Heaton Norr(ish)

[Carl]

Hi all,

 

After amassing stock over the past 10 years or so, I thought it's probably about time I start building a layout to put them on.

 

This started by seeing that Tim Horn had a full circle of 1200mm radius x 1ft boards available and a couple of 4' boards to join them.  The idea was to just have a simple oval so I can run some trains and mess about with some scenery.  Unfortunately, the curved baseboards turned out to be 750mm radius which on their own would have been too small for what I want to run, but after a conversation with him and my partner, I've ended up with this - I think a much more interesting layout than the oval would have been!

 

The model is based roughly on Heaton Norris Junction - enough to be recognisable to people familiar with it, but allowing me to chop and change things as the fancy takes me - and includes a short length of the branch through Reddish South towards Stalybridge.  Perhaps more interestingly, it will also feature a near scale length Stockport Viaduct - I only need to drop two of the 22 large spans to make it fit.

 

If you are familiar with the area, you'll notice Stockport Viaduct is actually on the wrong side of the junction - in reality, trains would cross the viaduct, then either branch off to Stalybridge or carry on towards Manchester.  Hence the name, Heaton Norrish.  I'll see how long it is before that name stops being funny to me.

 

The reason for this is that it is more suited to layout of the room, so the scenery is viewable from the accessible corner of the room, and allowing a fairly substantial storage area for the scale-length trains I like to see.

 

I'll be using British Finescale code 40 track on the scenic parts, with their concrete pointwork, and mainly Peco trackwork in the fiddle yard.  The layout will be mainly computer controlled, using TrainController Gold.

 

Anyway, here's the track plan.

 

(Ignore the DMU Sidings label on the lower right, not sure how it ended up there!)

I am happy with the track plan on the scenic boards - but I am toying with a few ideas.  For instance, one would be to move the LNWR warehouse to the other side of the road it's next to, and add a station on the board it is currently on - based on Heaton Chapel, but called Heaton Norris.  A kind of what-if Heaton Norris didn't close.

 

I am having some problems with the off scenery part though.

 

The Stalybridge line is mainly used by freight, but does have a once-a-week, in-one-direction-only parliamentary.  In my version of reality, although the branch has been singled, it will see a fair bit of passenger traffic too.

 

The main problem with this is that it means that trains coming off the branch have to cross the entire fiddle yard to be able to get back to the outside slow line.  The track plan above has a 3% incline up and over the rest of the fiddle yard, which I have just enough room for, and allows for a full length freight train, and a few DMUs on each track.  These trains can also run over the viaduct, so it allows for some variety in freight running over the branch, although you would end up with the same train coming from the same direction in close succession to get it into the main storage yard.

 

The red DMU sidings are there to allow 2 car DMUs to avoid that problem, and look like they're returning from some destination down the branch line.

 

The other two alternatives I've considered are :

 

1)  Sacrifice the two scenic Reddish South boards and use them as storage roads, so the scenic break would be the horizontal road bridge.  I think that would be a shame, I want to model that branch as being singled tracked with disused platforms/track.

 

2) To have the whole Reddish South branch on an incline, allowing for a few, longer storage roads above the main fiddle yard, which descend on the outside of the fiddle yard to the outer slow track.  I think that would result in having to use some/all of the scenic board that comes off the viaduct above Reddish South station as storage since I'll lose a few of the tracks on the main fiddle yard on the right hand side - I'm not totally against that.

 

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on this!  I'm kinda blind to alternatives at the moment I think.

 

I need to make a decision on it, and whether to include a station on the main line, before moving to track laying.  I'm waiting on a delivery from British Finescale before I can move forward with the track laying anyway, so am trying to take my time.  I have plenty of buildings to start modelling in the meantime.

 

Here's a shot of the boards built up, and with a cardboard/paper mockup of the viaduct, with a little building for scale.  You can also see a 20-wagon train on the far side.

 

 

Thanks for reading,
Carl.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Carl

[woodenhead]

I wouldn't lose the Reddish branch - it's part of the layout and of the location, just having it as a fiddleyard seems to take away from the layout overall.

 

As those trains that use the branch have to traverse the viaduct in real life, could they not circulate from the branch back around, but then go straight on to the viaduct.  Then after the viaduct a ladders crossing could put them on to the correct side of the fiddlyard to repeat the circulation via the branch.

 

I know in the real world those trains do not continue straight, but you've already put the viaduct in so that it's all reversed so having the trains go straight on at least means some version of reality.

