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What Have You Done With Your South East Fincast Kit ?


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  • 2 months later...

1334071988_1-J38TenderSides.jpg.aa4bbc1bd99a99779373f682c87f36b3.jpgOn the assumption that (as the thread title suggests) we're talking about South Eastern Finecast rather than Wills Finecast kits, my answer is... "built it".  "It" in this case is the ex-LNER J38 which was not one of the original Wills range, but may have been derived from the similar J39 when that was upgraded around 30 years ago.  As it happens, I did create a J38 from an original Wills J39 kit many years previously, but that was sold off when I migrated to P4 and felt that my earlier 00 handiwork wasn't worth trying to rebuild.  That turned out to be a good decision: the original version was essentially a bodyline kit intended for a Tri-ang chassis, whereas the more recent kit No. F171 has an etched nickel-silver chassis with provision for the wider 4mm-scale gauges... or so I thought !

 

As I've said elsewhere, my MO with P4 tender locos (kit or conversion) is to tackle the tender first - the theory being that achieving success here will encourage progress with the engine.  First issue though was to find that the top edges of the tender sides weren't exactly straight -

1334071988_1-J38TenderSides.jpg.aa4bbc1bd99a99779373f682c87f36b3.jpg1334071988_1-J38TenderSides.jpg.aa4bbc1bd99a99779373f682c87f36b3.jpg1334071988_1-J38TenderSides.jpg.aa4bbc1bd99a99779373f682c87f36b3.jpg841264183_5-J38Tender.jpg.ff3ac63f3ba3a8194c2699118732712c.jpg841264183_5-J38Tender.jpg.ff3ac63f3ba3a8194c2699118732712c.jpg128674219_2-J38Tender.jpg.d3a063ba43d2700184b1eb97d40c2dff.jpg339629430_4-J38Tender.jpg.49b183709d5341bf7d8e54539b96da2b.jpg339629430_4-J38Tender.jpg.49b183709d5341bf7d8e54539b96da2b.jpg864991072_J38Chassis(4)inJig.jpg.c996b9ea09fa5a564ec1b7bf2100554c.jpg

- and this even shows on the kit-box photo.  So I filed off the top-edge beading and replaced it with 0.3mm brass wire soldered on with lowmelt... another first for me.  Here's the finished version -

841264183_5-J38Tender.jpg.ff3ac63f3ba3a8194c2699118732712c.jpg

- which I'm much happier with, and I think I've also managed to get a better shape to the front and rear cut-outs.

Next up was the tender chassis: for suspension I used Kean-Maygib sprung units which I'd had squirrelled away for decades, and simply used them glued on to the outside of the 00 subframes to allow for the wider gauge.  Following the example of my friend Don Rowland, I fitted tender-only pickups, connected to the engine with a miniature plug-and-socket: this shot of the underside shows the socket over the front axle -

128674219_2-J38Tender.jpg.d3a063ba43d2700184b1eb97d40c2dff.jpg

Following a discussion with a fellow modeller on the subject of over-heavy cast-whitemetal tenders, something else I did was to replace the tender internal floor and coal-space parts with 40-thou plasticard, the whole thing being assembled with cyano.  This reduced the overall tender weight by about 38grams, and partly shows here -

339629430_4-J38Tender.jpg.49b183709d5341bf7d8e54539b96da2b.jpg

The basis of the coal load is from an Airfix mineral wagon kit....

