Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[MikeParkin65]

50 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I long ago lost count of the number of Western engines I saw not only in traffic but in works and ex-wrks and i can't recall ever seeing one with painted outside crossheads - they were bare metal like the rest of the outside motion but they dirtoed ina different way from the rewst of the outside motion.  There might possibly have been instances where the vacuum pump drive bracket was painted black but i can't recall ever seeing on th like that.

 

As ever a photo is worth umpteen thousand words so here are two examples of my own photos from 1963 and if either of those crossheads is painted black I should really have used another camera or different film.  And to show that I'm not biased the first one is a 'Grange' and the second one is 7808 - apart from oil  splashes and a difference in the amount of dirt the crosshead is bare metal, not painted black.  Even more obvious on spme colour photos from the steam age.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just had a look at the chapter ‘Ex works Swindon’ in the Strathwood ‘Western Steam Days Remembered’  - the cross heads of all of the ex GWR locos are definitely paired black. 

[7007GreatWestern]

The crosshead on the Fireman's side was painted black. On the Driver's side it was a bit more complicated. The part that rubbed against the slidebars, called the Slipper Block, was painted black. On GWR 2-cylinder locos a linkage was bolted outside the slipper block that worked the crosshead-driven vacuum pump. This was left unpainted. So, on a four cylinder engine like a Castle you would just see a plain black Slipper Block. On 2-cylinder locos like Manors the painted Slipper Block was partly obscured by the vacuum pump arm where the arm was mounted externally.....but it was still painted black. To confuse things further, some locos had the vac. pump arm mounted internally (eg 43xx, 61xx)......

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p254437496/e9de0550b

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p254437496/eeb90f2c0

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p200288452/e8e4fec

 

https://zenfolio.page.link/d2CRj

Edited January 15, 2022 by 7007GreatWestern
Corrected typo

[Miss Prism]

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

https://zenfolio.page.link/d2CRj

 

The vacuum pump arm on that one looks to be black, it seems the treatment of the arm (painted/unpainted) varied.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Miss Prism
incorrect reference

[Ben7820]

On 14/01/2022 at 11:31, Miss Prism said:

Late crest, in 1959 - I think the shedplate might be 85A (Worcester) or 85B (Gloucester)

 

 

 

Absolutely blinding work on this Accurascale - and thanks for keeping us up to date @Accurascale Fran - at least 2 planned on their way to me.

 

Just borrowing the picture from Miss Prism above, the small pipe from the main steam pipe, up the side of the smoke box (to the superheater?) appears to have much more pronounced corners in its application, compared to the current samples which are more 'wavy' - is this something on the list? Or did the shape/curves of the pipe vary between locomotive?

 

 

[7007GreatWestern]

In case anyone is interested, this is the Crosshead arrangement on the driver's side of a typical GWR 2 cylinder 4-6-0. This photo clearly shows that the Slipper Block and Vacuum Pump Arm are separate items, bolted together. The arm has been disconnected from the Vac. Pump Spindle since the loco is out of traffic.

 

This close-up view is of 4930 Hagley Hall in preserved condition was taken in 2008 at the Severn Valley Railway. The SVR elected to paint both the Slipper Block and Vac. Arm black. This may or may not have been true in the GWR era, but photos of ex-works locos in the late 50s and 60s suggest to me that the vac. arm was usually unpainted by BR(W).

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi everyone,

 

I hope you're not getting too bored of Manor content from us at this stage, but testing continues so we thought we'd drop a wee video to show the smooth running characteristics and the firebox flicker (which we may be tweaking) in the meantime

 

 

Watch out for further previews in the coming weeks, including the bespoke DCC sound project and of course, the all important haulage capabilities.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran  

[Eddie the dog]

Hi Fran,

Very nice !

Could I ask a couple of questions please ?

Is this demo still of the 3 pole motor... and now that the Manor is nearing completion, do you

plan to produce era specific rolling stock ?

Cheers.

[Accurascale Fran]

9 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

Hi Fran,

Very nice !

Could I ask a couple of questions please ?

Is this demo still of the 3 pole motor... and now that the Manor is nearing completion, do you

plan to produce era specific rolling stock ?

Cheers.

 

Hi Eddie,

 

Yes, this is the 3 pole motor with flywheel. As you can see (and will see in future videos) it is silky smooth. 