[woodenhead]

Ah heck just remembered the tracks are Slow Fast Fast Slow aren't they - then a ladder crossing at the entrance to the fiddleyard from the Reddish line to move the train over.

[Carl]

Thanks Woodenhead for taking a look.

 

I've knocked up a quick example of how the ladder might look, is this how you mean?

 

 

I did want to avoid this to stop trains coming off the branch blocking trains leaving the fiddle yard onto the viaduct, as the branch line is borderline long enough to hold one of my freights without fouling Heaton Norris Junction.

 

However, thinking about it more now I have a plan in front of me, I don't think that's an issue - a freight crossing Heaton Norris junction blocks the anti-clockwise traffic anyway, so some careful timing can mean a train emerges onto the viaduct at "yellow light" speed and they clear each other.

 

I've used double slips in the ladder junction - having back to back points is too long for me, resulting in storage tracks too short.  I may change them to simple diamonds and add crossovers on the running tracks coming off the viaduct to add a bit of interest up there, and thus allow trains to go between fast/slow in each direction (configured in the opposite direction to the crossovers at Heaton Norris Junction.)

 

I'm not too concerned about trains crossing from up to down, most will be loco hauled, but I can fit some DMU sidings in that empty space to effectively allow them to reverse having come off the branch.

 

Thanks again!

Carl.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Carl

[woodenhead]

Simple diamonds I will be fine as your trains don't need to access those tracks.

 

A bit of complexity in trains crossing also add to your signalling constraints, rather like the real railway.

[montyburns56]

I spent a lot of my trainspotting days at HNJ in the 80s so I'm really looking forward to your project. What period are you modelling?

[Carl]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

I spent a lot of my trainspotting days at HNJ in the 80s so I'm really looking forward to your project. What period are you modelling?

I really love the run down 80s BR era, so I’m going for that feel.  My rolling stock varies from 70s through to today, but probably mainly 90s.  The whole area is relatively run down, even today, so I think it will be quite easy to make it work for non-specific time period.

 

If you have any particular memories of the time you were there, I would love to hear them.  And any photos would be gold!

[woodenhead]

I used to visit Levenshulme on my bike - services went something like DMU (108/104), EMU 304 (of course, nothing better) and then plenty of 86s plus the odd 81 or 85.

 

Sometimes we'd go down to Stockport where it was the same but with added 47s and 40s.

 

Would be wonderful to be back there in those days.

[Carl]

I love the 304s, my favourite probably, and I had /completely/ forgotten they ran here.  I tried to knock one up in N gauge a few years back without any great success, suppose I need to retry now!  Thanks for reminding me.

[montyburns56]

18 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I used to visit Levenshulme on my bike - services went something like DMU (108/104), EMU 304 (of course, nothing better) and then plenty of 86s plus the odd 81 or 85.

 

Sometimes we'd go down to Stockport where it was the same but with added 47s and 40s.

 

Would be wonderful to be back there in those days.

 

One of my most memorable spots was when I first saw a Class 33 at HNJ on the Cardiff to Piccadilly runs. I wasn't aware that they were running in the North West at the time, so it was quite jaw dropping.

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

I can remember when they only went to Crewe, first as Swindon Cross Country units leading to class 25s in the late 70s before the 33s moved west.

 

But what a picture - a 304, 33, 303 and a 110 - not an Inter City WCML train in sight.

[seahorse]

Am I too late to suggest a partial mirror-image?

 

Keep the viaduct on the left. Put the junction at the top, prototypically facing right after the viaduct, and all the fiddle yard at the bottom.

 

Or put the viaduct opposite the door ( for a great view when entering the room), the junction at the bottom, and fiddle yard to the left.

 

( actually I suspect that you did all this long ago and rejected it for all sorts of good reasons!!)

[woodenhead]

25 minutes ago, seahorse said:

Am I too late to suggest a partial mirror-image?

 

Keep the viaduct on the left. Put the junction at the top, prototypically facing right after the viaduct, and all the fiddle yard at the bottom.

 

Or put the viaduct opposite the door ( for a great view when entering the room), the junction at the bottom, and fiddle yard to the left.

 

( actually I suspect that you did all this long ago and rejected it for all sorts of good reasons!!)

I think reversing the junction to be right side of the viaduct would mean the Reddish branch boards block physical access to the fiddleyard boards to get to any trains that need a shove.  Then you've either to change the Reddish branch boards to a reversed S shape to access the fiddleyard again or send the trains back round hidden behind the viaduct which may then reduce the splendor of that view.

