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Mystery Wagons 1949


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6 hours ago, 5050 said:

I think I've seen that photo credited as being taken at a couple of locations including, in reverse, at Minera.   IMHO they're definitely coke wagons - but are we certain it is taken at Porth-y-waen?  What is the structure top right?  Locos of that type were, I believe, shedded at Oswestry - but also at Croes Newydd.  Pity the number isn't readable.

 

Interesting that you're building a layout based on the area.  It's somewhere I've always had an interest in, especially as we lived in Oswestry 1970/71 and I often cycled up and down the Tanat valley.  Can you provide any details on your project?

Early days - disused scratch built lime kiln (based on Nantmawr) just placed in position at the moment to fill a corner.

IMG_0208.jpg

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8 hours ago, petethemole said:

On this site, http://www.oswestry-borderland-heritage.co.uk/?page=57

the photo caption has the load as stone.  Lime kilns in the vicinity seem to have closed by then.

According to some local history sites although older kilns were closing around WW1 there appeared to be more modern ones still active in the area in the early 1960s.

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Definitely looks to be the same loco as in a photo with a coke wagon in Mike Lloyd's book, which is attributed to R M Camwell. Not the same photo, just the loco and two coke wagons. This one is definitely Porthywaen, as Mike specifically identifies the location as being beside the incline to Cooper's Sidings with Porthywaen halt in the background and notes buildings on the right as being crushers serving Peartree Top siding and Little Crusher siding. The photo posted above is not actually in Mike's book.

Jonathan

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2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Definitely looks to be the same loco as in a photo with a coke wagon in Mike Lloyd's book, which is attributed to R M Camwell. Not the same photo, just the loco and two coke wagons. This one is definitely Porthywaen, as Mike specifically identifies the location as being beside the incline to Cooper's Sidings with Porthywaen halt in the background and notes buildings on the right as being crushers serving Peartree Top siding and Little Crusher siding. The photo posted above is not actually in Mike's book.

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan, interesting information. The loco was a regular in the area in the 40's until withdrawn from Oswestry shed, I think, in the early 1950's. I wonder if, as suggested, the photo is by H C Casserley ? It looks a bit 'amateurish' though for a professional photographer. The coke wagons are interesting. I wonder if they were actually carrying coke for the kilns, or related lime industry, or they had been requisitioned for stone traffic. 

 

Pete.

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I did say "might be" HC Casserley.

 

I just have a feeling it was one of his as I'm pretty sure that photo was in one of the Casserley books on BR locomotives. Called something like GWR Locomotives in 1948.

 

But I might be mistaken about that as well as it's a long time since I looked at that book.

 

The photo is well known though. It's not rare and unpublished.

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I did say "might be" HC Casserley.

 

I just have a feeling it was one of his as I'm pretty sure that photo was in one of the Casserley books on BR locomotives. Called something like GWR Locomotives in 1948.

 

But I might be mistaken about that as well as it's a long time since I looked at that book.

 

The photo is well known though. It's not rare and unpublished.

 

 

 

Jason

Fair point Jason, and photos don't always reproduce very well when scanned or copied to web pages, so good chance it's by HCC. I'll see if I can find a copy of the book - probably a long shot though.

 

Cheers, Pete.

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9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I did say "might be" HC Casserley.

 

I just have a feeling it was one of his as I'm pretty sure that photo was in one of the Casserley books on BR locomotives. Called something like GWR Locomotives in 1948.

 

But I might be mistaken about that as well as it's a long time since I looked at that book.

 

The photo is well known though. It's not rare and unpublished.

 

 

 

Jason

There's a photo of the loco in the Casserley book of all locos which went to BR in 1948. I believe it was originally published in parts but I have an all-region copy. The picture of 1331 is inside a shed. 

I believe there are also some pictures of lines in that area by 'Cam' Camwell  which should be with the SLS who now hold his archive.

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25 minutes ago, purplepiepete said:

Oddly I have just found this photo on the 'Disused Stations' website which has, what appears to be, the same photo in reverse ! 

 

It is captioned 'Lime Train leaving Minera' which is near Wrexham. Confused now !

 

Pete. 

Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 10.40.36.png

5050 refers to that photo earlier in the thread. The next question is, which is the correct way around?

Perhaps that will help with the correct location. 

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1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

5050 refers to that photo earlier in the thread. The next question is, which is the correct way around?

Perhaps that will help with the correct location. 

Ah yes of course, I missed that. TBH I still think it's in the Llanymynech area as this loco was shedded at Oswestry, never, as far as I know, Croes Newydd (Wrexham) which would have served the Minera location.

 

However I may be completely wrong !

 

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/08/croes-newydd-1938-1967.html

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/08/oswestry-1938-1964.html

 

Excellent website (link above) to shed allocations

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5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

5050 refers to that photo earlier in the thread. The next question is, which is the correct way around?

Perhaps that will help with the correct location. 

It's not Minera, I'm 100% certain.   There aren't any bridges at Minera that accurately fulfil the requirements.  Porth-y-Waen is far more plausible.  The orientation in the original post is correct IMHO.

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1331 arrived at Oswestry in May 1940 from Swindon where it had been since 1935, in 1934 it was at Weymouth. It remained at Oswestry until 1949 being condemned at Swindon on 9/1/1950. There are no monthly records of it ever being sent elsewhere in the period it was at Oswestry.

 

Alan

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1 hour ago, Quarryscapes said:

The Minera caption is 100% wrong as is the orientation. The smokebox number plate gives it away (although you can't tell from that poor quality web image)

The problem is that a Minera website shows the photo as being taken at the quarry.  Rather misleading for future researchers.

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Another interesting photo from the Oswestry Borderland website showing a Porthywaen Lime Co wagon amongst others, including a coke wagon, at the sidings in Porthywaen.

 

Not conclusive at all but I wonder if this also points to the coke wagons being redeployed for stone ?

 

Not sure,  however I wonder if coke was used to fire the Hoffmann kiln at Llanymynech ?

 

Pete.

 

img027.jpg

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I remember one of the Steetley lime wagons parked up alongside the main road in the early/mid 60's.  I don't think it was still a runner!  I think it had gone by the time we moved to Oswestry in 1970.

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Caption as attached to the photo :

 

Photo of a Porthywaen Lime Co 10 ton wagon parked in a siding at Porthywaen, date unknown. Many of the early wagons had wooden underframes, some with dumb-buffers, whilst later wagons had steel channel underframes. An interesting relic to be seen at Porthywaen until the early 1960's was a dumb-buffered open wagon with a "primitive roof". The foreman at the works stated in 1952 that it was used for the storage of salt and had been standing in the same place for 50 years.

 

Assume it went for scrap in the 60's - what a pity it wasn't saved ! 

 

Pete.

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