 

And so to the engine.  Here's the soldered-up chassis frame, with Kean-Maygib horn-blocks and axleboxes, in my Poppy's jig -

864991072_J38Chassis(4)inJig.jpg.c996b9ea09fa5a564ec1b7bf2100554c.jpg

I dutifully used the EM/P4 frame spacers provided in the kit, but... when it came to offering up the motor/gearbox assembly (Mashima 1426 with HighLevel 60:1 Roadrunner) I found the frames were too close together -

1621041328_J38Chassis(5).jpg.d24528f58015b4eb0bd4d23be33dd5cf.jpg

I considered using a narrower motor and a SlimLine gearbox, but the J38 is BR Power Class 6 and I really wanted the power of the planned 1426.  So the radical solution I came up with was to saw the whole chassis in half lengthways, and then re-assemble it in my Poppy's jig to keep everything square.  To hold the frames the right distance apart I used the tubular brass 00 spacers at each end, packed out with washers and one of those little brass knobbly bits you get on the ends of steel guitar strings (useful as they're 2mm ID) -

1269217140_J38Chassis(5c).jpg.155966d2ecb72aa5dd057088642b5fdd.jpg

I then soldered the otherwise-redundant 00 frame spacers to the stubs of the EM/P4 ones, viz -

1375905581_J38Chassis(6a).jpg.2489df9b06f7fe108e2bc802d42e4e1c.jpg

- and re-inforced the joints by drilling 1mm holes and soldering in wee "rivets" of 0.9mm brass wire.

 

After all this, assembly of the motor/gearbox on to the rear driving axle along with Gibson wheels and crankpins was relatively straightforward, and after plenty running-in round the Newton Duns circuit she runs beautifully - right down to an almost imperceptible crawl.

 

Construction of the loco body (cyano again) didn't cause any particular problems - apart from making sure that the running-boards were properly straight, so I built up the body on a small piece of plate glass and bits of packing to ensure that everything ended up square -

1710673797_J38LocoBuild.jpg.b7e5c0733f6a613d38f5f6253ac0a294.jpg

- well, nearly !

In some ways, it's the finishing touches that take the time - handrails (especially the curved one over the front of the smokebox), lamp-irons, brake-gear, sand-pipes etc.  Just a front vacuum-bag and some fine wire for the lubricator pipes to add, and then she'll be ready for the paint shop -

1101751838_J38almostfinished.jpg.4374755236a2a5d552b2a6479f04c67b.jpg

Overall, quite a satisfying build, and I was able to practise some techniques new to me - as well as learning critical things like whether the chosen motor/gearbox will actually fit...!

 

Alasdair

 

 

 

Edited by AJCT
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One thing that does surprise is the variance in EM and P4 frame spacers. It seems various manufacturers have their own take on them. Some have a universal one size fits all, others have separate ones, even with these there are variances in size. 

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3 hours ago, hayfield said:

Alasdair

 

A super concise and very interesting build showing some good alternative methods in chassis building, I just hope I can remember them

 

Thank you

You're welcome... I don't claim any great skill or expertise, but the saw-it-in-half idea just seemed like a pragmatic solution to the chassis-width problem.  It might work for converting a kit-built 00 loco chassis to P4: I have a Kemilway etched one for the BR 4MT 2-6-0 built as 00 aeons ago, and that might be the way forward there.

Anent spacers... the former Eastfield Models (now NB 4mm Developments) chassis kits for NBR locos like the J36 and J37 included 3 sets of spacers for 00, EM and P4 - so I might be able to redeploy the non-P4 ones I have left over, for the afore-mentioned BR 4MT.

 

Alasdair

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Another one to add to the Flatiron collection. This was one I built to replace one that had sadly been pinched at an exhibition.

 

It should be possible to tell that it is in EM Gauge from the rather well known layout it was posed on for the photos.

 

The basic camera and the poor lighting in the shed combine to make the colours look a bit odd. They are better in "real life".

 

1816979263_FullcardclearOlympus27July2020726.JPG.420e7d9f73f5bebd2b5bd68a1dd8ad4d.JPG

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On 15/06/2021 at 12:50, t-b-g said:

Another one to add to the Flatiron collection. This was one I built to replace one that had sadly been pinched at an exhibition.

 

It should be possible to tell that it is in EM Gauge from the rather well known layout it was posed on for the photos.

 

The basic camera and the poor lighting in the shed combine to make the colours look a bit odd. They are better in "real life".