 

Think that door you are referring to is a cupboard, there is another closed door next to the viaduct.

[Carl]

Seahorse,

 

Yeah, I tried various options to getting the junction and viaduct in the correct orientation.

 

The practical problems were pretty much as Woodenhead mentioned - my main issue was that the Reddish branch ended up adjacent to the fiddle yard, and couldn't get the trains off the branch into the yard and leave enough length for the trains.

 

But, the deciding factor was pretty much aesthetics, I wanted the main scenic areas to the in the corner of the room that you enter from (where I've taken the photo above), and I'm happy with reversing the junction to achieve that and permit the kind of operation I'm after.

 

Thanks for thinking about it though, I was wondering if someone would come up with some way of organising it which fixes those issues!

[Carl]

On 26/01/2021 at 18:51, montyburns56 said:

 

One of my most memorable spots was when I first saw a Class 33 at HNJ on the Cardiff to Piccadilly runs. I wasn't aware that they were running in the North West at the time, so it was quite jaw dropping.

 

I don't have a class 33, but I do have a nice, weathered 31 that I know were around Manchester Piccadilly that I really love - I don't know if they ran through HNJ or not, but rule 1 and all that!

[montyburns56]

10 hours ago, Carl said:

 

I don't have a class 33, but I do have a nice, weathered 31 that I know were around Manchester Piccadilly that I really love - I don't know if they ran through HNJ or not, but rule 1 and all that!

 

They did, at least after the Hazel Grove Chord was built in 1986.

 

 

 

 

[Carl]

Today has seen the delivery of my code 40 track, and my DR5033 boosters.  Look at the hilarious amount of sleepers!

 

 

With the weather looking dodgy over the weekend, I should be able to get some track laid and some wiring started ...

Edited January 29, 2021 by Carl

[Carl]

A quick update.  Following another thread I started here over the weekend and the advice I received there, I've decided it's probably worth actually planning my wiring and track laying (in terms of isolated sections etc) properly, rather than following the gung ho approach I was originally going for!

 

 

I did make a start on the track laying, in the fiddle yard where the sections are pretty obvious.  I'm using Peco finescale track throughout the fiddle yard.

 

 

I covered the fiddle yard area with 3mm Plastazote foam which makes the whole thing look really tidy.  I used Copydex latex glue to glue the foam to the boards, and then glued the track to the foam.

 

The tracks through this section of the fiddle yard are at 1 inch spacings, which I realise makes it tight for actually fiddling, but I balanced the amount of storage I want vs the downside of that, and decided I am happy having to place stock onto the layout outside the fiddle yard - I have the Reddish branch which will allow me to do that, and trains will still be able to run around the layout while I do.

 

I originally laid these tracks as full lengths of 1 yard, but fortunately I did add droppers on each end of them.  I'm going to cut them down the middle, breaking them into two sections of about 450mm. I can add multiple occupancy detectors per block in TrainController, so I can have them act as though they are one block should that be necessary.

 

Once my rather large order of Digikeijs modules arrives, I can start connecting them up.  More details on that to follow!

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Carl

[Carl]

It's taken a while, but I have a progress report.

 

The north side of the fiddle yard is mainly laid, all the points are motorised and wired up, and have DCC busses running around all of the baseboards, ready for me to start laying track on the scenic sections.

 

It started out being a bit of a nightmare for me.  It was mostly caused by inadequate planning, combined with lack of experience - and skill! - but after the steep learning curve, things went more smoothly.  Again, the lesson learnt was plan, plan, plan.

 

Some areas of my fiddle yard are quite dense with point work.   I had a number of Cobalt point motors in stock from a few years back, and was already planning on using servos for any extras.  What I didn't plan was which motors I'd use in each location, but quickly found that I didn't have much choice in most cases.  Also, by this point I'd soldered dropper wires on both rails at the toe of each point, and a dropper wire for the frog, and drilled holes for them.  That's when I realised they'd sometimes clash where where the point motors had to go.

 

After I'd re-soldered some dropper wires to be in more appropriate locations, the next issue was that I had about a million dropper wires, and had to continuously re-check I had the correct ones for each section of track.  I wish I'd drawn a track diagram on the underside of the boards before I started, that would have saved me some time.  After I did this, things went a lot smoother.

