Hornby Class 153 jerky at low speeds

[anthony allen]

I have purchased a second-hand Hornby class 153 in 00 gauge with a loksound decoder and everything works wonderfully well.

 

It does however have jerky movements at low speeds and I am sure that I have seen something before on the forum which corrects this using a minor change to a couple of the CVs – 53/54?

 

for the life of me I cannot seem to find it so I wonder if anybody has had a similar problem and has had success in overcoming it and could pass on their wisdom

 

many thanks

[anthony allen]

thanks Richard I have a V4 I will try that

[anthony allen]

Richard thanks that has certifiably improved matters

 

Its still a bit jerky speed step 1 and 2 but 3 and above its much better so thanks - I will give everything a good clean and a light lubrication and see if that helps also

 

cheers for responding

[wiggy1]

Drop CV52 down to a low number (below 5) bit by bit or even down to zero and see how it goes.

Make a note of the settings before you do anything in CV's 52, 53(should be about 120), 54 and 55.

 

Wiggy.

[charliepetty]

Who's sound file is on the decoder ???

 

Charlie DCkits-Legomanbiffo

[anthony allen]

Thanks Wiggy 1 I will try that too

 

Charlie its a legomanbiffo sound file

[Izzy]

13 hours ago, anthony allen said:

Its still a bit jerky speed step 1 and 2 but 3 and above its much better so thanks - I will give everything a good clean and a light lubrication and see if that helps also

I don’t know what motor unit is in this but, if it is anything like the Railroad unit in my class 31 then nothing you will do, nor any decoder you try, will improve it. Even fitting another motor (entirely different make) made no difference. After much fiddling around I found it came down to the actual gearing, that the form size and ratio meant no matter how slow the motor could turn over, the wheels ‘cogged’ between gear tooth movement until the rpm was above a certain level. 

[anthony allen]

Izzy thanks for the post its not in the rail road range but you may be right!

[charliepetty]

4 hours ago, anthony allen said:

Thanks Wiggy 1 I will try that too

 

Charlie its a legomanbiffo sound file

IF you do not sort it out, send me your model.  I will sort it.

Please note the Hornby motors in these & the Class 156 are simply 'Cheap'

 

Charlie

[anthony allen]

charlie thanks I will let you know - what would be the cost associated with "sorting it"

[charliepetty]

On 28/01/2021 at 14:51, anthony allen said:

charlie thanks I will let you know - what would be the cost associated with "sorting it"

Not 100% sure, normally at take 30Mins +  So including postage, no more that £15.00

[anthony allen]

Charlie that seems very fair - all of the help I have received on the Forum means it runs ok from speed step 2 upwards but is still  jerky on step 1 and a little bit on step 2

 

do you think you could resolve that ?

 

 

[charliepetty]

How does it run on annalogue, as a faulty motor is a faulty motor.

 

Charlie

[Ravenser]

On 28/01/2021 at 08:48, Izzy said:

I don’t know what motor unit is in this but, if it is anything like the Railroad unit in my class 31 then nothing you will do, nor any decoder you try, will improve it. Even fitting another motor (entirely different make) made no difference. After much fiddling around I found it came down to the actual gearing, that the form size and ratio meant no matter how slow the motor could turn over, the wheels ‘cogged’ between gear tooth movement until the rpm was above a certain level. 

 

 

I have 3 x 153, 1 x 156 and 1 x 101 . All have run remarkably well over many years and at a practical level I rate this motor bogie highly, as significantly better than a Black Beetle and vastly better than the old Ringfield mechanisms. Slow speed running has been very good.

 

I note Charlie's comments about cheap motors being employed, so if the motor itself is a wrong 'un in terms of you getting a dud unit, there may be a possible issue. The Cl 31 Railroad motor is a different unit altogether - it's 6 wheel . And I don't really expect the "Limby" 4 wheel motor bogie to shift 12 cars

 

But under normal circumstances the 4 wheel motor bogie is a very smooth running unit giving excellent slow speed - so I suspect either a CV tweak is needed or you have a dud motor in this one

 

I haven't put sound in any of mine . The 153s all have TCS T1s, the 156 a cheap Lenz/Bachmann decoder, and I strongly suspect the 101 is a T1 as well, though I can't find the relevant data sheet. (I don't "gold-plate" my DCC, as will be obvious)

[Izzy]

On 31/01/2021 at 12:15, Ravenser said:

 

The Cl 31 Railroad motor is a different unit altogether - it's 6 wheel .

 

Actually, in essence it isn't. I have a feeling it's just the same basic design as the 4-wheel units stretched to suit the longer wheelbase. As with the prototype the middle wheels are smaller and free revolving. The motor is quite okay, very strong and powerful.

 

 

 

The issue sems to be the size of the gear teeth relative to the gear reduction (16-1). Were they smaller, or the reduction greater, I think the 'cogging/juddering' I experience at S/S 1&2  (of 28) would probably be less. Doesn't matter the decoder used - Zimo's etc produce the same effect - as does fitting an alternative motor. I tried a Mitsumi with Romford worms (20-1 size is same DP/Mod it seemed).

 

 

 

Just the same.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Izzy
add image

[TomScrut]

Sorry for bringing this thread back to life, but I am on my 2nd Northern 153 (sold the first, regretted it, bought another) and the first was bad at low speed with a Gaugemaster decoder (I presumed it was the decoder), this one I have a Lokpilot 5 in, and tweaked the CVs to get it nice and smooth running from low speeds. The only niggle is it seems high geared or something, as in if I have mine voltage at 2 then it won't move. 3 it moves and is moving probably about 5mph. Most of my stuff I can get it running all the way down to crawling slowly.

 

Is it that this gearbox/motor combination is highly geared so once the motor is providing enough to overcome resistance it's moving quickly or should I spend more time faffing with the low speed BEMF CVs? Or would having it to bits and making sure it was adequately lubricated be the best thing to try first? Once it is moving it is absolutely fine, it is just that it's either 0mph or 5mph nothing in-between.

[Mike Buckner]

I have 3 Hornby class 153 and one Hornby class 156.

 

The first two class 153 models I bought, and the class 156, were very early Sanda Kan models. They run smoothly and I am satisfied - sometimes (very) slight grinding on speed step 1 - I can live with this.

 

The third class 153 is a little bit less smooth - grinds on speed steps 1 and 2 - again not enough of a problem to make me want to sell it.

 

They are all certainly high-geared.

 

More recently, I bought a Hornby spare motor bogie for a Hornby class 156, intending to fit it when I get time to a really old Hornby class 155. It was available at a good price. The design of this motor bogie is completely different from the earlier design. In particular, it now has two dark tyres on diagonally opposite wheels. When I get around to fitting it, I will report back on smoothness.

 

I suspect this means that recent production runs of established models powered by a 4-wheel motor bogie are using a different manufacturer. I don't yet have experience of how well they perform.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Mike Buckner
said tyres when I meant wheels