What Have You Done With Your South East Fincast Kit ?

[ScottW]

On 14/06/2021 at 22:00, AJCT said:

On the assumption that (as the thread title suggests) we're talking about South Eastern Finecast rather than Wills Finecast kits, my answer is... "built it".  "It" in this case is the ex-LNER J38 which was not one of the original Wills range, but may have been derived from the similar J39 when that was upgraded around 30 years ago.  As it happens, I did create a J38 from an original Wills J39 kit many years previously, but that was sold off when I migrated to P4 and felt that my earlier 00 handiwork wasn't worth trying to rebuild.  That turned out to be a good decision: the original version was essentially a bodyline kit intended for a Tri-ang chassis, whereas the more recent kit No. F171 has an etched nickel-silver chassis with provision for the wider 4mm-scale gauges... or so I thought !

 

As I've said elsewhere, my MO with P4 tender locos (kit or conversion) is to tackle the tender first - the theory being that achieving success here will encourage progress with the engine.  First issue though was to find that the top edges of the tender sides weren't exactly straight -

- and this even shows on the kit-box photo.  So I filed off the top-edge beading and replaced it with 0.3mm brass wire soldered on with lowmelt... another first for me.  Here's the finished version -

- which I'm much happier with, and I think I've also managed to get a better shape to the front and rear cut-outs.

Next up was the tender chassis: for suspension I used Kean-Maygib sprung units which I'd had squirrelled away for decades, and simply used them glued on to the outside of the 00 subframes to allow for the wider gauge.  Following the example of my friend Don Rowland, I fitted tender-only pickups, connected to the engine with a miniature plug-and-socket: this shot of the underside shows the socket over the front axle -

Following a discussion with a fellow modeller on the subject of over-heavy cast-whitemetal tenders, something else I did was to replace the tender internal floor and coal-space parts with 40-thou plasticard, the whole thing being assembled with cyano.  This reduced the overall tender weight by about 38grams, and partly shows here -

The basis of the coal load is from an Airfix mineral wagon kit....

 

And so to the engine.  Here's the soldered-up chassis frame, with Kean-Maygib horn-blocks and axleboxes, in my Poppy's jig -

I dutifully used the EM/P4 frame spacers provided in the kit, but... when it came to offering up the motor/gearbox assembly (Mashima 1426 with HighLevel 60:1 Roadrunner) I found the frames were too close together -

I considered using a narrower motor and a SlimLine gearbox, but the J38 is BR Power Class 6 and I really wanted the power of the planned 1426.  So the radical solution I came up with was to saw the whole chassis in half lengthways, and then re-assemble it in my Poppy's jig to keep everything square.  To hold the frames the right distance apart I used the tubular brass 00 spacers at each end, packed out with washers and one of those little brass knobbly bits you get on the ends of steel guitar strings (useful as they're 2mm ID) -

I then soldered the otherwise-redundant 00 frame spacers to the stubs of the EM/P4 ones, viz -

- and re-inforced the joints by drilling 1mm holes and soldering in wee "rivets" of 0.9mm brass wire.

 

After all this, assembly of the motor/gearbox on to the rear driving axle along with Gibson wheels and crankpins was relatively straightforward, and after plenty running-in round the Newton Duns circuit she runs beautifully - right down to an almost imperceptible crawl.

 

Construction of the loco body (cyano again) didn't cause any particular problems - apart from making sure that the running-boards were properly straight, so I built up the body on a small piece of plate glass and bits of packing to ensure that everything ended up square -

- well, nearly !

In some ways, it's the finishing touches that take the time - handrails (especially the curved one over the front of the smokebox), lamp-irons, brake-gear, sand-pipes etc.  Just a front vacuum-bag and some fine wire for the lubricator pipes to add, and then she'll be ready for the paint shop -

Overall, quite a satisfying build, and I was able to practise some techniques new to me - as well as learning critical things like whether the chosen motor/gearbox will actually fit...!

 

Alasdair

 

 

 

 

Superb account and a lovely build. I'll look forward to seeing the finished article.

 

Scott

[hayfield]

On 18/06/2021 at 00:16, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks Derek.

 

Mine was probably a more recent kit and came with alternative parts for round top or Belpaire fireboxes. It also had a nice set of etched nickel silver frames.

 

They must be far more well liked in model form than the prototype locos seem to have been but they are not the easiest with that huge rear overhang.

 

Whose Midland Red do you use? You must have put it on here before somewhere but I don't recall. I have a few MR locos to make to haul the carriages I now have that were from the late Sid Stubbs and your loco looks a very good match for what he used.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

Southeastern Finecast now have a bespoke etched brass Flatiron chassis rather than using the FC202 Jinty chassis

 

 

Seemingly the frame spacers are either 00 or P4

 

 

There is also an etch to alter the body to one of three variations according to date modelled 

Edited June 20, 2021 by hayfield

[t-b-g]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Southeastern Finecast now have a bespoke etched brass Flatiron chassis rather than using the FC202 Jinty chassis

 

 

Seemingly the frame spacers are either 00 or P4

 

 

There is also an etch to alter the body to one of three variations according to date modelled 

 

Thanks.

