Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[MikeParkin65]

Pleased to see the nicely profiled and refined look of the bogie wheels, a big advance on most current rtr steam locos. 

[Miss Prism]

On 22/04/2021 at 12:29, Miss Prism said:

Great to see a late Collett underframe on the tender, although I can't recall seeing a Manor with one of those (I've no doubt there were few occasions where those tenders were used)

 

Silly me, I should have checked. I found pics of 7801, 7806, 7807, 7812, 7814, 7823 and 7827 with that kind of underframe. Here's 7801 (probably in mid-1957):

 

 

 

Note the lined fender!

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Miss Prism
added extra tenders with wide hornguides seen running with Manors

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi everyone,

 

Many thanks for the constructive comments about the Manor sample, they are very welcome. To address some of the queries that have been brought up:

 

1/ Cab handrail support: It is there on the EP, but it should be more prominent. This has been highlighted to the factory and it will be improved.
2/ Boiler band fastener: This is in a tricky position for moulding but we will look into adding our best representation of it
3/ ATC conduit: More information please, what "looks odd" about it at the mounting brackets?
4/ Smokebox darts: Yes, they are too long. The correct dimensions were provided but they were misinterpreted. These will be corrected
5/ Tender front handrail: In unpainted form they are a little thin. Once painted they will look thicker - and if they don't look right we will use a different diameter of wire
6/ We will look into improving the way that the window is designed
7/ The tender frame with "wide" hornplates is not as common as the version with "narrow" hornplates but the Manors did run with them. We have a very nice reference photo of 7812 Erlestoke Manor in 1965 with this style of frame and, of course, the tender that Cookham is currently mated to (and has been since the mid 1970s) has this same design so we had to do it. We have made the alternative version for the first run and also designed the "narrow" style with strengthened spring hangers that will appear on future runs. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran (and Gareth!) 

[Miss Prism]

7806, date unknown, but still with its wartime plated cabside window, with a wide hornplate underframe tender:

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Miss Prism
image re-instated

[Miss Prism]

7804 new at Swindon in 1938, the tender (a vanilla Churchward 3500g) having strengthening plates on the hornguides:

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Miss Prism
image reinstated

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

Many thanks for the constructive comments about the Manor sample, they are very welcome. To address some of the queries that have been brought up:

 

1/ Cab handrail support: It is there on the EP, but it should be more prominent. This has been highlighted to the factory and it will be improved.
2/ Boiler band fastener: This is in a tricky position for moulding but we will look into adding our best representation of it
3/ ATC conduit: More information please, what "looks odd" about it at the mounting brackets?
4/ Smokebox darts: Yes, they are too long. The correct dimensions were provided but they were misinterpreted. These will be corrected
5/ Tender front handrail: In unpainted form they are a little thin. Once painted they will look thicker - and if they don't look right we will use a different diameter of wire
6/ We will look into improving the way that the window is designed
7/ The tender frame with "wide" hornplates is not as common as the version with "narrow" hornplates but the Manors did run with them. We have a very nice reference photo of 7812 Erlestoke Manor in 1965 with this style of frame and, of course, the tender that Cookham is currently mated to (and has been since the mid 1970s) has this same design so we had to do it. We have made the alternative version for the first run and also designed the "narrow" style with strengthened spring hangers that will appear on future runs. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran (and Gareth!) 

Hi Fran and Gareth.

 

It could be an optical illusion but the image of the right hand side gives the impression that the conduit has  a joggle at each clipping point. The real fixings are ‘P’ clips riveted to the outside of the valence.

 

Mark

[G-BOAF]

23 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @G-BOAF,

 

As stated in the blog, we are sorting the rivets. Appreciate the kind words!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Sorry I admit (on this occasion) to not having read the blog post... oops!) Glad to hear this will be sorted.

As with all your other models, the manor has a 'the longer you stare the more you see' factor to it!

 

Will you be tooling up a Collett 4000gal tender for future manor releases?

[Bulwell Hall]

15 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

Many thanks for the constructive comments about the Manor sample, they are very welcome. To address some of the queries that have been brought up:

 

1/ Cab handrail support: It is there on the EP, but it should be more prominent. This has been highlighted to the factory and it will be improved.
2/ Boiler band fastener: This is in a tricky position for moulding but we will look into adding our best representation of it
3/ ATC conduit: More information please, what "looks odd" about it at the mounting brackets?
4/ Smokebox darts: Yes, they are too long. The correct dimensions were provided but they were misinterpreted. These will be corrected
5/ Tender front handrail: In unpainted form they are a little thin. Once painted they will look thicker - and if they don't look right we will use a different diameter of wire
6/ We will look into improving the way that the window is designed
7/ The tender frame with "wide" hornplates is not as common as the version with "narrow" hornplates but the Manors did run with them. We have a very nice reference photo of 7812 Erlestoke Manor in 1965 with this style of frame and, of course, the tender that Cookham is currently mated to (and has been since the mid 1970s) has this same design so we had to do it. We have made the alternative version for the first run and also designed the "narrow" style with strengthened spring hangers that will appear on future runs. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran (and Gareth!) 

