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LNER Banana Van announced!!


Garethp8873
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There's a rather large spider about the size of a small dog (only joking) on show in the National Museum of Wales that DID come in lurking in a bunch (or is it hand) of bananas - quite lively too apparently before it was ... err .... caught. It's years since I saw it, but I assume it came in aboard a Geest ship at Barry.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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9 hours ago, D9001 said:

Okay, genuine question; were tarantulas unwelcome but common “cargo” in the banana bunches in these vans? 

 

My Dad worked in a Co-op grocery/butchers in the 60's and tells a tale of a huge spider emerging from bunches of newly delivered bananas. He went looking for a box to put it in and when he returned a colleague had stamped on it! 

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On 11/04/2021 at 22:46, Compound2632 said:

Although held in temperature controlled facilities, the recommendation is 13.2 to 14 deg C. Most tropical livestock would survive this, torpid probably. 

 

I thought large spiders were infrequently reported with banana shipments? 

 

Paul

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1 hour ago, Fredo said:

Looking forward to the Vans, did and of them survive until the 60’s and if so does the model also fit for that period. Thanks Fred

 

Hi Fredo . It does say in the introductory post from Oxford that they survived well into the 1960s 

 

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On 29/01/2021 at 20:24, Miss Prism said:

Banana traffic on the GWR tended to be in block trains, primarily from Bristol. Fully-fitted stock, fast timings. Dock unloading times and transit times were tightly controlled as a controlled part of the fruit ripening window.

 

 

Ermm not quite.  Bananas were never chilled as they blacken below +6 degrees, which is why the vans were steam heated. Ditto delays to the transport, particularly in winter.

The fruit was first taken to special ripening rooms and depending on how green they were could spend up to 36 hours in the rooms before they were boxed and sent to the wholesale market traders.

My first job in Birmingham Wholesale Markets was working for the former ‘Banana King’ Rob Pryke, hence I  was fully indoctrinated in looking after the fruit.

The Banana Rooms were beneath Moor Street station and the wagons came down in a lift.  As to spiders in the stock, yes, I got a pal some casual work in the rooms in 1980 or so and on his first day found a vicious bird eating spider!  Snakes also occasionally turned up too.

Having frequently eaten perfectly ripe bananas still warm from the rooms, I can’t eat cold bananas!

Unfortunately today bananas don’t get ripened properly and green bananas may have been chilled or left out in the cold so they blacken before they ripen.

Tesco’s bananas are good but other supermarkets are a lottery.  Not all ‘progress’ is real progress.

Edited by Chuffed 1
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10 hours ago, Chuffed 1 said:

Ermm not quite.  Bananas were never chilled as they blacken below +6 degrees, which is why the vans were steam heated. Ditto delays to the transport, particularly in winter.

 

My understanding is that banana importation to Britain was revolutionised by Elders & Fyffes' introduction of refrigeration on board their banana boats, in 1902. The ripening process was then begun in the steam heated banana vans and continued as you describe, which is why specialised banana vans appear from all the companies serving Avonmouth and Manchester Docks from c. 1904/5. 

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

My understanding is that banana importation to Britain was revolutionised by Elders & Fyffes' introduction of refrigeration on board their banana boats, in 1902. The ripening process was then begun in the steam heated banana vans and continued as you describe, which is why specialised banana vans appear from all the companies serving Avonmouth and Manchester Docks from c. 1904/5. 

Not so much refrigerated (as in chilled), but temperature-controlled, at a low enough level to hold back ripening during the voyage, but not so cold as to damage the fruit.

 

It was their marketing USP but, at the time, their target audience would have got the gist without further explanation while the latter was not a term in common usage.

 

The practice delivered bananas to UK docks in a predictable and uniform condition, making it easy to provide the appropriate level of train heating to ensure reaching their final destinations at the desired level of ripeness. 

 

John

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not so much refrigerated (as in chilled), but temperature-controlled, at a low enough level to hold back ripening during the voyage, but not so cold as to damage the fruit.

 

Interesting. I haven't gone into this very deeply but all the online sources I've located use the word "refrigerated". Do you have a reference that gives a fuller description?

 

I'd been looking into the date of the start of "refrigerated" shipments re. the Midland's banana trains over the E&WJR / SMJR; imports were first via Avonmouth and, I think, only via Manchester Docks in 1905 or so - going by the date when the LNWR started building banana vans. The Midland's first batch of banana vans dates from 1905 as well, but 60 ordinary fitted vans* were given steam heating at an unknown date - maybe this was done in 1902 for the Avonmouth traffic.

