Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[7007GreatWestern]

14 hours ago, Calidore said:

 

Hi folks

 

Very much enjoying the photos and running videos of late, thanks for posting them.

 

There are several photos of 7810 making forays onto SR metals at Southampton Central / Terminus, so one of these will be jumping into my shopping basket in due course. But a small thing -- the only photos I've seen of 7810 with early crest have the upper part of the tender lined as well. For example...

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=167398&search=7810

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collett-Manor-Class-78007829/Manor-Class-Pre-1968/78007811-Built-1938/i-JnJwQWh/A

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collett-Manor-Class-78007829/Manor-Class-Pre-1968/78007811-Built-1938/i-nMrrvgH/A

 

I'm far from an expert on these GW things and it's no kind of deal-breaker at all, but just curious if there's evidence for the lining state shown on the sample? (With the previous discussion of tender swaps acknowledged, I realise it's very possible it had both.)

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Adam

Hi Adam,

I think you may have spotted an error. The Accurascale model of 'Draycott Manor' does not have the lining on the top fender as shown in the three photos of the prototype. I've just checked Laurence Waters' "Great Western Manor Class". There is an excellent Norman Preedy photo of the loco dated 1956 again showing the fender as lined out. The combination of lined green livery with the 'Cycling Lion' crest was actually rare (except for the ‘Kings’, ‘Castles’ and some ‘Stars’)  because the introduction of lined green in around 1956 more-or-less coincided with the replacement of the 'Cycling Lion' with the 'Ferret and Dartboard' crest.

 

I know of three Manors that ran in lined green with the 'Cycling Lion': 7810 Draycott Manor, 7818 Granville Manor and 7828 Odney Manor. All the photos of 'Draycott' and 'Granville' I am aware of show the top fender lined out. Odney Manor was attached to one of the 'Intermediate' tenders at that time, a design not depicted by Accurascale's tooling or indeed any other manufacturers.

Edited January 19, 2022 by 7007GreatWestern
4-cylinder locos excepted

[Accurascale Fran]

1 hour ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

Hi Adam,

I think you may have spotted an error. The Accurascale model of 'Draycott Manor' does not have the lining on the top fender as shown in the three photos of the prototype. I've just checked Laurence Waters' "Great Western Manor Class". There is an excellent Norman Preedy photo of the loco dated 1956 again showing the fender as lined out. The combination of lined green livery with the 'Cycling Lion' crest was actually rare (except for the ‘Kings’, ‘Castles’ and some ‘Stars’)  because the introduction of lined green in around 1956 more-or-less coincided with the replacement of the 'Cycling Lion' with the 'Ferret and Dartboard' crest.

 

I know of three Manors that ran in lined green with the 'Cycling Lion': 7810 Draycott Manor, 7818 Granville Manor and 7828 Odney Manor. All the photos of 'Draycott' and 'Granville' I am aware of show the top fender lined out. Odney Manor was attached to one of the 'Intermediate' tenders at that time, a design not depicted by Accurascale's tooling or indeed any other manufacturers.

 

Hi everyone,

 

I thought I had confirmed that here, but alas it was on Facebook. This has been duly noted and will be corrected. 

 

This is why decorated samples are vital and shows their importance. It allows for excellent constructive and knowledgeable feedback as per above.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran  

[gwrrob]

3 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

This is why decorated samples are vital and shows their importance. It allows for excellent constructive and knowledgeable feedback as per above.  

 

Other manufacturers could learn a thing or two with regard to relationships on RMweb . 

Edited January 19, 2022 by gwrrob
grammar

[7007GreatWestern]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi everyone,

 

I thought I had confirmed that here, but alas it was on Facebook. This has been duly noted and will be corrected. 

 

This is why decorated samples are vital and shows their importance. It allows for excellent constructive and knowledgeable feedback as per above.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran  

I agree entirely with Rob's observation. I am really impressed with both the model that Accurascale have produced and their attitude as a business to constructive, respectful feedback. Glib marketing phrases like 'raising the bar' are so often thrown around by 'new-entrant' manufacturers. In the case of Accurascale that actually seems to be justified, based on what I have seen from them so far! Outstanding!! Why was this so hard for their competitors?

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Thanks for the reply and your honesty Fran, it’s very much appreciated. The way you are approaching the business is refreshing and on that basis, I amongst others are pleased to support your projects.

 

The Toplights would be a nightmare to get right….

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

Echo that Neal. A very useful response from Fran which tells us a lot more about it. 