 

I am very impressed indeed and have placed my order for 7818 Granville Manor!  But could you take a look at the boiler handrail on the engine - especially on the front of the smokebox as it doesn't quite convince?

 

Fingers - and everything else - crossed that it can be converted to EM gauge!

 

Gerry

[Rockalaucher101]

12 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Sorry I admit (on this occasion) to not having read the blog post... oops!) Glad to hear this will be sorted.

As with all your other models, the manor has a 'the longer you stare the more you see' factor to it!

 

Will you be tooling up a Collett 4000gal tender for future manor releases?

As someone who has pestered enough about 7802 in preservation being done, I would also like to know

[Accurascale Fran]

24 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Sorry I admit (on this occasion) to not having read the blog post... oops!) Glad to hear this will be sorted.

As with all your other models, the manor has a 'the longer you stare the more you see' factor to it!

 

Will you be tooling up a Collett 4000gal tender for future manor releases?

 

Hi @G-BOAF,

 

No problem! We do not have plans to do the Collett 4000gal tender for this run, but it may well happen for future releases. 

 

18 minutes ago, Bulwell Hall said:

 

I am very impressed indeed and have placed my order for 7818 Granville Manor!  But could you take a look at the boiler handrail on the engine - especially on the front of the smokebox as it doesn't quite convince?

 

Fingers - and everything else - crossed that it can be converted to EM gauge!

 

Gerry

 

Hi @Bulwell Hall,

 

Many thanks for the order. The boiler handrail is indeed getting improved and does not fit very well on this first pre-production model.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[G-BOAF]

 

43 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @G-BOAF,

 

No problem! We do not have plans to do the Collett 4000gal tender for this run, but it may well happen for future releases. 

 

 

Hi @Bulwell Hall,

 

Many thanks for the order. The boiler handrail is indeed getting improved and does not fit very well on this first pre-production model.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

Thanks Fran

I will keep an eye out. I would second 7802 in its 2000s mainline form (after my similar lobbying for D9000 in in its 1990s/2000s mainline green, you may be seeing a trend in my messages here!).

 

If you do end up doing the 4000g tender, with its revised chassis, I guess it might also be worth considering the Collett 3500g tender as running today with 7820. I believe the in-service collett 3500g tenders had the same underframes as the 4000g version (though someone more knowlegable will correct me)

 

I don't know what it is, but for me the more modern lines of the Collett tender suits the manors better and reflects their late 1930s origin.

 

In the mean time I'm ordering 7808, at least it has a Collett wide horn frame which is a step towards modernity! And someone once said all GWR engines look the same. Even the tenders are a minefield!

 

One more thing - a cruel zoom in on the boiler casting reveals a discontinuity on the smokebox front edge betwee the sides and top of the boiler tool. I just wanted to highlight this for correction in case it wasn't on your radar, either as a tooling error or the set up of the tool.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by G-BOAF

[1466]

1 hour ago, Bulwell Hall said:

 

I am very impressed indeed and have placed my order for 7818 Granville Manor!  But could you take a look at the boiler handrail on the engine - especially on the front of the smokebox as it doesn't quite convince?

 

Fingers - and everything else - crossed that it can be converted to EM gauge!

 

Gerry

I’ll be following with great interest your efforts to convert your Manor to EM gauge . I do hope you’ll keep us informed on how it goes .

Ken 

[Guest]

Looks superb, I do wonder if Accura get fed up with peeps asking for specific loco No's/variations to suit there needs!

[G-BOAF]

2 hours ago, confused said:

Looks superb, I do wonder if Accura get fed up with peeps asking for specific loco No's/variations to suit there needs!

Not sure I agree with this. Its a credit to Accurascale and a natural result of their rediculous attention to detail :-p

 

What WOULD be useful is a table for each model of the variations and the potential renumbering options, given how easy GWR locos are to renumber (esp the BR versions where you just need plates and glue).

 

Would Accurascale want to do this as a way to enhance sales of this initial batch? Would such a tool undermine sales of future batches of models? Do they have the resources to research this....

 

Maybe someone on RMWeb could cobble this together.

 

Variations are (correct me if I'm wrong)

Original/modified chimney

Tender body flush or riveted

Tender frames narrow, wide, different spring hangers

Buffer shanks - tapered or parallel

Tender OHL plate

Wheels - webbed or non-webbed

 

Now you just need to produce a matrix of each loco in each livery with each variation, and see which intersect with the models being produced....

