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Modern industrial/horticultural narrow gauge


Paul H Vigor
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9 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

What exactly is it being used for in that shot?

 

There’s a few watercress bed railways etc. still operating but I’m not sure they could be described as ‘modern.’

Growing peppers, from the shape of the leaves and colour of the crop - possibly in Holland.

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5 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Yes but are they picking them while sitting on the rail vehicle? I can’t tell what it’s actually being used for.

It appears to be a scissor lift with a motor so is it a platform for tying up the plants to the cords going to the roof? Probably to fit more in by training them up rather than spreading naturally?

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36 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

What exactly is it being used for in that shot?

 

There’s a few watercress bed railways etc. still operating but I’m not sure they could be described as ‘modern.’

Peppers grown up strings supported by wires. Narrow gauge mobile 'platform' allows growers to train heads of plants up the strings. Similar methods would be used to tend commercial glasshouse tomato crop.

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58 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Peppers grown up strings supported by wires. Narrow gauge mobile 'platform' allows growers to train heads of plants up the strings. Similar methods would be used to tend commercial glasshouse tomato crop.

and cucumbers - also courgettes, squashes and beans - anything that grows on vine-like plants - perhaps not pumpkins 

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9 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

It also appears to have a slightly strange rail/wheel design.

I also doubt any pointwork features? I imagine that at the end of each row the operator simply derails and rerails the 'platform'? Track and wheels resemble plateway equipment?

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Non-railway bods designing railed vehicles will often put the flange/guide on the outside of the rail, because it "looks right", whereas in fact it is wrong for good reasons of physics: a very slightly coned tread, with the flange inside the rail, is "self correcting" in guidance, whereas the same the other way round will amplify errors and tend to derail.

 

You can test this yourself using two paper cups and two lengths of timber. Put the timbers parallel, glue the cups rim-to-rim, roll them down the track and they will wander a bit, but stay on it. Now two cups glued bottom-to-bottom ......... they will ride-up and derail.

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2 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

I also doubt any pointwork features? I imagine that at the end of each row the operator simply derails and rerails the 'platform'? Track and wheels resemble plateway equipment?

 

It does seem to have flanges but on the outside. I think at one point there was an otherwise fairly conventional quarry line in Kent or Sussex that had this but I’m not sure why.

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5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Non-railway bods designing railed vehicles will often put the flange/guide on the outside of the rail, because it "looks right", whereas in fact it is wrong for good reasons of physics: a very slightly coned tread, with the flange inside the rail, is "self correcting" in guidance, whereas the same the other way round will amplify errors and tend to derail.

 

You can test this yourself using two paper cups and two lengths of timber. Put the timbers parallel, glue the cups rim-to-rim, roll them down the track and they will wander a bit, but stay on it. Now two cups glued bottom-to-bottom ......... they will ride-up and derail.

"... two cups glued bottom-to-bottom ......... they will ride-up and derail." Ah ha!

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20 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Non-railway bods designing railed vehicles will often put the flange/guide on the outside of the rail, because it "looks right", whereas in fact it is wrong for good reasons of physics: a very slightly coned tread, with the flange inside the rail, is "self correcting" in guidance, whereas the same the other way round will amplify errors and tend to derail.

 

You can test this yourself using two paper cups and two lengths of timber. Put the timbers parallel, glue the cups rim-to-rim, roll them down the track and they will wander a bit, but stay on it. Now two cups glued bottom-to-bottom ......... they will ride-up and derail.

They don’t need to spend time and money machining cones on the tread or tapers on the flange for a straight run like that where a simple flange / washer on the outside keeps it on. I bet it’s made out of standard steel section rather than drawn rail too. I’ve seen lots of sectional track used in miniature gauges made from steel L angle and it perfect for light or occasional use as it’s strong enough and lighter to move.  It’s cheapness is the efficiency for a single trolley that just guides it as they move from one plant to the next, I doubt it runs for more than a couple of feet at a time when being used. It’s also a lot cheaper and smaller than a commercial steered scissor lift so I reckon it’s a homemade system with a lift designed for a motorbike plonked on top from the look of it. :) 
 

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9 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Was there any reasoning behind it? Obviously there are good reasons when double-flanged wheels are used but that’s not really the same.

Couple of reasons I’ve seen, ease of changing wheels on inside bearing trucks as you didn’t need to lift a loaded wagon to get the wheel off, just chock it and, I assume, hammer it off. A second would be points / turntables made from solid castings so they run outside. All sorts of unique systems were made up by the unique logic of local foundries and managers :) 

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I don’t have all my old IRS journal back numbers any more, but there is a detailed article about Swanscombe in one of those, and I don’t recall any firm conclusion about “why”. It was a very old system, originally horse-drawn, and as Paul says local foundries and mechanics used their initiative.

 

WRT outside flanges on very basic systems like the greenhouse - it does no harm, especially with a parallel tyre, it just doesn’t do anything very useful either (IMO).

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While we're on outside-flange railways, I think people who are into to narrow-gauge obscuranta far enough to enjoy greenhouse tramways might like this https://americanindustrialmining.com/c.w.-hunt-locomotives-and-industrial-railways - may already be aware of it, of course.

 

I still don't understand how the claimed advantages of it couldn't have been more easily arrived at by using a thoughtfully-designed inside-flange set-up, which probably explains why, although it was fairly popular, it didn't catch-on really big-time.

 

There is a discussion going-on on the IRS forum about UK applications of the system, of which there seem to have been a small number.

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