Thanks for your response Fran

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

The big difference they are driven by an interest in modelling and dont sell themselves as experts.To many experts in modern life but in marketing and sales driven,We all need to make a living but too many driven by greed nothing else.There honest common sence approach here and in anything they do is paying dividends.The big players think there name will be the selling point.

[Devonauto]

My apologises Fran if this has been raised in earlier post which I missed.

The recent discussion on coupling brought to my mind the easy or otherwise of fitting Alex Jackson's  and hence  then to the easy or otherwise of conversion to P4. With some recent offering by others this has proven near if not completely impossible. In one case I had intended removing an near excellent body to replace a 40 year old white metal one, this has been impossible.

John

[Accurascale Fran]

8 minutes ago, Devonauto said:

My apologises Fran if this has been raised in earlier post which I missed.

The recent discussion on coupling brought to my mind the easy or otherwise of fitting Alex Jackson's  and hence  then to the easy or otherwise of conversion to P4. With some recent offering by others this has proven near if not completely impossible. In one case I had intended removing an near excellent body to replace a 40 year old white metal one, this has been impossible.

John

 

Hi John,

 

No problem at all. We do not recommend these locomotives as an easy conversion to P4. It might be achievable with adjustment, but I dont know how little or much of that is achievable or required. Sorry!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[1466]

3 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi John,

 

No problem at all. We do not recommend these locomotives as an easy conversion to P4. It might be achievable with adjustment, but I dont know how little or much of that is achievable or required. Sorry!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Fran 

optimistically reading between the lines ( and not expecting a recommendation) is there a possibility of conversion to EM gauge ? I’m thinking you have allowed for clearance under the splashers etc .

Thanks . Ken 

 

 

 

Thanks 

[Amaziii]

Just out of curiosity, would Accurascale ever consider making OO gauge steam engines with working inside pistons? Dapol have made their RTR O gauge 57xx with inside motion, so it gives me a little hope that maybe it could be in a smaller scale.

 

Cheers! c:

[Accurascale Fran]

On 21/01/2022 at 21:02, 1466 said:

Fran 

optimistically reading between the lines ( and not expecting a recommendation) is there a possibility of conversion to EM gauge ? I’m thinking you have allowed for clearance under the splashers etc .

Thanks . Ken 

 

 

 

Thanks 

 

Hi @1466,

 

Apologies, but we cannot say that these are EM gauge friendly either. It is a real challenge with steam locomotives of this type, but perhaps some 3rd party ingenuity will be able to make it possible. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Amaziii said:

Just out of curiosity, would Accurascale ever consider making OO gauge steam engines with working inside pistons? Dapol have made their RTR O gauge 57xx with inside motion, so it gives me a little hope that maybe it could be in a smaller scale.

 

Cheers! c:

 

Hi @Amaziii,

 

We would always consider it but it is certainly a big challenge! Perhaps one day it can be done.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Pteremy]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Apologies, but we cannot say that these are EM gauge friendly either. It is a real challenge with steam locomotives of this type, but perhaps some 3rd party ingenuity will be able to make it possible. 

 

 

Fran - I have 'skin in the game' - as I have 2 on pre order. So a slightly different way of approaching the EM/P4 issue - is it feasible to contemplate, in effect, versions of your chassis being built to different tolerances, rather than the more traditional total etched chassis replacement or replacement 'drop in' wheel sets? In effect a 'plug and play' replacement? Not suggesting that would be for you to do, but might be something you could help facilitate? Or do the design compromises you have to make for 00 make even that difficult?

[Miss Prism]

4 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

is it feasible to contemplate, in effect, versions of your chassis being built to different tolerances,

 

No.

 

Or yes, if you have 100k upfront to spare.

[john dew]

Hi Fran

 

Firstly thank you for the prompt and helpful way you have replied to each and every query.

 

I intend to rename the Anthony Manor I have on pre-order to 7817 Garsington Manor- a Croes Newyd loco…..probably with Fox plates.
 

Do you (or Miss Prism @Miss Prism) know of any glaring reason why this would be a bad idea?
 

Best wishes

[gwrrob]

38 minutes ago, john dew said:

I intend to rename the Anthony Manor I have on pre-order to 7817 Garsington Manor- a Croes Newyd loco…..probably with Fox plates.
 

 

I can't help you with the minor detail differences if indeed there are any bar the tender type @john dew but that's an excellent choice for your Chester work. 7817 was long lived at Croes Newyd.

