niteshadex Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I have experience with a soldering iron but not familiar with putting together brass kits. I have this GNR clerestory fruit/milk van, whitemetal body and brass uframe. I attached a photo. Unfortunately this kit didn’t come with instructions. I’m looking for any tips like which way do you make the folds ect. also note those 2 small frets have printed on them “GNR 18’ fish van”, but the fish van is the sliding door version. I don’t know if those belong in this kit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Generally speaking, the etched grooves go on the inside of the fold. However, given the multiplicity of designers and the... erm... variable quality of kits, there may well be exceptions to that rule of thumb. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Agree, folds are usually on the inside. Occasionally you come across a part that requires a 180 deg bend and that would be an exception. I think a decent iron is essential, with a shiny tip. 145 deg solder is usual but you can use 188 deg solder if you want. There is a plethora of opinion on flux. I favour non-acid flux. To keep the iron tip clean, I have been using some brass wool for some time. Excellent stuff. To control solder amounts, I cut tiny pieces and pick it up with my iron. A fiber pen is really useful, along with a scraper (I use an old Exacto curved blade) to keep the work tidy. If you can find photos of the wagon, that would be very helpful to you I think. John 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 With a stroke of luck I found the instructions. Here’s a picture of them and my progress so far. Any more tips would be appreciated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) You are very lucky to have picked up a (rare) D&S kit for your first attempt. One of the better producers of kits at the time, and his instructions are much better than most. Best to read through the instructions, with the frets in front of you, several times, to understand the sequence, and ask here if anything doesn't become clear, before detaching too many bits from the frets. Edited January 24, 2021 by Nick Holliday 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Thanks for the tips, I am sort of stuck at the moment and I cannot find ANY picture on the internet of the bottom side of one of these GNR westinghouse-braked vans. A picture of the underbelly for reference would be really helpful right now if somebody can provide one. Thanks Edited January 24, 2021 by niteshadex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Cleanliness IS godliness in the land of solder. As it is an old kit a fibreglass brush or stick is pretty much essential. If the tarnish is severe, , 1200 grade wet and dry paper used wet with a little washing up liquid will help. Have a good clean before starting to remove parts. Individual parts can be then scrubbed up before soldering. My personal preference for removing parts is an Exacto #2 knife on a block of softwood or thick ply. The trick is to position the grain of the wood in the direction of the cut, push the tip of the blade into the wood and press through the tab. Easier to do than describe. Back to line one. Have a good clean up after each operation. Clean off any flux then file or scrape any surplus solder and finally wash again having made that component as perfect as you can. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 The kit is coming together well, but as I said before I have never build a kit with this type of brake setup (Westinghouse brakes). I’m having trouble figure out this brake rigging even with the instructions. Anyone who’s put together one of these care to show me a picture of the brake setup on yours, or at the very least some kind of clear diagram? I can’t find anything on google image search Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I haven't done many Westinghouse air brake fitted wagons but I have just finished a North British 4 wheeled carriage so fitted. Here's a picture of the underframe: From what I learned (and I got some expert tutoring from the kit designer), the aircylinder at the center of the underframe pushes the pistons outward to apply the brakes. This is opposite to vacuum braking. There will also be an air reservoir connected to the through pipe and the cylinder respectively. Note also the safety loops around the yokes. The kit didn't have subfloor truss detail so I made that from plastic strip. This is 7mm but no reason you shouldn't have a go at detailing the U/F. D&S kits are very good, I have made one in 4mm and another in 7mm. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, brossard said: I haven't done many Westinghouse air brake fitted wagons but I have just finished a North British 4 wheeled carriage so fitted. Here's a picture of the underframe: From what I learned (and I got some expert tutoring from the kit designer), the aircylinder at the center of the underframe pushes the pistons outward to apply the brakes. This is opposite to vacuum braking. There will also be an air reservoir connected to the through pipe and the cylinder respectively. Note also the safety loops around the yokes. The kit didn't have subfloor truss detail so I made that from plastic strip. This is 7mm but no reason you shouldn't have a go at detailing the U/F. D&S kits are very good, I have made one in 4mm and another in 7mm. John Wow, this brake system is unlike any I have put together. My layout is in the late big-4 era. Appreciate the photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) I'm a bit confused, as the GNR was a vacuum braked line, and hence the vacuum brake gear, as shown in the kit instructions, will be required and is very prominent. Many of this type of van were, however, dual-fitted and hence a Westinghouse brake cylinder and reservoir will be required. As John's picture of the NBR underframe suggests, these items are very discreet, and may then be virtually invisible, obscured by all the vacuum brake's appendages. If the practice of other lines is adopted, when dual fitted, I believe the Westinghouse brake gear is positioned on the opposite side of the underframe from the vacuum brake cylinder, and not on the centre line, as per the Westinghouse only braked NBR example shown. There will be additional linkage to connect the two braking systems, but the WB bits will probably be tucked up close to the frame members. Edited January 24, 2021 by Nick Holliday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said: I'm a bit confused, as the GNR was a vacuum braked line, and hence the vacuum brake gear, as shown in the kit instructions, will be required and is very prominent. Many of this type of van were, however, dual-fitted and hence a Westinghouse brake cylinder and reservoir will be required. As John's picture of the NBR underframe suggests, these items are very discreet, and may then be virtually invisible, obscured by all the vacuum brake's appendages. If the practice of other lines is adopted, when dual fitted, I believe the Westinghouse brake gear is positioned on the opposite side of the underframe from the vacuum brake cylinder, and not on the centre line, as per the Westinghouse only braked NBR example shown. There will be additional linkage to connect the two braking systems, but the WB bits will probably be tucked up close to the frame members. Ah yes i noticed that, this kit comes with a regular vacuum cylinder as well as WB bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Ah, yes, dual fitted will be much as you described Nick. As it happens I did a D&S kit of the dual fitted LNER 32' GP van some while ago: You can see the traditional vacuum brake system . The Westinghouse cylinder and reservoir are seen at the top of the picture. Again, I built up the sub floor trussing from plastic strip. John Edited January 24, 2021 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hey I’m back. So I’m almost done with the last of the brake bits and it looks like this kit doesn’t include every part to actually have a complete dual brake system. There are no safety loops for the yokes, and the thing that pivots that the 2 yokes connect to (I forgot what it’s called), as well as a few other tiny bits. Do you think the Mainly Trains detailing fret would have the parts needed to complete the missing brake components? Also what is the best thing to use to make safety loops for the yokes ? Simple brass wire? If so what thickness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I'm not surprised that the kit is missing some parts. However you can probably make these yourself. Most kits I have done have completely ignored the safety loops. On the real thing these would have been thin flat strapping. For 4mm, 0.5mm brass wire will probably do. You're in luck, I took a pic of two of the frets: There are instructions as I recall. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, brossard said: I'm not surprised that the kit is missing some parts. However you can probably make these yourself. Most kits I have done have completely ignored the safety loops. On the real thing these would have been thin flat strapping. For 4mm, 0.5mm brass wire will probably do. You're in luck, I took a pic of two of the frets: There are instructions as I recall. John I found the instruction sheet for the righthand fret. I'm pretty sure I can compete the dual brake rigging with this fret as well as 0.5mm brass wire for the loops. Thanks for the tip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2021 On the general tips side, green scourers/Scotch bright is also good for cleaning up large flat areas. Not good for part with little pokey out bits though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteshadex Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just an update, i finally finished the kit, my first brass. I have no idea how the livery looked so I got a little creative with it. I'm awaiting the Mainly Trains brake detail fret. Also one of the brake shoes snapped off and fell into my carpet. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillar Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) Looks excellent. The missing shoe should be an easy enough fix. Edited February 3, 2021 by Pillar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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