 

1816979263_FullcardclearOlympus27July2020726.JPG.420e7d9f73f5bebd2b5bd68a1dd8ad4d.JPG

That is a very nice model, Tony.

My effort is very similar.  I used the tank sides and footplate from the kit, fashioned the boiler out of tube to give me a model of the engine as built and running in 1907/08, with a round top firebox and a saturated engine  (smokebox flush with the front of the tanks).

I scratch built the main frames and made the mistake of making them almost scale width, so the engine tends to squeal when taking the curves approaching Kirkby Malham.  It runs much better in reverse, a bit like the prototype.  Like yours, built for EM gauge.

Derek

 

 

 

7CE211FF-7C3D-4B27-BDF5-EAE5BB8997BE.jpeg.482d07495189baf285a8173ffacf4779.jpeg

BB01EC6F-05D6-4353-9DEC-96F9AADA398E.jpeg

Edited by Mrkirtley800
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32 minutes ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

That is a very nice model, Tony.

My effort is very similar.  I used the tank sides and footplate from the kit, fashioned the boiler out of tube to give me a model of the engine as built and running in 1907/08, with a round top firebox and a saturated engine  (smokebox flush with the front of the tanks).

I scratch built the main frames and made the mistake of making them almost scale width, so the engine tends to squeal when taking the curves approaching Kirkby Malham.  It runs much better in reverse, a bit like the prototype.  Like yours, built for EM gauge.

Derek

 

 

 

7CE211FF-7C3D-4B27-BDF5-EAE5BB8997BE.jpeg.482d07495189baf285a8173ffacf4779.jpeg

BB01EC6F-05D6-4353-9DEC-96F9AADA398E.jpeg

 

Thanks Derek.

 

Mine was probably a more recent kit and came with alternative parts for round top or Belpaire fireboxes. It also had a nice set of etched nickel silver frames.

 

They must be far more well liked in model form than the prototype locos seem to have been but they are not the easiest with that huge rear overhang.

 

Whose Midland Red do you use? You must have put it on here before somewhere but I don't recall. I have a few MR locos to make to haul the carriages I now have that were from the late Sid Stubbs and your loco looks a very good match for what he used.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

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Well, I just did some silly stuff, though it is a model of a real loco. 

 

 

Sorry its on Flikr , which is now really a junk site full of ads . 

 

However it does show how nasty I am to kits .... 

 

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On 14/06/2021 at 22:00, AJCT said:

On the assumption that (as the thread title suggests) we're talking about South Eastern Finecast rather than Wills Finecast kits, my answer is... "built it".  "It" in this case is the ex-LNER J38 which was not one of the original Wills range, but may have been derived from the similar J39 when that was upgraded around 30 years ago.  As it happens, I did create a J38 from an original Wills J39 kit many years previously, but that was sold off when I migrated to P4 and felt that my earlier 00 handiwork wasn't worth trying to rebuild.  That turned out to be a good decision: the original version was essentially a bodyline kit intended for a Tri-ang chassis, whereas the more recent kit No. F171 has an etched nickel-silver chassis with provision for the wider 4mm-scale gauges... or so I thought !

 

As I've said elsewhere, my MO with P4 tender locos (kit or conversion) is to tackle the tender first - the theory being that achieving success here will encourage progress with the engine.  First issue though was to find that the top edges of the tender sides weren't exactly straight -

1334071988_1-J38TenderSides.jpg.aa4bbc1bd99a99779373f682c87f36b3.jpg

- and this even shows on the kit-box photo.  So I filed off the top-edge beading and replaced it with 0.3mm brass wire soldered on with lowmelt... another first for me.  Here's the finished version -

841264183_5-J38Tender.jpg.ff3ac63f3ba3a8194c2699118732712c.jpg

- which I'm much happier with, and I think I've also managed to get a better shape to the front and rear cut-outs.

