Mistakes in Russells Books

[kandc_au]

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a written list of the compiled mistakes in the Russell books please?
I have been trying to search here, but cannot find one and believe that there is one floating about.
 

TIA
Khris

[Coach bogie]

Members of the Great Western Study Group complied a list a few years ago. From memory I think it was posted on their Wiki chat site. I have not been a member for several years now, so I do not have access to check.

Mike Wiltshire

Edited February 3, 2021 by Coach bogie

[amandalee]

My copy of A Pictorial record of great westeren wagons has a loose a4 sheet in the back with a list of corrections on it. no saying who didit but ill scan it for you if its useful. Example.....Fig 143 no 42020 was a crocodile M not as stated. Is this what you are after. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by amandalee

[The Fatadder]

I still havent got a copy of that book, just the appendix, but I will be printing this off to file away until I finally get one!

[hmrspaul]

3 hours ago, amandalee said:

My copy of A Pictorial record of great westeren wagons has a loose a4 sheet in the back with a list of corrections on it. no saying who didit but ill scan it for you if its useful. Example.....Fig 143 no 42020 was a crocodile M not as stated. Is this what you are after. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure this came from a review in the HMRS Newsletter half a century ago. Jack Slinn was an important member, setting up and running the photograph service as well as being sometime Secretary and deeply involved with GWR research. Peter T is, of course, still researching. 

 

£2.40 nearly broke the bank, as a student I lived on £5 a week plus £3.25 for accomodation when I bought this from a large bookshop in Liverpool. 

 

Paul

Edited February 3, 2021 by hmrspaul

[Mikkel]

On 2.2.2021 at 02:33, kandc_au said:

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a written list of the compiled mistakes in the Russell books please?
I have been trying to search here, but cannot find one and believe that there is one floating about.
 

TIA
Khris

There are 5 pages of corrections to vol 1 by the GW study group, in their newsletter No. 51, 1996. Not sure about Vol. 2.

[Penrhos1920]

There were then several smaller set of further corrections in subsequent newsletters.

[Steamport Southport]

I bought a second hand copy of Coaches Appendix Volume Two and it had about fifty pages missing!

 

Actually bound like that rather than someone had cut them out. Passed it on to my brother and got a different copy making sure it was complete.

 

 

Jason

[martinT]

On 02/02/2021 at 01:33, kandc_au said:

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a written list of the compiled mistakes in the Russell books please?
I have been trying to search here, but cannot find one and believe that there is one floating about.
 

TIA
Khris

The Great Western Study Group has just published a list of corrections to Parts 1 & 2 of Russell's 'Pictorial Record of GWR Coaches' books. It is in the form of an A5 booklet issued as Pannier Supplement No.1.The list runs to 19 pages (24 in total). Copies have just been sent out to members, but it available to non-members for £3 + P&P (£1 UK). 

 

Visit the Pannier page of the GWSG's website http://www.gwsg.org.uk/  for more details of it & how to obtain a copy.

HTH

Martin

 

 

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, martinT said:

The Great Western Study Group has just published a list of corrections to Parts 1 & 2 of Russell's 'Pictorial Record of GWR Coaches' books. It is in the form of an A5 booklet issued as Pannier Supplement No.1.The list runs to 19 pages (24 in total). Copies have just been sent out to members, but it available to non-members for £3 + P&P (£1 UK). 

 

Visit the Pannier page of the GWSG's website http://www.gwsg.org.uk/  for more details of it & how to obtain a copy.

HTH

Martin

 

 

Sorry, but not as someone who is particularly interested in GWR matters, but is this resource really 19 pages of noting errors? Or is it 24 pages?

 

Or is it as I suspect, a compilation of updated information that has come to hand. For example further dates of some alterations, renumbering and/or reclassifications, withdrawal dates etc?

 

If Russell's books are as inaccurate as suggested, should they be binned? Time for some replacements, WITHOUT these errors?

