bluestag Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hey cats and kittens, I am about to start work on a LNWR coal tank. The boiler came rolled, but there are no indications of where the handrail holes go. Any hints on how to mark them out? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) What type of kit is this? Do you have a drawing showing handrail positions. Is this the Webb coal tank, if so the hand rails run from smoke box right to the cab and parallel to the tops of the tanks. It might be better to wait until the boiler and tanks are joined then measure from the tank tops. I use a black indelible marker then a straight edge and scriber. Once you have marked the positions use an adjustable automatic centre punch, preferably with some support inside the boiler. Carefully drill with a pin-vice perpendicular to the surface. Good luck! Edited January 18, 2021 by Jeff Smith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Masking tape will assist both marking out and drilling. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said: What type of kit is this? Do you have a drawing showing handrail positions. Is this the Webb coal tank, if so the hand rails run from smoke box right to the cab and parallel to the tops of the tanks. It might be better to wait until the boiler and tanks are joined then measure from the tank tops. I use a black indelible marker then a straight edge and scriber. Once you have marked the positions use an adjustable automatic centre punch, preferably with some support inside the boiler. Carefully drill with a pin-vice perpendicular to the surface. Good luck! Yes, it is the Webb coal tank, and I have the Talbot book on LNWR engines. There is a weight diagram, useless, and a drawing that looks as if it was drawn for a hobby magazine. It certainly was not drawn by Crewe. I guess the concern that I have is to get the line level. I don't think I'll use an automatic center punch. The one I have would dent to boiler for sure. 26 minutes ago, dpgibbons said: Masking tape will assist both marking out and drilling. Yes, masking tape to be sure. It will keep the drill from skidding around. But how to ensure a level run? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 6 hours ago, bluestag said: Yes, it is the Webb coal tank, and I have the Talbot book on LNWR engines. There is a weight diagram, useless, and a drawing that looks as if it was drawn for a hobby magazine. It certainly was not drawn by Crewe. If you can get hold of "Bashers, Gadgets and Mourners" from the Bahamas Locomotive Society, you will find almost everything you need to know about Coal Tanks, including a general arrangement drawing, and a series of elevation drawings, at something like 5mm to the foot, showing typical conditions at various stages in their long life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Use a Surface Gauge to create the straight lines. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I also have 2 x 4mm Coal Tanks that need doing (old Jidenco). I have a LRM 4mm Coal Engine on the go and the instructions gives dimensions of the spacing between the handrail knobs and the height from the running plate. IIRC it suggests marking the line in pencil. I have done this already successfully on a LRM Special DX . Unfortunately, I don't know if the Coal Tank uses exactly the same dimensions but if you need it I can send you the dimensions I have in 4mm and you can convert to 7mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 11 hours ago, micklner said: Use a Surface Gauge to create the straight lines. Don't have one. Got some dividers, however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 11 hours ago, Brassey said: I also have 2 x 4mm Coal Tanks that need doing (old Jidenco). I have a LRM 4mm Coal Engine on the go and the instructions gives dimensions of the spacing between the handrail knobs and the height from the running plate. IIRC it suggests marking the line in pencil. I have done this already successfully on a LRM Special DX . Unfortunately, I don't know if the Coal Tank uses exactly the same dimensions but if you need it I can send you the dimensions I have in 4mm and you can convert to 7mm. So far the advice is to build it until there is a datum, ie the footplate or tanks. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 17 hours ago, Nick Holliday said: If you can get hold of "Bashers, Gadgets and Mourners" from the Bahamas Locomotive Society, you will find almost everything you need to know about Coal Tanks, including a general arrangement drawing, and a series of elevation drawings, at something like 5mm to the foot, showing typical conditions at various stages in their long life. THAT is an expensive read, if I want to buy one in the US. From Britain would be worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 11 hours ago, bluestag said: So far the advice is to build it until there is a datum, ie the footplate or tanks. Yes like I said: "...height from the running plate." (The LNWR called the footplate, running plate) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 6 hours ago, bluestag said: THAT is an expensive read, if I want to buy one in the US. From Britain would be worse. In the good old days of RMweb, you had to give a sensible location before you could post. That seems to have gone by the board a long time ago, giving rise to unfortunate geographically inappropriate suggestions, like mine! PM sent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said: In the good old days of RMweb, you had to give a sensible location before you could post. That seems to have gone by the board a long time ago, giving rise to unfortunate geographically inappropriate suggestions, like mine! PM sent. Oh. Well, I'm in Burbank CA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted January 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2021 On the Right Track video, when building an Alan Gibson 4F, the infamous Mr Tony Wright uses a black marker pen run back and forth along the boiler, then I believe a waterline marker (used in model ship building) to run a straight line horizontally, marking only the marker pen. He then marked along the line the spots where the handrail knob/split pin would go. A drawing is vital, or using photographs working out where they go in relation to other parts (chimneys, domes, lubricators etc) could be another approach. Worked for me, however, I only had digital calipers, not a waterline marker, but it did the same job. I used a sharp nail to make a small indent then as the boiler is quite thick I used my Proxxon drill to make the holes. I use split pins (the ones which come with markits/smiths coupling hooks) as my handrail clamps as I find the brass handrail knobs a little chunky. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Gibson handrail knobs are amongst the finest available for 4mm. Three different lengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted January 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2021 17 hours ago, Jeff Smith said: Gibson handrail knobs are amongst the finest available for 4mm. Three different lengths. Totally agree. I use them for handrails on doorways, tenders etc. I only use split pins on boilers where you see on photographs the slimline type, thats almost just a strap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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