Glue for Peco chairs/baseplates

[robmanchester]

Hello,

Can anybody throw out a suggestion for a glue suitable for Peco 4mm and 7mm scale track chairs that works on wood timbers ? The bond is weak when using Butanone.

 

Butanone is fine on plastic timbers but when using Peco chairs this solvent doesn't seem to 'melt' the Peco plastic to allow it to grip properly onto the wood.

 

Any suggestions welcome.

 

Thanks

Rob

 

[brossard]

Rob, I built a lot of 7mm turnouts using Peco chairs and wooden timbers.  I used MEK/Butanone as solvent and it has worked great.  You do need to flood the joint because the solvent evaporates quickly.  Press down as well to make sure the chair base is in contact with the timber.

 

You could use CA I suppose.  Expensive stuff though.  I use CA to glue the stock rails to the slide chairs, that is a weak spot.

 

John

Edited January 18, 2021 by brossard

[Izzy]

What timbering are you using? Onto ply sleepers I have never had problems, the grain opens up enough to ‘grab’ the chairs, but I guess other woods might be closer grained and not do the same. I always use a pure sable brush and flood the base. Plastic Weld may be an alternative liguid glue to try, but it is strong, will surface melt with ease, and evaporates quickly.

[robmanchester]

Hello John and Izzy,

Thanks for your thoughts. I have just dug out a bottle of Plastic Weld which I had forgotten about and glued up some test pieces ( with the extractor fan on! ) I will let you know how I get on when they have fully set. I am using ply sleepers ( although I had the same results with Butanone on Basswood ) in both 4mm and 7mm scales.

 

Rob

 

[dasatcopthorne]

When I first started to build in plastic chairs and ply sleepers I remember reading somewhere that it was useful to pre-coat the sleepers (only where the chair sits) with the stuff plumbers use to join plastic waste pipes. Polypipe then Butanone

 

Worked for me but then dropped its use as Butanone seemed to work on its own.

 

Dave

[robmanchester]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your post. My memory seems to remember something along those lines now you mention it. I just looked at the data sheet for Polypipe and it is made mainly from Butanone with a small amount of epoxy type material and tetra******* plus another item. The data sheet warns of exploding bottles and other not very nice things but seeing as plumbers get along with it I suspect they are just covering themselves. Like most things just go sensibly. I will bear it in mind.

 

Rob

 

[brossard]

An experiment to try if you are skeptical about the use of MEK/Butanone (these are identical btw).

 

Fix a chair to some scrap sleeper with the solvent.  Remember to flood and press down a little so that the melted ABS has a chance to grab the grain.  Let it set then thread a piece of rail through.  If you pull up on the rail, you should see the chair jaws fail and the chair base remain in place.

 

John

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Polypipe then Butanone

 

Polypipe was supplied by Exactoscale for use when applying their chairs to plywood timbers.

 

Martin.

[robmanchester]

2 hours ago, brossard said:

An experiment to try if you are skeptical about the use of MEK/Butanone (these are identical btw).

 

Fix a chair to some scrap sleeper with the solvent.  Remember to flood and press down a little so that the melted ABS has a chance to grab the grain.  Let it set then thread a piece of rail through.  If you pull up on the rail, you should see the chair jaws fail and the chair base remain in place.

 

John

Hi John,

That is the technique I had been using to test the 'quality' of the bonds.

 

Plastic sleeper+plastic chair(C&L,Exactoscale,Peco)+Butanone = good bond.

Ply sleeper+plastic chair(C&L,Exactoscale)+Butanone = good bond.

Ply sleeper+plastic chair(Peco)+Butanone = poor bond.

Ply sleeper+plastic chair(Peco)+EMA Plastic Weld = unknown until tomorrow when test piece fully cured.

Ply sleeper+plastic chair(Peco)+(Polypipe or Polypipe&Butanone) = unknown as I haven't got any Polypipe!

 

My suggestion is that the Butanone doesn't 'melt' the Peco plastic well enough to key into ply. Never had any problems  with C&L or Exactoscale plastic on ply or plastic sleepers.

 

Rob

 

 

[brossard]

All I can say is that my experience with ply, Peco chairs and MEK is very good.  As mentioned above, it may be down to the ply timber being used.  I use Intentio wooden timbers that have been stained with water based stain.

 

I gave up on Peco plastic timbers because in every case they bowed at the crossing area.  I think because they are hollow.  C&L timbers are solid so much better.  I buy Peco components because they are readily available.

 

John

[dasatcopthorne]

One advantage of plastic chairs on ply sleepers (and I've used it a few times) is that if you find a problem afterwards, you can separate the two by sliding a scalpel blade carefully between them. Then re-glue.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave. 

[robmanchester]

The tests with the Plastic Weld on Peco chairs showed much better adhesion ( for me ) on ply sleepers. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Peco 4mm plastic sleepers and turnout timbers are both solid which is fine but I seem to remember the 7mm scale ones were hollow and didn't work too well.

 

Pity Peco stopped supplying the IL-115 rail. Just right for UK 4mm FB track with a scale head width.

 

Rob

 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, robmanchester said:

The tests with the Plastic Weld on Peco chairs showed much better adhesion ( for me ) on ply sleepers. Thanks for the suggestions

 

Rob

 

 

Glad it has seemed to work. I started off when K&L chairs first arrived of using Slater's Mek (on ply sleepers) which of course isn't (MEK), well now anyway. I still use it though and have just recently stuck some of the original 7mm chairs down on mountboard sleepers for a little micro-minimal plank. I class this as a mild glue, MEK/butanone a bit stronger, and Plastic Weld gets used when neither do the job or a very strong joint is required.

[robmanchester]

Thanks Izzy,

I had previously got it into my head that Mek/Butanone was stronger than Plastic Weld, possibly because several sources of track parts offered Butanone alongside the chairs and sleepers but Martin however remembers Exactoscale supplying Polypipe.

 

A popular track building method for me is C&L or Exactoscale chairs and plastikard sleepers cut to the sizes required from sheets of the stuff. I like to be able to use any of the thickness sheets available ( 0.040, 0.030, 0.020"  etc ). The thiner sleepers I like for goods yards and similar as it makes the application of cinder ballast much quicker than having to build up the depth.

 

Rob