LBSC B4 4-4-0's

[Jack P]

Hi guys, 

 

I recently found out that some 7 B4's made it to BR, although not all of them in revenue earning traffic.

LRM do a 4mm kit of the B4 in it's original condition, and i'm looking for some information on how they were modified, by the late 40's, from their original condition. Not the ones that were modified into B4x's, but the ones that remained classified as B4. So far i've been playing a bit of 'spot the difference' with the below photos, from Mike Morant's fantastic website. So far the differences I can see are:

 

- Extended and Riveted smokebox

- Replacement Chimney

- Removal of whatever the little bulbous things at the base of the smokebox are (snifters??)

- Replacement safety valves

- Whistle was later relocated from the Cab roof to beside the safety valve

- Cab roof extension (behind the handrail)

- Ejector pipe down the side of the boiler 

- Filled in Coal rails 

- Some appear to (possibly) have had clack valves fitted, and then removed

- Steam heat/Vac/misc bufferbeam pipework

 

Is there anything else i've missed? Some other features of note are;

 

- The cab appears to be in 'As-built' condition, is this correct? Most LBSC locos ended up having their cabs cut down

- The frames at the front end appear to remain the same, buffer

- The dome appears to be fatter on the later engines, but I can't tell if this is a visual discrepancy, due to the smokebox extension/Chimney replacment.

- LBSC's 59 had different frames at the front end, which don't seem to feature anywhere else, SEMG also doesn't list a withdrawal date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd love to see photos of peoples models, if they have also done some type of conversion, please post away!

Thanks in advance to all.

[Jack P]

A quick amendment - Page 101-103 of 'The Bible' (J.H. Russell's Pictorial of southern Locomotives) details the B4, and this shows;

 

- There were two positions for the dome, it appears that the first position was directly over the front driver, between the 3rd and 4th boiler bands, and the second position was forward of this, between the 2nd and 3rd boiler bands

- The dome in the forward position appears to be smaller than the one in the rear position, measuring the drawings on pages 102-103 suggested there is an (approx.) 1mm difference at the base.

 

I'll also touch base with the good people at LRM and see if they have any notes on the class

Edited January 21, 2021 by Jack P

[Jack P]

I have found some further images of Later-in-life B4's

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of particular interest is 2054 below, in deplorable condition. Unfortunately, this website doesn't list the locations of the photos, but if someone can advise of shed allocations of the class, it should be straightforward to work out.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

[Jack P]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 

 

That's fantastic, thanks for sharing! Do you have any details about the build?

[Wickham Green too]

Don't forget THE bible series from Don Bradley : https://www.billhudsontransportbooks.co.uk/bhtb/bh9897/locomotives-of-the-lbscr-part-1/ ......... the B4s are inVolume 3.

[Oldddudders]

27 minutes ago, Jack P said:

 

That's fantastic, thanks for sharing! Do you have any details about the build?

It's the LRM kit, built and painted by Jerry Clifford, aka Queensquare on here. 2068 really should have frame extensions on the front, but I wanted one that lasted past WW2, and agreed we'd omit them, as they weren't typical. 

[Nick C]

The Brighton circle's website has withdrawal dates etc for the whole class, along with photos in LBSCR days:

 

http://www.lbscr.org/Rolling-Stock/Locomotives/R.J.Billinton/B4.xhtml

 

Interesting that two locos of the same class both carried the name 'Sussex'...

 

I like how 2063 in your first post still carries her name, presumably a local adornment?

[pete_mcfarlane]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

I like how 2063 in your first post still carries her name, presumably a local adornment?

The tender looks empty of coal. I'm wondering if the loco is withdrawn, and has been renamed for one last photo before being towed away for scrap. 

[Nick C]

14 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The tender looks empty of coal. I'm wondering if the loco is withdrawn, and has been renamed for one last photo before being towed away for scrap. 

I was wondering that - particularly as the caption says she's at Brighton, but was allocated to Eastbourne. 

[Jack P]

On 21/01/2021 at 23:29, Oldddudders said:

It's the LRM kit, built and painted by Jerry Clifford, aka Queensquare on here. 2068 really should have frame extensions on the front, but I wanted one that lasted past WW2, and agreed we'd omit them, as they weren't typical. 

 

It's fantastic! I feel a bit foolish - I only went and read the LRM page on the B4 after you posted that - turns out the kit comes with the two different boiler options! Do you happen to know what Motor/Gearbox combo was used?

 

On 21/01/2021 at 23:49, Nick C said:

Interesting that two locos of the same class both carried the name 'Sussex'...

 

And apparently one of them carried the name 'La France'..

 

23 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The tender looks empty of coal. I'm wondering if the loco is withdrawn, and has been renamed for one last photo before being towed away for scrap. 

 

22 hours ago, Nick C said:

I was wondering that - particularly as the caption says she's at Brighton, but was allocated to Eastbourne. 

 

The caption on same photo on the SREMG website states that it's sitting out of service at Hither Green in that photo. Also I note that the name is applied in an odd fashion, not quite even across the splasher. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Jack P

[Wickham Green too]

Definitely NOT Hither Green - there were no buildings that old as the shed was only built in S.R. days ! ...... yes, looks like Brighton.

[Blandford1969]

There are a couple on the bay of evil at the moment

[SD85]

On 21/01/2021 at 00:04, Jack P said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top photo is possibly East Croydon, or maybe Clapham Junction? But not certain either way.

 

Second and third photos are at New Cross Gate shed which closed after the war. The station nameboard can be seen in the background of photo 2.

Edited January 23, 2021 by SD85

[SD85]

On 21/01/2021 at 00:57, Jack P said:

 

 

 

 

 

Top photo, the windows make me think this is possibly Brighton? Can't be sure TBH as I can't find any photos of the shed interior to check.

 

The bottom photo is possibly taken at Eastbourne, which was bombed in the war. The girders look familiar.

Edited January 23, 2021 by SD85