 

78xx Shirtbutton, 78xx GWR, 78xx GCrestW, 78xx Plain black, 78xx lined black, 78xx lined green early, 78xx lined green late

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Guest]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Not sure I agree with this. Its a credit to Accurascale and a natural result of their rediculous attention to detail :....

Point taken maybe I should have been clearer, not just for the Manors  but also on the 37 thread.  Some peeps ask if loco No. 12345 from 1964 when it was modified with the oogemeflick and buckhorn widget gizmo to improve performance for example, will be made, but only lasted that year and only that loco had the modification and then went back to standard, if you see what I mean. There was one slightly exasperated reply from Accura on either Deltic or 37 thread but quite away back.

 

Now I'm sounding confused. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Guest
spelling, to make clearer

[Northmoor MPD]

Absolutely superb looking model!

 

...I must not order one...

...I’m tempted to order one....

...I’m ordering one! 

 

I think it will have to be a DCC sound one too! The wife’s going to kill me! 

[McC]

1 hour ago, G-BOAF said:

What WOULD be useful is a table for each model of the variations and the potential renumbering options, given how easy GWR locos are to renumber (esp the BR versions where you just need plates and glue).

 

 

Each model spec includes the variations - https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/locomotives/products/7819-hinton-manor-gwr-7800 as an example, and a matrix is something we obviously have in hand for the models being produced - we'll look into if it's something that can be readily shared.

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Not sure I agree with this. Its a credit to Accurascale and a natural result of their rediculous attention to detail :-p

 

What WOULD be useful is a table for each model of the variations and the potential renumbering options, given how easy GWR locos are to renumber (esp the BR versions where you just need plates and glue).

 

Would Accurascale want to do this as a way to enhance sales of this initial batch? Would such a tool undermine sales of future batches of models? Do they have the resources to research this....

 

Maybe someone on RMWeb could cobble this together.

 

Variations are (correct me if I'm wrong)

Original/modified chimney

Tender body flush or riveted

Tender frames narrow, wide, different spring hangers

Buffer shanks - tapered or parallel

Tender OHL plate

Wheels - webbed or non-webbed

 

Now you just need to produce a matrix of each loco in each livery with each variation, and see which intersect with the models being produced....

 

78xx Shirtbutton, 78xx GWR, 78xx GCrestW, 78xx Plain black, 78xx lined black, 78xx lined green early, 78xx lined green late

 

As McC has already replied there is effectively matrix already for the models so far listed by Accurascale and each of them is based on prototype photos to ensure that the livery matches the engine/tender combination although obviously tenders were swapped around and not just at works visits.   While the Manors were remarkably consistent in detail variation for GWR locos (note that I said 'for GWR locos') there were obviously variations.  However variations were usually very date specific and to produce a full matrix would need access to dozens of accurately dated photos of each engine (and tender attached to it at that specific date) over almost the entire life time of each engine.

 

There has clearly been an enormous amount of research already to get to the range of variants Accurascale is offering so far and that would no doubt continue for any future variants they offer but to build a matrix for the entire class - even at a specific date - would not only mean a lot of work but also access to every published source that exists, an assumption that the information in each source is accurate (and some of it definitely isn't absolutely accurate) and an assumption that all published photos are accurately dated (which can br very difficult to check).   I think that if anyone wants to renumber any of the models offered by Accurascale the ideal approach is for them to do their own research as they know exactly what period and location they are looking for.

 

 

[TrevorP1]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

  I think that if anyone wants to renumber any of the models offered by Accurascale the ideal approach is for them to do their own research as they know exactly what period and location they are looking for.

 

 

In my book that's all part - (and a very satisfying part) - of the hobby. There is so much on the web now, it doesn't have to cost a fortune and then you have many of your sources and leads ready for the next time.

 

[w124bob]

The problem of doing research for renumbering is you end up with a choice, which usually ends badly for my wallet! 

[Black 5 Bear]

Fran,

Are we any nearer to seeing some livery samples for the Manor as was mooted a while back?

Additionally, are we realistically going to see the finished product on retailers shelves this year?

Many thanks in anticipation.

[McC]

54 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Fran,

Are we any nearer to seeing some livery samples for the Manor as was mooted a while back?

Additionally, are we realistically going to see the finished product on retailers shelves this year?

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Morning! We have just this morning received tooling final finished samples, and tweaks / polished from the last run, which puts final decorated samples about 4-5 weeks from now. At that point, we'll provide a comprehensive update and timeline. HTH!

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, McC said:

HTH!

 

Ironically I had to google this. 

[Hilux5972]

8 hours ago, McC said:

 

Morning! We have just this morning received tooling final finished samples, and tweaks / polished from the last run, which puts final decorated samples about 4-5 weeks from now. At that point, we'll provide a comprehensive update and timeline. HTH!

Thanks for the update McC. Are we to be allowed a peek at these tooling samples? 

[Paul.Uni]