the opposite hand, or whatever?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited June 28, 2021 by martin_wynne
tag added

[martin_wynne]

@Enterprisingwestern

 

p.s. Here's a PDF file of that. It will print on 3 pages of A4. Trim them to the red lines and stick together.

 

Make sure you set your PDF reader program to print at 100% NO SCALING. That is not the usual default setting.

 

Martin.

finetrax_em_b7_xover_1050_1000mm.pdf

[martin_wynne]

3 hours ago, RBAGE said:

What would be the dogs bits is library of all the common formations where you could then add your gauge and required radius/radii and hey presto "Wynne's Wonderful World of Wailways", for dummies.

Sorry, couldn't think of a suitable W word to finish it off.

 

That's what Templot is for. It takes only a few clicks to print a template of any size or radius. Here's a video showing how:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=hdIcVN9vvksNd4kwp6LaSw2

 

Martin.