 

*Ordinary, except that any sort of fitted van was a rarity in 1902.

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Banana trains !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Little tale here. Back in the late 60's (when I were a lad) British Railways had a "tip" at Ince Moss Junction, south of Wigan just across from Springs Branch, on the St Helens line. They dumped everything here, mainly spent ballast, bits of redundant signalling etc, and BANANAS, by the trainload. Bananas where imported into nearby Liverpool, and occasionally a shipment / trainload would go off - be over ripe, and was taken to be dumped at Ince Moss tip. The tip was called by many "The Banana Dump", and alongside were several "Flashes" ,colliery ponds that were full of gigantic Perch, Tench and of course Pike. We would go Pike fishing there often, though I was often rooting around looking for railway "artefacts" (along with the many rats - 4 legged ones not Class 25's !!!!!!!!!!. Other "folk" would go ratting with dogs, ferrets and a 12 bore shotgun or two !!!. Grand place it was (not).

 

My fishing mate had a brand new "Visionhire" (TV rentals engineer) works van, and very early one sunny summer Sunday  around 1970 off we went fishing / foraging. We parked the van & walked a way to the pond, about 5.00am. Well along comes a class 40 and train, we thought it was dumping stuff, but unbeknown to us it was on a track relaying job, and when we packed up, a new line had been placed alongside the van blocking the exit. My mate was panicking, railwaymen bent double laughing. Anyway after a hour they actually removed 2 rails and a few sleepers to let us out.

 

All gone now, except for the flashes, lots of trees etc planted. 

 

Brit15

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2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The tip was called by many "The Banana Dump", and alongside were several "Flashes" ,colliery ponds that were full of gigantic Perch, Tench and of course Pike.

 

Were the dumped bananas the cause of the size of the fish?

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Interesting. I haven't gone into this very deeply but all the online sources I've located use the word "refrigerated". Do you have a reference that gives a fuller description?

 

I'd been looking into the date of the start of "refrigerated" shipments re. the Midland's banana trains over the E&WJR / SMJR; imports were first via Avonmouth and, I think, only via Manchester Docks in 1905 or so - going by the date when the LNWR started building banana vans. The Midland's first batch of banana vans dates from 1905 as well, but 60 ordinary fitted vans* were given steam heating at an unknown date - maybe this was done in 1902 for the Avonmouth traffic.

 

*Ordinary, except that any sort of fitted van was a rarity in 1902.

My intended point was that the commonly accepted meaning of the word "refrigerated", as used in Elders Fyffes' publicity in 1902, would have been subtly different to how we think of it today.

 

As Chuffed 1 pointed out, bananas spoil if stored below +6 degrees C.

 

Nowadays we think of refrigeration involving chilling rather closer to frost point and the modern term "temperature controlled" is more appropriate where that is not required. Such a distinction was probably not drawn in 1902 , with "refrigeration" being a catch-all term for maintaining temperatures below ambient.

 

In short, we can interpret what they meant in 1902, and it means much the same today, but additional new expressions have developed in the meantime that enable us to draw finer distinctions. 

 

John

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5 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

My intended point was that the commonly accepted meaning of the word "refrigerated", as used in Elders Fyffes' publicity in 1902, would have been subtly different to how we think of it today.

 

As Chuffed 1 pointed out, bananas spoil if stored below +6 degrees C.

 

Nowadays we think of refrigeration involving chilling rather closer to frost point and the modern term "temperature controlled" is more appropriate where that is not required. Such a distinction was probably not drawn in 1902 , with "refrigeration" being a catch-all term for maintaining temperatures below ambient.

 

In short, we can interpret what they meant in 1902, and it means much the same today, but additional new expressions have developed in the meantime that enable us to draw finer distinctions. 

 

John

 

Thanks - makes sense. For the current meaning, Oxford Languages gives "the process of subjecting food or drink to cold in order to chill or preserve it" whereas the Wikipedia article on refrigeration preserves the wider meaning of cooling to below the ambient temperature.

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5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Were the dumped bananas the cause of the size of the fish?

 

Quite probably - The rats were big 'uns too !!

 

Brit15

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On 01/07/2021 at 12:14, APOLLO said:

The tip was called by many "The Banana Dump"

That would make for some interesting lineside scenery: “…I fashioned them out of air-drying clay and over a couple of nights me and the wife rolled out about 27,000 bananas” 

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2 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

I had it in my head that the vans should be vertical planked, is that not the case?

 

Not these ones, no.

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