rogerzilla Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 This is supposed to have a brake function like other Bachmann decoders but I haven't been able to get it working using the Zimo CVs that my other Bachmann (6-pin) decoders use. Also, trying to set deceleration to 200 or over results in the decoder determining its own value, such as 44! The manufacturer code is 101 and the version is 36. Any help appreciated. The loco runs fine but I can't customise the settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Something not quite adding up, here. ZIMO manufacturers code is 145. So either this is not a ZIMO manufactured decoder or your equipment is not reading the CVs correctly. If it's not ZIMO, the brake key feature will not be accesssible with the usual ZIMO CVs. If your system is not reading correctly, it suggests the power supply to the decoder is compromised. This could be dirty wheels or track, dirty or maladjusted pickups, or the decoder is not seated correctly. With Next18, I would check that the decoder is fully clicked into position as a first check. Sometimes you may need to write a CV several times before it 'sticks'. (Coincidentally I think, the manufacturer code 101 is assigned to Bachmann Trains US). Best regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Hi, If it is a Zimo decoder then it is not at the latest firmware version, the latest version is 40.1 Also on the Zimo website they say this regarding version 37 "Measures to correct previous software errors: - Bugfix: Brake button did not work with older decoder types - Bugfix: CV59 is now also effective with DC braking" If yours is at version 36 this may explain why the braking function doesn't work. Also try reading back CV250, this should come up with a 3 digit number with which you can look up the decoder type, an MX618 may have type 243 or 181. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 7, 2022 Author Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) I've had a further dig into this, having given up as the loco otherwise runs fine, and something is indeed very wrong. The box says Bachmann 36-567 (not 36-567a) although I ordered 36-567a. On a programming track, setting any CV to any value and then reading it back gives the value incremented by 100. So CV8=108 if I try to reset it with a value of 8, but it's supposed to be read only! Same for CV3 and CV4: set them to 30 and they read back as 130. Set them to 255 and they wrap around and read back as 99. I can't determine what this decoder actually is or how to reset it. I've tried all the common reset CVs and values. It certainly doesn't look like photos of a 36-567. Any ideas? Edited September 7, 2022 by rogerzilla Found more strange decoder behaviour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 On 20/01/2021 at 07:36, rogerzilla said: The manufacturer code is 101 and the version is 36 This is a Bachmann decoder, presumable rebadged from someone else but not from Zimo as CV8 would still show as Zimo were it made by them. What value is reported in CV250 as that will identify the specific decoder - if it is a Zimo ;) The current version of firmware for most (but not all) Zimo decoders is v40.18. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 7, 2022 Author Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) The problem is that CV8 can't be trusted, as it changes if any attempt is made to reset it. It has been 100, 101, 102, 108 and 99 so far! Edited September 7, 2022 by rogerzilla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 ??? - CV8 cannot change, the value is read only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) Bachmann Europe plc - Next18 DCC Loco-Decoder (with Brake Button function) This is a Zimo decoder, therefore you have something wrong with your setup somewhere. Bachmann are also ripping you off at £44.95 as the Zimo MX618N18 is only £24.00!!! Edited September 7, 2022 by WIMorrison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob83a Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 A quick search of topic on here shows that the 36-567 is a Zimo MX618N18. The basic way that decoders are rebadged is just to change the label on the box/packaging. Taking it a bit further would include also changing part such as the manufacturer ID (cv8). And taking it another step would be to have changes in the firmware that would change how some of the firmware and or CVs work. The manufacturer ID is almost certainly not hard wired into the hardware of the decoder but is just part of the firmware. While it may be a Zimo decoder you may find that standard Zimo tools to change the firmware might not work if the manufacturer ID has been changed as part of the rebadging Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 As a Zimo decoder you treat it exactly the same as any other Ximo decoder - and you can update the Bachmann Zimo decoders in the same way that you update original Zimo decoders. I know as I have a few that were Bachmann and I have updated them successfully. The CVs all read exactly the same as a Zimo decoder - and if you look at the link I posted before your post, you will see that even Bachmann say that it is a Zimo MX618N18 and point you to the Zimo site! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kaput Posted September 7, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2022 The Bachmann badged Zimo's often have the software update locked out of the box, not that it stops the MXULFA from updating them anyway. Key question seems to be missing from this thread - what DCC system are you actually using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 Bachmann Dynamis Ultima. I don't think it is a 36-567 at all. It looks nothing like one. I think it's a random decoder that's been put in the box (I'm still trying to find out where I bought it). Pics of this decoder and a 36-567 attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 That explains a lot 🤣 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted September 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2022 I’ve had a couple of experiences with decoders like this. They worked fine on the main track, but when put on the program track just kept returning random cv figures no matter which cv’s were being read. A sign there is a short circuit somewhere. Eventually I found the problem, by a process of trial and elimination, was they were passing a tiny amount of residual current leakage somewhere on them. Well, that’s what I concluded anyway. Not enough to stop them functioning on full DCC power but on the minimal values used on the program track preventing them returning the correct cv values. Removing them and giving them a brush on both sides with an old (clean!) toothbrush removed whatever it was causing the issues and thereafter they worked as you would expect. This might be what is happening here, so giving them a scrub could be worth a shot at least, nothing much to loose. re the make. These Bachmann decoders are coded 36-567A now, indicating there must have been a previous version sans the A. Perhaps this is one. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Is it outwith the wit of man to put a manuf ID and decoder model on the PCB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 36 minutes ago, RAF96 said: Is it outwith the wit of man to put a manuf ID and decoder model on the PCB. That would thwart all the badge engineering that goes on! I've decided to write it off and order a Zimo MX618. One day they might be in stock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, RAF96 said: Is it outwith the wit of man to put a manuf ID and decoder model on the PCB. No, that's why you'll find 'ZIMO' and the model number in gold on the new MS range. (You can also, as always, read the modle number from all ZIMO decoders in CV 250. Best regards, Paul Edited September 8, 2022 by pauliebanger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesed Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 40 minutes ago, rogerzilla said: I've decided to write it off and order a Zimo MX618. One day they might be in stock! MN180N18 is the model number for new Zimo range replacement for the MX618N18, which is supposed to be the first on the MN series to be released. If you are lucky you might get one in time for Christmas but if not it will be something to look forward to in the New Year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 2 hours ago, pauliebanger said: You can also, as always, read the modle number from all ZIMO decoders in CV 250 I did suggest that many posts earlier and asked what the value was to identify the decoder, however that information was made available :( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) The values returned are meaningless with this decoder, as even CV8 can be apparently changed. I have done more digging. It was supplied by Rails with the EFE Class 17 in Oct 2020. Here's the odd thing - the decoder PCB layout DOES visually match the photo on Rails' confirmation e-mail (attached to this post) but does not match the photo on the packaging it came in, which is the second photo I posted above. Note this has the row of three ICs rather than two larger ones on the genuine article. I wonder if I got the display model, which had somehow become mixed up, or whether there was a whole batch like this? Edited September 8, 2022 by rogerzilla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Zimo also change the designs of the decoders as the chips that are used go in and out of availability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 There is a long-shot possible way to get a Zimo to do weird things if you've set it without realising - the pseudo-programming offset values set through CV7 to allow systems which can't do high number programming to access the high number CV's and values. To reset this back to "normal" set this value in programming: CV #7 = 0 ( Chapter 9 of the English Language Zimo manual for MX small decoders, towards the end second column in page 69 explains how one can set CV7 offsets to remain even after power cycles, using values above 200. ). I'm unsure what decoder this really is, but as Rogerzilla thinks its a Zimo, the above may apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beejack Posted September 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, rogerzilla said: The values returned are meaningless with this decoder, as even CV8 can be apparently changed. I have done more digging. It was supplied by Rails with the EFE Class 17 in Oct 2020. Here's the odd thing - the decoder PCB layout DOES visually match the photo on Rails' confirmation e-mail (attached to this post) but does not match the photo on the packaging it came in, which is the second photo I posted above. Note this has the row of three ICs rather than two larger ones on the genuine article. I wonder if I got the display model, which had somehow become mixed up, or whether there was a whole batch like this? If you do a search for MX618N18 on google and click on the images option you'll find quite a few images which look identical to your decoder. An example: https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/zimo/mx618 you'll also notice that if you click on the image it changes to the 2 chip version! Edited September 8, 2022 by beejack Fat finger syndrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kaput Posted September 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2022 Comparing your images with my spare Zimo MX618N18's and they are a match so that is a Zimo you have. Its probably just an older version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted September 9, 2022 Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 In that case it must be faulty, as CV8=8 should reset it but all it does is make CV8=108! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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