 

We are indeed, you may have missed our recent Siphon G announcement: https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/siphon-g

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

I hope you're not getting too bored of Manor content from us at this stage, but testing continues so we thought we'd drop a wee video to show the smooth running characteristics and the firebox flicker (which we may be tweaking) in the meantime

 

 

Watch out for further previews in the coming weeks, including the bespoke DCC sound project and of course, the all important haulage capabilities.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran  

That looks superb,can feel the heat,will the detail pack contain a 00 shovel with bacon and egg on it.........well done.thank you.

[The Stationmaster]

On 15/01/2022 at 15:58, Ben7820 said:

 

Absolutely blinding work on this Accurascale - and thanks for keeping us up to date @Accurascale Fran - at least 2 planned on their way to me.

 

Just borrowing the picture from Miss Prism above, the small pipe from the main steam pipe, up the side of the smoke box (to the superheater?) appears to have much more pronounced corners in its application, compared to the current samples which are more 'wavy' - is this something on the list? Or did the shape/curves of the pipe vary between locomotive?

 

 

The route taken by the oil pipe varied  - seemingly depending on exactly how a particular Coppersmith tackle the job - and as the years passed less care seems to have been taking regarding its routes in some works. (or possibly when repairs took place at running sheds)

[Accurascale Fran]

On 15/01/2022 at 15:58, Ben7820 said:

 

Absolutely blinding work on this Accurascale - and thanks for keeping us up to date @Accurascale Fran - at least 2 planned on their way to me.

 

Just borrowing the picture from Miss Prism above, the small pipe from the main steam pipe, up the side of the smoke box (to the superheater?) appears to have much more pronounced corners in its application, compared to the current samples which are more 'wavy' - is this something on the list? Or did the shape/curves of the pipe vary between locomotive?

 

 

 

Hi @Ben7820,

 

Many thanks for your kind words!

 

The pipe on the side of the smokebox varied from locomotive to locomotive and on the same locomotive at different times in its career. Ours is based on our 3D scan of 7808 Cookham Manor.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[scots region]

10 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

That looks superb,can feel the heat,will the detail pack contain a 00 shovel with bacon and egg on it.........well done.thank you.

 

Oh not that old chestnut, though perhaps period appropriate tea flasks would be nice. There is something very cat like about GWR 4-6-0s.  

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, scots region said:

 

There is something very cat like about GWR 4-6-0s.  

 

I've yet to see one lie on its back for you to tickle its tummy!

[Calidore]

On 14/01/2022 at 11:01, Accurascale Fran said:

Keeping Up Our Good Manors!

 

 

The Manors really have some wonderful livery variations, and today's reveal is in fully lined BR green with early BR crest as 7810 'Draycott Manor'.

 

Once again there are areas for improvement which will be implemented in the production models, but it's a flavour of things to come.

 

 

We are due further samples of the Manors in the coming weeks, including the beautiful BR Lined Black livery, so keep an eye out for that, as well as video of them in action, including the DCC sound!

 

In the meantime, secure your pre-order for your Accurascale Manor via your local stockist, or online via our website right here: https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/gwr-7800-manor-class 

 

They're shifting fast!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Hi folks

 

Very much enjoying the photos and running videos of late, thanks for posting them.

 

There are several photos of 7810 making forays onto SR metals at Southampton Central / Terminus, so one of these will be jumping into my shopping basket in due course. But a small thing -- the only photos I've seen of 7810 with early crest have the upper part of the tender lined as well. For example...

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=167398&search=7810

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collett-Manor-Class-78007829/Manor-Class-Pre-1968/78007811-Built-1938/i-JnJwQWh/A

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collett-Manor-Class-78007829/Manor-Class-Pre-1968/78007811-Built-1938/i-nMrrvgH/A

 

I'm far from an expert on these GW things and it's no kind of deal-breaker at all, but just curious if there's evidence for the lining state shown on the sample? (With the previous discussion of tender swaps acknowledged, I realise it's very possible it had both.)

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Adam

Edited January 18, 2022 by Calidore

[Miss Prism]

Adam - there were at least two Churchward early crest 3500g tenders with lined fenders, originally used with Royal Train Moguls 6372 and 6385 in May 1956 . It's not surprising that one of them found itself behind 7810 sometime in 1957.

 

[Covkid]

On 17/01/2022 at 12:02, Eddie the dog said:

Hi Fran,

Very nice !