Next up was the tender chassis: for suspension I used Kean-Maygib sprung units which I'd had squirrelled away for decades, and simply used them glued on to the outside of the 00 subframes to allow for the wider gauge.  Following the example of my friend Don Rowland, I fitted tender-only pickups, connected to the engine with a miniature plug-and-socket: this shot of the underside shows the socket over the front axle -

128674219_2-J38Tender.jpg.d3a063ba43d2700184b1eb97d40c2dff.jpg

Following a discussion with a fellow modeller on the subject of over-heavy cast-whitemetal tenders, something else I did was to replace the tender internal floor and coal-space parts with 40-thou plasticard, the whole thing being assembled with cyano.  This reduced the overall tender weight by about 38grams, and partly shows here -

339629430_4-J38Tender.jpg.49b183709d5341bf7d8e54539b96da2b.jpg

The basis of the coal load is from an Airfix mineral wagon kit....

 

And so to the engine.  Here's the soldered-up chassis frame, with Kean-Maygib horn-blocks and axleboxes, in my Poppy's jig -

864991072_J38Chassis(4)inJig.jpg.c996b9ea09fa5a564ec1b7bf2100554c.jpg

I dutifully used the EM/P4 frame spacers provided in the kit, but... when it came to offering up the motor/gearbox assembly (Mashima 1426 with HighLevel 60:1 Roadrunner) I found the frames were too close together -

1621041328_J38Chassis(5).jpg.d24528f58015b4eb0bd4d23be33dd5cf.jpg

I considered using a narrower motor and a SlimLine gearbox, but the J38 is BR Power Class 6 and I really wanted the power of the planned 1426.  So the radical solution I came up with was to saw the whole chassis in half lengthways, and then re-assemble it in my Poppy's jig to keep everything square.  To hold the frames the right distance apart I used the tubular brass 00 spacers at each end, packed out with washers and one of those little brass knobbly bits you get on the ends of steel guitar strings (useful as they're 2mm ID) -

1269217140_J38Chassis(5c).jpg.155966d2ecb72aa5dd057088642b5fdd.jpg

I then soldered the otherwise-redundant 00 frame spacers to the stubs of the EM/P4 ones, viz -

1375905581_J38Chassis(6a).jpg.2489df9b06f7fe108e2bc802d42e4e1c.jpg

- and re-inforced the joints by drilling 1mm holes and soldering in wee "rivets" of 0.9mm brass wire.

 

After all this, assembly of the motor/gearbox on to the rear driving axle along with Gibson wheels and crankpins was relatively straightforward, and after plenty running-in round the Newton Duns circuit she runs beautifully - right down to an almost imperceptible crawl.

 

Construction of the loco body (cyano again) didn't cause any particular problems - apart from making sure that the running-boards were properly straight, so I built up the body on a small piece of plate glass and bits of packing to ensure that everything ended up square -

1710673797_J38LocoBuild.jpg.b7e5c0733f6a613d38f5f6253ac0a294.jpg

- well, nearly !

In some ways, it's the finishing touches that take the time - handrails (especially the curved one over the front of the smokebox), lamp-irons, brake-gear, sand-pipes etc.  Just a front vacuum-bag and some fine wire for the lubricator pipes to add, and then she'll be ready for the paint shop -

1101751838_J38almostfinished.jpg.4374755236a2a5d552b2a6479f04c67b.jpg

Overall, quite a satisfying build, and I was able to practise some techniques new to me - as well as learning critical things like whether the chosen motor/gearbox will actually fit...!

 

Alasdair

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks Derek.

 

Mine was probably a more recent kit and came with alternative parts for round top or Belpaire fireboxes. It also had a nice set of etched nickel silver frames.

 

They must be far more well liked in model form than the prototype locos seem to have been but they are not the easiest with that huge rear overhang.

 

Whose Midland Red do you use? You must have put it on here before somewhere but I don't recall. I have a few MR locos to make to haul the carriages I now have that were from the late Sid Stubbs and your loco looks a very good match for what he used.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

I use Damask Red, which was, I think, a BritishLeyland colour.