[Accurascale Fran]

1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

 

Fran - I have 'skin in the game' - as I have 2 on pre order. So a slightly different way of approaching the EM/P4 issue - is it feasible to contemplate, in effect, versions of your chassis being built to different tolerances, rather than the more traditional total etched chassis replacement or replacement 'drop in' wheel sets? In effect a 'plug and play' replacement? Not suggesting that would be for you to do, but might be something you could help facilitate? Or do the design compromises you have to make for 00 make even that difficult?

 

Hi @Pteremy,

 

I'm afraid it is not. The market is just so small for such demands and the tooling cost would be enormous. Diesel and electric locomotives are a much easier proposition in this regards with the drop in wheelset, lack of any motion and splashers etc to worry about. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Miss Prism]

56 minutes ago, john dew said:

I intend to rename the Anthony Manor I have on pre-order to 7817 Garsington Manor- a Croes Newyd loco…..probably with Fox plates.

 

As far as I know, Accurascale's Anthony Manor will be GWR fat chimney, taper buffers (??), flush-riveted tender.

 

Am I right in thinking that 7817 did not become a Croes Newydd until after it had received its blastpipe (= narrow chimney) mods? Probably with Collett parallel buffers as well by that stage.

 

 

[john dew]

3 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

As far as I know, Accurascale's Anthony Manor will be GWR fat chimney, taper buffers (??), flush-riveted tender.

 

Am I right in thinking that 7817 did not become a Croes Newydd until after it had received its blastpipe (= narrow chimney) mods? Probably with Collett parallel buffers as well by that stage.

 

 

Thanks Miss P

 

Great Western.org is my bible in these matters. It states 7817 was built January 1939 and the first shed allocation was

Newport Croes Newyd.

 

Perhaps  a safer option would be to change my order to 2 Hinton Manor 7818 and change one to 7817?
 

Anthony Manor appealed because I liked the idea of a shirt button

[BR Blue]

1 hour ago, john dew said:

I intend to rename the Anthony Manor I have on pre-order to 7817 Garsington Manor- a Croes Newyd loco…..probably with Fox plates.

That's nothing. I intend to rename my Manor King George V. I suspect some people might have a problem with that.

[1466]

3 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @1466,

 

Apologies, but we cannot say that these are EM gauge friendly either. It is a real challenge with steam locomotives of this type, but perhaps some 3rd party ingenuity will be able to make it possible. 

 

 

 

Hi @Amaziii,

 

We would always consider it but it is certainly a big challenge! Perhaps one day it can be done.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Thanks Fran .

I await delivery of my 2 and will explore further . I really appreciate the time and effort you put into researching and your courtesy in replying to ( daft) enquiries . 
Ken 

[Miss Prism]

21 minutes ago, john dew said:

Great Western.org is my bible in these matters. It states 7817 was built January 1939 and the first shed allocation was

Newport Croes Newyd.

 

Ok, I am corrected!

 

21 minutes ago, john dew said:

Perhaps  a safer option would be to change my order to 2 Hinton Manor 7818 and change one to 7817?

 

Depends on whether you want a snaphead riveted tender or a flush riveted tender, or you want a shirtbutton or G W R or G crest W.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Miss Prism

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

No.

 

Or yes, if you have 100k upfront to spare.

Only 100K - I reckon that's an underestimate when you consider the total costs against what would inevitably be a very limited return in extra sales.

[Amaziii]

I saw in a previous comment that Accurascale plans to cover all the Big Four regions in time. Does Accurascale also have plans to make pre-grouping locos? 

Cheers! ;D 

[Ian Hargrave]

On 25/01/2022 at 18:56, john dew said:

Thanks Miss P

 

Great Western.org is my bible in these matters. It states 7817 was built January 1939 and the first shed allocation was

Newport Croes Newyd.

 

Perhaps  a safer option would be to change my order to 2 Hinton Manor 7818 and change one to 7817?
 

Anthony Manor appealed because I liked the idea of a shirt button

Where the person who quoted Newport sourced his information from mystifies me. Croes Newydd is a district of Wrexham. The nearest Newport is over the border in Salop..aka Shropshire. The shed was always known as Croes Newydd and the source of motive power and maintenance for the northern section of the Cambrian line; others being Oswestry,Machynlleth and Shrewsbury which was 7817 ‘s next shed. I suspect she was probably working out of Oswestry in the interim ,though war work would also have clouded the issue At any rate,she was a Cambrian loco.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Amaziii said:

I saw in a previous comment that Accurascale plans to cover all the Big Four regions in time. Does Accurascale also have plans to make pre-grouping locos? 

Cheers! ;D 

There were four big companies at nationalisation, but six regions afterwards.  A lot more if want pre-grouping.