[martinT]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Sorry, but not as someone who is particularly interested in GWR matters, but is this resource really 19 pages of noting errors? Or is it 24 pages?

Hi Kevin, I'm sorry not to be clear. There are 19 pages of corrections; in addition there is an Introduction page, a front cover (see my illustration), a rear cover giving info about the GWSG, &  2 internal cover pages which are basically blank save for a list of contributors.

 

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Or is it as I suspect, a compilation of updated information that has come to hand. For example further dates of some alterations, renumbering and/or reclassifications, withdrawal dates etc?

A sentence in the Introduction reads: 'This Pannier Supplement brings together a series of arcticles published in the GWSG Newsletter by members ...' (5 names given). So it is a compilation  & if you have the relevant Newsletters no new info. may be forthcoming - but to my mind having all the corrections presented together rather than scattered around old Newsletters is a major advantage!

 

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

If Russell's books are as inaccurate as suggested, should they be binned? Time for some replacements, WITHOUT these errors?

Opinions differ about Russell's books. Undoubtedly they were ground-breaking when they were first published, & he & OPC are due a lot of credit for doing so. However I think it's become apparent that they do have a lot of errors which could have been avoided & their contents are badly organised. Russell specifically thanked John Binney (in his preface) suggesting that he had consulted Binney's original research material (to which he had access). This begs the question why they are so many errors. The Introduction discusses this  & wonders whether pressure from OPC to control costs meant that they were unwilling to make alterations. They were of course venturing into unknown territory in publishing these books which were quite expensive for the time in any case (I remember - it was several years before I could afford them!)

 

Replacements? That's a good idea - but I think the scope of the material available makes the project unlikely to find a publisher! Just look at the amount of information John Lewis has produced for his series of books just on Autotrailers & SRMs. Maybe that shews the way forward - books limited in scope to specific types or periods rather than a wholesome coverage of GWR Coaches as Jim Russell & OPC bravely attempted.

 

Martin

[kevinlms]

On 17/05/2021 at 02:40, martinT said:

Hi Kevin, I'm sorry not to be clear. There are 19 pages of corrections; in addition there is an Introduction page, a front cover (see my illustration), a rear cover giving info about the GWSG, &  2 internal cover pages which are basically blank save for a list of contributors.

 

A sentence in the Introduction reads: 'This Pannier Supplement brings together a series of arcticles published in the GWSG Newsletter by members ...' (5 names given). So it is a compilation  & if you have the relevant Newsletters no new info. may be forthcoming - but to my mind having all the corrections presented together rather than scattered around old Newsletters is a major advantage!

 

Opinions differ about Russell's books. Undoubtedly they were ground-breaking when they were first published, & he & OPC are due a lot of credit for doing so. However I think it's become apparent that they do have a lot of errors which could have been avoided & their contents are badly organised. Russell specifically thanked John Binney (in his preface) suggesting that he had consulted Binney's original research material (to which he had access). This begs the question why they are so many errors. The Introduction discusses this  & wonders whether pressure from OPC to control costs meant that they were unwilling to make alterations. They were of course venturing into unknown territory in publishing these books which were quite expensive for the time in any case (I remember - it was several years before I could afford them!)

 

Replacements? That's a good idea - but I think the scope of the material available makes the project unlikely to find a publisher! Just look at the amount of information John Lewis has produced for his series of books just on Autotrailers & SRMs. Maybe that shews the way forward - books limited in scope to specific types or periods rather than a wholesome coverage of GWR Coaches as Jim Russell & OPC bravely attempted.

 

Martin

Thanks for the clarification, Martin. That makes sense, to have the updates in one place.

 

My guess is that it is indeed impossible to cover a topic like 'GWR Coaches' in a single volume, the history is just way too complex.

 

Obviously that is why Jenkinson & Essery did a later 3 volume version of 'LMS Coaches' to replace the earlier single volume.

 

Not withstanding, further information will invariably come to hand, soon after you publish.