My youngest son has built a number or Midland carriages in 0 gauge, and painted them using this colour from a spray can, and they look superb.

Derek

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5 minutes ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

I use Damask Red, which was, I think, a BritishLeyland colour.

My youngest son has built a number or Midland carriages in 0 gauge, and painted them using this colour from a spray can, and they look superb.

Derek

 

Thanks Derek. I have used that one before with success but last time I went to Halfords they didn't have any. I was advised that Ford Burgundy Red was close and the colour on the cap looked right but it wasn't as nice a colour as yours look.

 

I will have to start searching for the "proper" one.

 

I have some Midland O Gauge ones to do too. Some Slaters 6 wheelers, some of the same chopped about to make short bogie carriages and an etched brass clerestory. It makes my mouth water just thinking about them and that comes from a GCR man!

 

 

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5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks Derek. I have used that one before with success but last time I went to Halfords they didn't have any. I was advised that Ford Burgundy Red was close and the colour on the cap looked right but it wasn't as nice a colour as yours look.

 

I will have to start searching for the "proper" one.

 

I have some Midland O Gauge ones to do too. Some Slaters 6 wheelers, some of the same chopped about to make short bogie carriages and an etched brass clerestory. It makes my mouth water just thinking about them and that comes from a GCR man!

 

 

My Rover is "Damask red" on the paint code so try a strictly Rover colour. And I have used the leftover touch-up cans as LMS/Midland/BR red...:D

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13 minutes ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

Tony,

      Some piccies of my youngest sons 0 gauge carriages, with two more on the stocks

Derek

 

 

 

FF0A0636-7790-4B70-B62B-B0C03A5D9C39.jpeg.e706accbd5f0b0e169c3c677c2477cf4.jpeg

AA49C819-68B4-4662-922E-C27AB8D2A0B9.jpeg.b55d93eb167e249c52988e5b06bda01c.jpeg

 

 

Lovely Derek. The way the light catches the carriage in that second picture is just gorgeous. It almost glows.

 

I will be happy if I can get mine even close to that finish.

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14 minutes ago, 33C said:

My Rover is "Damask red" on the paint code so try a strictly Rover colour. And I have used the leftover touch-up cans as LMS/Midland/BR red...:D

 

I have been fooled more than once by Halfords paints with the colour of the paint being nothing like the colour on the lid. An attempt at District Railway loco green needed a full repaint after a can with the right colour on the lid left the locos looking turquoise!

 

I Have an old, used up can of Damask Red and the lid of the Ford Burgundy Red is exactly the same colour as the lid of the Damask Red can but what is inside is not quite the same. Close but not close enough.

 

I will settle for nothing less that the Rover Damask Red next time.

 

Although I do have an airbrush and several different commercial LMS and Midland Reds from Humbrol, Precision and Railmatch (the last one being the best to my eyes) , so perhaps a rattle can is being lazy!

Edited by t-b-g
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I try and find n.o.s. cans at bootsales, usually 5 for a quid. The newer stuff, as you say, never matches the lid. I give my kids money to shake the cr*p out of them, and then let them stand for 5 mins. (Kids and cans). Spray a test piece of plastic sheet first to check, a) consistency,  b) reaction, c) thickness of coat and d) hue. Only one failure so far with a blue. (Would not dry?) :scratchhead:

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16 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Although I do have an airbrush and several different commercial LMS and Midland Reds from Humbrol, Precision and Railmatch (the last one being the best to my eyes) , so perhaps a rattle can is being lazy!

 

Hmm. Very interesting.

 

I've never tried Railmatch and I've noticed it's a bit more readily available than Precision from model shops. Must have a try of it.

 

 

Precision is excellent, but I'm not paying £7 or so for courier delivery unless I was buying something substantial such as a loco kit. I'll wait until exhibitions are back on again and stock up on them then.