 

That is the version I built.

 

I can't remember which frame spacers I used, as the one I did was in EM. My recollection is that I looked at the P4 spacers and decided that there was enough sideplay in EM to allow them to be used but the old memory isn't what it used to be and it is maybe 3 or 4  years ago now. 

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks.

 

That is the version I built.

 

I can't remember which frame spacers I used, as the one I did was in EM. My recollection is that I looked at the P4 spacers and decided that there was enough sideplay in EM to allow them to be used but the old memory isn't what it used to be and it is maybe 3 or 4  years ago now. 

There is only 1 set of frame spacers for the Flatiron, which are 14.6mm wide, they can be trimmed to 12mm for 00. I do have a FC202 in EM gauge with frame spacers at 13.6mm. As the frame spacers have etched lines either side of the spacers, reducing one side only will be OK for EM

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

There is only 1 set of frame spacers for the Flatiron, which are 14.6mm wide, they can be trimmed to 12mm for 00. I do have a FC202 in EM gauge with frame spacers at 13.6mm. As the frame spacers have etched lines either side of the spacers, reducing one side only will be OK for EM

 

As I say I can't remember what I did do but I can be certain that I wouldn't have removed material from one side.

 

My OCD when it comes to symmetry would never have allowed me to do that!

 

My instinct tells me that the P4 spacers at 14.6mm plus frames would work for EM. As there are half etched slots in the frames, they only add one metal thickness in total and with a 16.5mm back to back, it would still allow a bit for bearings and sideplay. You would need thin "rims" on the top hat bearings on the centre wheels but that is what I usually do anyway. I prefer wider frames if possible as I don't like to see a big gap between wheel and frame. The attached photo shows the sort of gap I aim for in EM. This one is a GCR Class 4-4-2T and being 4 coupled needs no sideplay on the driving wheels.

 

 

 

[hayfield]

Back to back with EM gauge wheels is 16.5mm. Alan Gibson EM gauge spacers come in at 13.82mm, Mainly Trains spacers are much the same. Comet are 13.5

Perseverance P4  14.96  EM 13.75  00 11.55. All this proves there is no standard.

 

At 14.6 it would work, especially if the wheel bearings have thin flanges and limited side play is OK. But as I have no instruction sheet, and the spacers have etched lines both sides there must be a reason for them. Usually SEF supplies 00 and EM/P4 spacers (E5 has 12.9 and 10,9) but the etched chassis have various designers so I assume its all down to personal preference.

 

The main point is "does it work" !!!

[Johnsy]

To follow-on from Dave John’s posting earlier, here is another Caledonian crane tank for your delectation.  I should perhaps give warning that what follows is a matter of base bodging rather than precision model making.

 

 

 

The loco looks delightful, but when it comes to making it run, the weight distribution is diabolical.  The wheelbase is (correctly) well to the front of the engine, which means that there is a long and heavy rear overhang.  The kit came with a choice of two white-metal cabs, a simple one that is rather heavy and would make things worse, and a bigger one that is even heavier!  By good fortune the Caledonian’s crane tank had a cab different from either of these two, so I fitted a lightweight brass version.  Despite this, and other attempts to adjust the balance, the loco tends to drop its rear wheels into any crossing gap, generally lose electrical contact and jerk to a halt in a most undignified fashion (well, it did on Peco code 100 insulfrogs anyway).

 

As you can see, the crane has acquired a tender.  This would not have been unusual on the Caledonian.  Many of the Caley’s 0-4-0 and smaller 0-6-0 pugs ran with a simple tender to carry extra coal, tools and spares and to provide the crew with somewhere to keep their jeely pieces (aka – jam sandwiches).  I must confess that I have no reason to believe that this crane tank ran with such a tender: equally, I have no reason to believe that it did not and that is good enough for me.

 

 

The loco and the tender are joined by a heavy brass drawbar that pivots at both ends.  The pivot screw under the tender is tightened to the extent that horizontal rotation is free but there is only slight vertical movement of the drawbar.  The relative heights of the pivot points on the loco and tender are set so that whenever the rear of the loco drops by more than a tiny amount the weight is transferred to the drawbar.  The tender is built on an old Bachmann wagon chassis (it was new at the time!) with their split-axle wheels.  These stub axles are used to provide extra electrical pick-up for the loco.  The loco now runs smoothly over pointwork, with only a delicate dip of her derriere as she negotiates the crossings.

 

I know that it is rather anachronistic for the St Rollox works shunter in 1904ish to be pulling a wagon with an RCH chassis from 1923, but the Caledonian were always in the forefront of developments (and it was easy place to start from!).

 

Johnsy

(A fifer in exile on the Costa Clyde)