 

On baseboard 1 (which is 4' x 2'), I have 6 Cobalts and 11 servos.   The Cobalts are the "classic" versions, and are connected to a AD8-fx decoder.  The 11 servos use Dingo Servo Micro 10 mounts, and are connected to Digikeijs DR4024 decoders.  There are three more points to be laid, but I'll come back to them - they lead to holding sidings, and aren't needed at this early stage.

 

Each section of track, points included, has occupancy detection via DR4018s, there are 47 sections on that board alone - at the start of this project, I thought 48 would be more than adequate for the entire layout!

 

Here's a couple of photos.  Two wires they said!

 

 

And the top side - which seems depressingly little compared to the time it took to lay it! :

 

 

The next step is to link the remaining tracks to this board, giving me 11 roads of storage.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Carl

[5BarVT]

41 minutes ago, Carl said:

Each section of track, points included, has occupancy detection via DR4018s, there are 47 sections on that board alone - at the start of this project, I thought 48 would be more than adequate for the entire layout!

 

Here's a couple of photos.  Two wires they said!

Automation is like that!

But it’s great fun when it all comes together. 
Paul. 

 

[Carl]

The big question on everyone's lips these days has nothing to do with pandemics, Meghan, or "how is that boat floating in mid-air?"[1].

 

It's "can you 3D print N gauge track bases?"  The answer seems to be, yes!

 

 

The total cost for the resin for this was about 50p (excluding some wastage, cleaning materials and of course, the time involved.)

 

The process for that design was to export the part of my track that I wanted to print from Templot as a .dxf.  First, I set the Generator settings in Templot to show the centre line of the rails.  Then, I imported the templates as .dxf into Autodesk Fusion 360.

 

The sleepers were extruded by 0.5mm, I added a 0.5mm base, then for each interception of rail centre and sleeper centre (except check rails, of course), I added a 0.95mm hole.  This matches British Finescale track.  This took a while, there is, like, two trillion of them.

 

I then exported that as a .stl.  I split the body into two parts at this point, since the print bed on my printer is only 115mm wide - the track base is about 195mm wide.

 

The slicing software I used was Chitubox.  I have one of the original Anycubic Photon resin printers.  The settings I used were 3 base layers, 60s exposure for the base layer.  Then 8s for all other layers.  I angled the base up at 8 degrees so the base doesn't get stuck to the print bed (see the outtake!) and an 8mm platform was added.  I probably didn't need 8mm though, certainly not after angling the base away from the bed.  I printed with a 0.05mm layer height.  The 8 degree slope is what accounts for the layer lines you can see on the prints.

 

About 2 hours later, boom - half of my track base.  I repeated the process for the other half, and the picture above is the result.

 

Now to drill out the chair holes, give it a dusting of grey primer and a careful sanding.  That should hide the layer lines.  Then to add the two trillion chairs to the two trillion holes, then work out a way to do the various K and V crossings.  Some 3D printed jigs are going to be needed I think.

 

Here's a few more photos :

 

 

 

And the promised outtake - printing completely horizontally meant that the base adhered more strongly to the resin vat than to the support.

 

 

 

[1]  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-56286719

Edited March 5, 2021 by Carl

[Wayne Kinney]

Really nice, Carl!

 

Are you going to stick to 3D printing now, over milling?

 

It is possible to print flat on the base plate so long as its really level and Z height set correctly. Here is my example with 3D printed chairs included (sorry for the crap photos):

 

[Carl]

OK, I need to up my game - that is quite remarkable!  As for whether to stick with 3D printing or milling, I was quite amazed at the fidelity of the print, and I think it's going to be sufficient.  It's only this one junction I need to custom build, everything else is on very high radius curves so I can use your regular track bases.

 

How did you produce the 3D file for your print above, I guess manually?

 

Either way, very impressive, and if I had the patience to model the chairs, I would probably give printing it a go.  (Especially since I need to order some FB chair sprues from you for a B8 base I have, as well as for my diamonds ...)

[Wayne Kinney]

Thanks Carl,

 

Yes, after exporting the DXF from templot, this is used to then start modelling in Solidworks. The chairs were modelled some years ago. Extruded the sleepers and added the webbing.

 

Chairs are then manually placed and oriented one by one in an 'assembly', using various Solidworks 'mates' to lock them into position. Would be great to have some kind of automatic method but I ain't no computer programmer...LOL  Only takes me about an hour to position the chairs though.

[Carl]

Hmm, interesting ...