 

 

Jason

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8 hours ago, 33C said:

I try and find n.o.s. cans at bootsales, usually 5 for a quid. The newer stuff, as you say, never matches the lid. I give my kids money to shake the cr*p out of them, and then let them stand for 5 mins. (Kids and cans). Spray a test piece of plastic sheet first to check, a) consistency,  b) reaction, c) thickness of coat and d) hue. Only one failure so far with a blue. (Would not dry?) :scratchhead:

 

Sounds an interesting plan! I was once recommended to warm the tins in addition to the shaking, so I stand them in warm water (not too hot). It is hard to know if it makes a difference as I haven't compared it to using them cold or at room temperature but I get good results so it isn't doing any harm.

 

All I need now is a car boot sale and a mug, sorry volunteer, to do the shaking for me.

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On 18/06/2021 at 11:14, Pebbles said:

It would be useful to know what adhesive you used for attaching the Kean-Maygib sprung units.

Just super-glue - I'm no expert on this, so for a long time I've just used ordinary "Loctite" for everything, and so far it's all stayed stuck.  I usually go for those little "Mini Trio" 3-packs of 1gm tubes, as I've found the hard way that any bigger size of tube goes hard long before I finish it...!  I probably used a glass-fibre brush to clean up the mating surfaces of the black plastic hornblocks and the related part of the frame before applying the glue.

On the loco, I also drilled through the corners of the frame cutouts and inserted wee set-screws (14BA I think) which self-tapped into holes drilled into the plastic hornblocks as belt-and-braces after super-gluing -

423421354_J38Chassis(9a).jpg.a018f767eb67d5b873d90ac4fabe3115.jpg

Another trick I learned some time back with the KM units is to ease the side-slots a little and polish up the sides of the brass axle-boxes with a fine file, to ensure that they slide freely up and down (should move by gravity) before fitting the tiny springs and the retaining links.

 

Usual disclaimers for any products mentioned here and earlier.

 

HTH -

 

Alasdair

 

 

Edited by AJCT
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2 hours ago, AJCT said:

Just super-glue - I'm no expert on this, so for a long time I've just used ordinary "Loctite" for everything, and so far it's all stayed stuck.  I usually go for those little "Mini Trio" 3-packs of 1gm tubes, as I've found the hard way that any bigger size of tube goes hard long before I finish it...!  I probably used a glass-fibre brush to clean up the mating surfaces of the black plastic hornblocks and the related part of the frame before applying the glue.

On the loco, I also drilled through the corners of the frame cutouts and inserted wee set-screws (14BA I think) which self-tapped into holes drilled into the plastic hornblocks as belt-and-braces after super-gluing -

423421354_J38Chassis(9a).jpg.a018f767eb67d5b873d90ac4fabe3115.jpg

Another trick I learned some time back with the KM units is to ease the side-slots a little and polish up the sides of the brass axle-boxes with a fine file, to ensure that they slide freely up and down (should move by gravity) before fitting the tiny springs and the retaining links.

 

Usual disclaimers for any products mentioned here and earlier.

 

HTH -

 

Alasdair

 

 

Many thanks for the explanation. I have a number of these units that I'm rather loathed not to use. My main issue with glue has been possible delamination when soldering and whilst using small screws appeared to be a way forward the price of 14BA screws almost made it cheaper to use Highlevel hornblocks.  I have now obtained some counter sunk M1 self tapping screws that are a much cheaper option.   

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50 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Many thanks for the explanation. I have a number of these units that I'm rather loathed not to use. My main issue with glue has been possible delamination when soldering and whilst using small screws appeared to be a way forward the price of 14BA screws almost made it cheaper to use Highlevel hornblocks.  I have now obtained some counter sunk M1 self tapping screws that are a much cheaper option.   

You're welcome... this is the 3rd loco I've built (admittedly all 0-6-0-tender) with these KM units and they all run beautifully over my track, which I wouldn't describe as any better than "reasonable".  Thanks for the tip about the M1 S/T screws - may follow that up.

 

Cheers -

 

Alasdair

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