Could I ask a couple of questions please ?

Is this demo still of the 3 pole motor... and now that the Manor is nearing completion, do you

plan to produce era specific rolling stock ?

Cheers.

 

The 21T mineral, Coil A and 24.5T hopper can take the Manor back to the BR 1950s era, and the newly announced Siphon G further still.  So if you are a BR era modeller like wot I am then things are great.  If you are a GWR modeller however, you need to badger Accurascale a little more. 

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

…...  If you are a GWR modeller however, you need to badger Accurascale a little more. 

It’s also a crowded market….

 

Based on our expectations of the Manor and the standards Accurascale are setting… should we badger Accurascale @Accurascale Fran and @McC for some pre WW2 GWR Pannier tanks (no top feed)… or some GWR Toplights… such a hard decision….

 

Clearly both options would be good, the first is a much requested loco, but falls on deaf ears in other camps…. Toplights are also much requested in the polls, but are not straightforward as they changed so much over the years.

 

Either option would be good….

[Accurascale Fran]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

It’s also a crowded market….

 

Based on our expectations of the Manor and the standards Accurascale are setting… should we badger Accurascale @Accurascale Fran and @McC for some pre WW2 GWR Pannier tanks (no top feed)… or some GWR Toplights… such a hard decision….

 

Clearly both options would be good, the first is a much requested loco, but falls on deaf ears in other camps…. Toplights are also much requested in the polls, but are not straightforward as they changed so much over the years.

 

Either option would be good….

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[longchap]

33 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

I also like to pay attention to what people don't say, so have some hope in this manufacturer looking favourably at a Pannier release, less top feed.

 

Best,

 

Bill

[Harlequin]

37 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

This is sad news but on the plus side the value of my kit stash has just shot up again...

 

Seriously though, the various kits that have been made don't cover all the possible variants and yet they are very popular and command high prices on the auction sites. So that suggests that there would be a market for a limited number of types/variations.

 

[Keegs]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

It’s also a crowded market….

 

Based on our expectations of the Manor and the standards Accurascale are setting… should we badger Accurascale @Accurascale Fran and @McC for some pre WW2 GWR Pannier tanks (no top feed)… or some GWR Toplights… such a hard decision….

 

Clearly both options would be good, the first is a much requested loco, but falls on deaf ears in other camps…. Toplights are also much requested in the polls, but are not straightforward as they changed so much over the years.

 

Either option would be good….

I was thinking exactly the same thing, I’m modelling pre-roundel 1930s and I was pretty disappointed with the last 2 years Hornby announcements! I’ve got a Hornby King(splendid, if a little large) and after months of scouting ebay I managed to get my hands on a used Bachmann Pannier which of course has inaccuracies such as the topfeed etc. I’ve had a Dapol sound prairie on order for what seems like a decade and have heard nothing from them.(The non-sound ones arrived just before Christmas) I sure picked the wrong time to start building up my fleet! I’m doing a early 50s layout aswell and have pre-ordered one of these splendid Accurascale Sound Manor’s as I couldn’t resist!

[Ian Hargrave]

45 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

And that’s a clear and straightforward reply for which many thanks.It echoes views expressed by several knowledgeable members of this forum over the last few years. The Toplights are a minefield.But as you have proven recently with the Syphon,there are many other rolling stock options to consider 
 

 

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Thanks for the reply and your honesty Fran, it’s very much appreciated. The way you are approaching the business is refreshing and on that basis, I amongst others are pleased to support your projects.

 

The Toplights would be a nightmare to get right….

 

Thanks again for your reply.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

We'll be honest, we did look into toplights, but the sheer variation and changes make them an absolute nightmare cost wise to produce. Maybe one day, or someone else could take it on, but right now it's not one for us I'm afraid. 

 

Sorry to burst some bubbles!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Very sensible decision from a manufacturing viewpoint although not so nice for those who want r-t-r models of Toplights.   Accurascale is not the first to make that decision - for the same reason as the other manufacturer- and a poll conducted on RMweb showed a massive disparity in terms of exactly what people wanted among those who voted for 'a Toplight'

 

However panniers area different story and even the 57XX, with suitable tooling to allow for variation over their lifetime is one that would definitely benefit from 'the Accurascale treatment'   (and maybe even the 8750 as well if the tooling could be conveniently arranged to allow that version?).

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Stationmaster